Digital Economy Bill

Debate between Lord Ashton of Hyde and Lord Collins of Highbury

Ping Pong (Hansard): House of Lords
Thursday 27th April 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Clement-Jones (LD)]

My Lords, I have no doubt that the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, will want to give a more substantive response since this was fundamentally an opposition amendment, but it was supported strongly on these Benches. I accept that the Minister has tried to incorporate the spirit of the original amendment in this amendment coming from the Commons. He made a number of detailed points about objections to the drafting of the original amendment, but there is one thundering great hole in the amendment as brought forward by him, which is that there is no obligation on providers to comply with the code of practice once it comes into force. It is nakedly a voluntary code rather than any code that is able to be enforced by the Secretary of State. That is the major difference between the amendment that this House passed and that which has now come forward.

The Minister mentioned the internet safety strategy and the work being done on it. Many of us are convinced that when the work on that is done the need for an enforcement power in such a code of conduct will become clear. Will the Minister assure us that enforcement will be considered as part of the internet safety strategy and that, if the overwhelming body of evidence is that such a form of compliance is needed, the Government will come forward with amendments?

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, I will not delay the House but I want to repeat what the noble Lord, Lord Clement-Jones, has just said because the point about no enforcement and no sanctions is important. I recognise the words of the Minister in terms of reflecting the spirit and intent of our original amendment, and I think that that is what the government Motion now seeks to do. It will give notice to the social networks that failure to comply will result in further government action. Like the noble Lord, Lord Clement-Jones, I hope that the Minister will be able to respond positively, in particular on the internet strategy review.

In conclusion, our examination of these issues has been extremely good in the Lords both in Committee and on Report. We now have a clear policy which gives notice to the social networks that we want to ensure that proper standards are maintained and that action will be taken when evidence of abuse is found. It should not be a matter of days or weeks, which has been the case, before offensive material is taken down. We have seen evidence of the horrendous things that have been put up on social networks in the US and Thailand, so we want to ensure that the networks understand fully the gravity of the situation.

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

My Lords, I am grateful for the remarks of noble Lords and I shall start by responding to the last comments made by the noble Lord, Lord Collins. I think that the social media companies are in absolutely no doubt about the Government’s determination to review what they do and make sure that they live up to their responsibilities. We are all agreed on that and we realise that even when something is technically lawful, it can be very damaging and unpleasant. Anything that sets out to humiliate people has no place in our society. I of course understand why some noble Lords are disappointed that the code of practice is not mandatory, but we should have confidence that it will make a difference if, as I have suggested, both we and the social media companies take it seriously. The code of practice will clearly set out our expectations of social media providers and it is in the interests of a site to be responsible with regard to online safety. It is critical for the future of sites that their users should trust them and that they protect the health of their brand.

I accept that there has been a lot of talk about the internet safety strategy. We have not ruled anything out of the strategy and we have heard the clear views of the House. I can say that we will consider carefully the points which have been raised in the development of the strategy and we will welcome contributions from noble Lords and other interested parties. I shall repeat: my department has absolutely taken on board the views of the House along with those of many other stakeholders in relation to social media companies and we will see what comes of that. The fact is that if this amendment is accepted, the code must and will be produced, and I am convinced that it will have a beneficial effect.

Digital Economy Bill

Debate between Lord Ashton of Hyde and Lord Collins of Highbury

Report: 3rd sitting (Hansard - continued): House of Lords
Wednesday 29th March 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Collins of Highbury]

I have tabled Amendment 33ZPA, which deals explicitly with the Delegated Powers Committee’s recommendation. As the Minister will know, immediately on seeing the government amendments I approached him and wanted a discussion, because I was anxious that items were suddenly being put in the Bill of which no mention had been made before. We had had amendments relating to the Government’s willingness to implement the GDPR and they were reluctant to address that issue in the Bill, but suddenly the GDPR was to come into force on 18 May and we needed time to ensure that charges could be properly accommodated. I was concerned that suddenly all this was happening. The Minister wrote to me after our meeting and I was happy to learn that the Delegated Powers Committee had come up with the same concerns as me.

I want to be clear that my amendment specifically picks up the words of the committee. This is not simply about covering costs—I am sure that the Minister will reassure us about that; it is also about creep. It is about whether the Government will ask the ICO to undertake other things for which charges will suddenly become applicable, as was referenced in the report. It cited,

“broadly similar legislation enabling the Government to prescribe enhanced court fees, which they are relying on to introduce large increases in probate fees”.

