Tobacco and Vapes Bill

Lord Berkeley Excerpts

2nd reading
Wednesday 23rd April 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Berkeley (Lab)]

My Lords, this has been a fascinating debate. I have reflected on the number of Peers, some of them probably as old as me if not older, who have recounted the story of having to survive in homes full of cigar or cigarette smoke. My noble friend Lord Faulkner of Worcester spoke about the unpleasant atmosphere in many pubs.

Noble Lords will remember—if they can—the Underground, when one coach in a train of seven coaches was non-smoking. In the others you had to survive the smoke in a very unpleasant atmosphere. It is well to remember that smoking kills, inevitably, and it costs a lot of money, as my noble friend Lady Carberry told us.

For me, this Bill is welcome and is not before time, but I want to say a word or two about enforcement, which the noble Lord, Lord Murray, and many other noble Lords mentioned. Corner shops are very important parts of our community, but in the last 10 years they have changed their methods of trading quite significantly, largely due to Covid. Ten years ago, how many of us went into one and bought a paper—for £5 or whatever it costs these days—with a credit card? We did not. We paid cash. I know many shops which will now not accept cash; they will only accept credit cards. There is no reason why the banks which issue these cards should not also be able to incorporate some kind of age recognition into them. There must be a way of doing this which is not going to cost a lot of money, although it is much easier to say that it cannot be done—and, to be fair, the tobacco industry has probably worked very hard on many noble Lords to say that this Bill is unnecessary and will make you fat, as the noble Lord, Lord Crisp, said.

I want to raise two issues for the benefit of my noble friend the Minister. These may seem quite small, but I think they are significant. First, Clause 46 makes the Crown immune from prosecution. There are many clauses in legislation which have the same wording because the Crown is supposed to be kept clear of this sort of thing. Clause 46(2) says:

“Nothing in this Part or regulations made under it makes the Crown criminally liable”.


Why should the Crown get away with it? It is not that the Crown is very likely to be selling under-age cannabis or tobacco or anything else, but you could see a situation where members of the Crown let people go round their palaces with a café at the end selling things. If they are not allowed to sell tobacco, so be it, but Prince Andrew might have a party one night and start selling cannabis or something like that. I do not see why the Crown should be exempt. If my noble friend is not able to answer this today, I am sure that she can write to me and we can have a bit of a discussion about it.

Finally, on shipping, Clause 157 says that the Bill applies under the Merchant Shipping Act 1995, which I think is even thicker than this Bill. It does not say where these products can be bought or sold on a ship in relation to where the ship is going. Does it have to have a UK flag, or could it be registered in Guatemala or somewhere? Where is it travelling from? Can the law be enforced in a British port? If it is a Dover to Calais ship, is it permitted to smoke until halfway across the channel and not in the other half? I am sure there is an answer—if we studied the Merchant Shipping Act for the next week, we would probably find out. I am sure that the Minister will be able to come back to me on this at some stage.

To conclude, I think this is a really good Bill. There are things to talk about at the next stages, but I congratulate the Government on bringing it forward.