Ukraine

Lord Berkeley Excerpts

Thursday 29th February 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, nothing surprises or shocks us in what Mr Putin articulates. It is not the first time he has made such comments. It is irresponsible and it is wrong. The use, or threatened use, of such weapons is, frankly, quite deplorable. Whether he is saying this with intent or as a shock tactic, I cannot speculate. I am sure I speak for everyone in your Lordships’ House when I say that the last thing anyone wants to hear right now are threats to use such weapons.

What we have seen over the years, from the Cold War and the subsequent relationships that developed positively during Mr Gorbachev’s era, is a recognition that the deterrent value of those weapons was clear. We pursued them in that light. Mr Putin could reflect on his own history, and that of Russia, to see that the only way forward is to ensure that he pulls back now, brings about peace on the continent, and stops the war on Ukraine.

[Lord Berkeley (Lab)]

My Lords, I congratulate the Minister on the effort that he and the Government are making to help Ukraine. In addition to what we have been so rightly doing to help Ukraine, we have to recognise the damage and disaster that has been caused in many parts of the country, and the fact that an awful lot of voluntary work is going on in this country to try to provide support. I will name just two organisations, which I happen to be involved with. The first is the Global Ukraine Rail Task Force, which tries to raise money in Europe, here in the UK and in the United States. Network Rail has contributed to it. It has been very helpful to keep the railways going, because they are absolutely essential in Ukraine for passengers and freight—it is a very big country.

It is difficult to give the Ukrainians bits of second-hand railway goods because we have different gauges and everything, but they have worked out that they want second-hand buses and coaches and old railway equipment, which they can use as shelters, medical centres, play areas and things like that, to try to replace what has been damaged. Can the Minister encourage the railway and bus companies to look into sending second-hand equipment that is no longer used to Ukraine to help it rebuild its communities, in addition to resisting all this horrible bombing?

There is effectively a war in Europe, and one problem that I hope the Minister can deal with is that it is very difficult to get things across frontiers and to get some of the permissions that are needed to get into Ukraine. Anything he can do to help will enable organisations like SHAP—the Swindon Humanitarian Aid Partnership —to get this equipment there and try to provide voluntary support for the people in Ukraine whose buildings have been destroyed. I hope the Minister can do something on that.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I appreciate the noble Lord’s valuable insights from transport. He touched on an important issue: it is about not just the transport system but the recreational element. A whole generation of children in Ukraine is impacted, so what more can be added?

I recall my first visit to Poland when the war started. There were some valuable examples of what civil society and community groups were doing. The noble Lord may recall that the structures of the international system, particularly the UN bodies, were not equipped or set up to deal with the kind of conflict we were seeing in Ukraine. No one desired such a conflict to happen. While that was being stood up, it was the community groups that were providing vital links. I remember a Polish charity group going in and saying, “We load up our minibus, we take whatever we can, we go as far as we can and then we unload where we can”. That reflected the spirit of community, which is very much in evidence here in the United Kingdom.

Of course I will look into this. There are, of course, challenges of security, and there remain real concerns with, and challenges in, attempts at reconstruction within Ukraine, which the UK has made. As we heard earlier from my noble friend, Mr Putin leaves no stone unturned not just to threaten but to act, as he has done with missiles recently in Kyiv. No part of Ukraine is safe from Mr Putin’s war machinery. But of course we remain committed, which is why we hosted the recovery and reconstruction conference. One hopes this dreadful war is brought to an end by Russia stopping it and Ukraine again being an independent sovereign state with all its territory. As this evolves, we can look to see how we can best support transport infrastructure and explore recreational support for the next generation of Ukrainians as well.