We know that the ICO wants to extend its powers—quite rightly in some respects—but it should not do so without proper parliamentary scrutiny. I want the Minister to give me a clear assurance that the specific example given by the committee will not be applicable in relation to these charges. The “limited flexibility” of which he spoke gives the Government much wider powers. Why do they need limited flexibility when they are introducing a charging regime to meet the requirements of the GDPR and the specified responsibilities of the ICO? If they are to go beyond that and say that they need wriggle room in the form of what are described as limited powers, Parliament deserves the opportunity properly to scrutinise such changes. I reserve the option of tabling amendments at Third Reading that bring forward the recommendations of the Delegated Powers Committee. I hope that the Minister can reassure me about the limited power or wriggle room that he says the Government need. I want to know why they need it.

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

My Lords, I listened with interest and a certain amount of apprehension to this debate and the contributions made by noble Lords. As I said in my opening remarks, the Government intend to bring forward at Third Reading amendments to address the intentions of Amendments 33ZR, 33ZS, 33ZT and 33ZV tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Clement-Jones, and the noble Baroness, Lady Hamwee.

I listened to the arguments in support of Amendments 33ZN, 33ZP and 33ZPA. However, we need the existing flexibility in the government amendments because there is rapid development in the digital economy. That means that the role of the data protection regulator is continually evolving. We want to allow flexibility to manage the period of transition as the ICO takes on additional responsibilities under the forthcoming GDPR. For example, in our amendment we specifically refer to discounts to certain organisations.

I understand why noble Lords are worried about giving additional powers to the ICO. The noble Lord, Lord Collins, talked about “creep” on this. I reassure noble Lords that this will be on a full cost recovery basis and it is in line with the current charging regime, so the fees will be determined by the size and turnover of the organisation, as I said at the beginning. We will consult data controllers on the shape of the new regime before laying regulations to introduce new charges. I repeat that the new model will continue to be based on the full cost recovery principle. On parliamentary scrutiny, the affirmative procedure will allow that scrutiny in Parliament.

The other reason for this is that the ICO fees regime needs to be in place by 1 April, ahead of the GDPR. In advance of this, it will be necessary to consult organisations on the proposed fees levels and lay the fees regulations in sufficient time for the start of the 2018-19 financial year. We would not be able to do that in the third Session.

To answer the noble Lord, Lord Clement-Jones, on the language in the proposed new section, the nature of the ICO role is changing with the changes in electronic communications—for example, in the regulation on cookies. We need some flexibility without the restrictive language of the noble Lord’s amendment.

I hope noble Lords will agree that subjecting regulations made under these powers to consultation and the affirmative procedure offers the necessary safeguards to ensure the powers are used proportionately. I therefore respectfully ask that the noble Lord withdraws the amendment.

[Lord Collins of Highbury]

Bearing in mind the comments I made, would the Minister take the opportunity to meet me and other interested Peers before Third Reading so that we can be clear and reassured that those points are covered by the government amendments?

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

It is always a pleasure to meet the noble Lord and I give that undertaking.

Gambling: Young People

Debate between Lord Ashton of Hyde and Lord Collins of Highbury

Thursday 12th January 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

My Lords, of course I share the right reverend Prelate’s concern that there might be risks attached to social gaming. These gambling-style games were considered in detail by the commission in 2015, which concluded that there was no compelling reason to impose additional regulation on the social gaming sector, particularly given that it is subject to extensive consumer protection, such as the Consumer Rights Act. As far as advertising is concerned, there are strict controls over advertising and the content of gambling advertisements already. Gambling advertising was part of the recent call for evidence in the gambling review for the first time, so we await that evidence.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, I welcome the Minister’s reference to the triennial review, which, despite my scepticism, has actually started. One of the problems with that review, which he has alluded to, is that it talks about gambling limits in certain gambling premises, but one can walk into any premises and put down any amount of money on a mobile phone. Surely it is time for the Government to have a bit of joined-up thinking here and see what the implications are of this absolutely unregulated level of gambling, which affects not just children but everyone in our society.

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

My Lords, the noble Lord is right that the gambling review was initiated in October last year—despite his scepticism, as he says, so I am glad that he acknowledges that. He is also right to draw attention to the possibilities of online gambling. The gambling review has always looked at different things—namely, the stakes, prizes, number and locations of gaming machines. As I have already said, this year we added advertising to that. The view of the Gambling Commission, which is the statutory adviser to the Government on gambling, is that the current requirements for age verification are effective in preventing underage gambling, but we keep the regulation of online gambling under review and will not hesitate to take action if it is needed to protect people from gambling-related harm.

Gambling

Debate between Lord Ashton of Hyde and Lord Collins of Highbury

Thursday 20th October 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, one mechanism that the Government have in place to try to offer some sort of control over what goes on in the high street is the triennial review of betting limits. A number of noble Lords, including me, have asked the Government what has happened to the review, since it was due over 18 months ago and could possibly take another 12 months. Do the Government intend to publish or undertake the review soon? Or perhaps they intend to rename it. I think we are too late to call it quadrennial, but perhaps it could be sexennial.

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

My Lords, perhaps I ought to point out to the noble Lord the position on the triennial review. The Gambling Act was introduced by the Labour Government in 2005 and in the following five years no triennial review was held by the Labour Government. The coalition Government held a triennial review in 2013, and the Conservative Government will hold a triennial review in 2016.

Anti-corruption: Beneficial Ownership Registration

Debate between Lord Ashton of Hyde and Lord Collins of Highbury

Thursday 26th May 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Collins of Highbury]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what steps they have taken following the anti-corruption summit to address the estimated $1 trillion a year lost to poor countries through illicit capital flows and through tax avoidance and crime, and whether they have a timeline for creating registers of beneficial ownership in the Overseas Territories.

[Lord Ashton of Hyde (Con)]

My Lords, through our G8 presidency in 2013 and the Prime Minister’s recent anti-corruption summit, the UK has been at the forefront of international efforts to tackle corruption and tax evasion, and to help developing countries to do the same. All the UK’s Overseas Territories and Crown dependencies have agreed to provide UK law enforcement and tax agencies with full access to company beneficial-ownership information in their jurisdictions.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

I thank the noble Lord for that progress report, but of course transparency is the key to tackling corruption. How can we demonstrate our leadership in the battle against corruption when our territories are the biggest facilitators of it? Public registers are required. We have only to look down the river at the St George Wharf Tower; two-thirds of it is in foreign ownership and a quarter is held through offshore companies based in tax havens. Will the Minister outline the steps that we will be taking to get full transparency and what timetable is to be set by the Government so that the Overseas Territories will be required to have public registers? Failure to do so will result in even more monuments to this corruption on our riverfront.

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

My Lords, there are two parts to the question: what are we doing about public registers of beneficial ownerships, particularly in our Overseas Territories? First, we should acknowledge that we made huge progress in getting them to have registers at all in some cases. All the Overseas Territories and Crown dependencies will share information with our tax and law enforcement agencies. As regards the tower mentioned by the noble Lord, the Prime Minister made a commitment at the anti-corruption summit that we will have the first public register of foreign-owned companies owning property in this country, and that will apply not only to new but to existing ownership by foreign-owned companies. It will also apply to a public register of public contracting. Lastly, I should say that, as a result of the anti-corruption summit, 12 countries have either agreed or are agreeing to have public registers.

Tax Treaties: Developing Countries

Debate between Lord Ashton of Hyde and Lord Collins of Highbury

Thursday 25th February 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

Of course, we are trying to increase transparency. As the noble Lord will know, in our presidency of the G8, we led on international anti-tax evasion measures and we continue to work with the OECD. We were the first to sign the agreement for international exchange of information. As far as the anti-corruption summit is concerned, that is certainly something we will do. One of the problems, however, is that just increasing taxes in developing countries is not a silver bullet because of corruption: the tax that is raised has to go to the right places.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, if there is one area that requires joined-up government, it is this. Of course, the Department for International Development, with its 0.7% budget, should be involved in these discussions because, as in the case of Malawi, you could be taking away with one hand and putting in with the other. Has DfID been involved in all these negotiations and will they be linked to the delivery of the sustainable development goals? Never mind the Rhodes statue—surely it is time that the Malawi agreement came falling down.

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

DfID is involved in the consultations that the Treasury has every year on which countries should be involved and on new taxation agreements to be brought forward. It holds discussions on which goals should be taken forward, but the department is not involved in the individual negotiation of tax treaties, which is for the experts on taxation in the Treasury. It also helps to pay for tax education in developing countries, and the Government have doubled the amount that they are prepared to spend on this through DfID. We think development aid should be controlled and administered through DfID, subject to proper governance arrangements in keeping with our development strategy.