Daesh in Syria and Iraq

Lord Alton of Liverpool Excerpts

Wednesday 16th December 2015 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, we welcome the fact that Russia was prepared to engage in the Vienna talks. Clearly, how its views on the position of Assad may or may not change is a matter of further consideration. That makes negotiations perhaps a little more testing than might otherwise be the case, but clearly it is important that those talks continue. We have made it clear throughout that Assad cannot remain in power because he is a recruiting sergeant for Daesh’s very existence, in that people feel that they have to tolerate Daesh and work with it. With regard to convoys, as I mentioned earlier, air strikes can be used specifically not only to target the oil production facilities but to disrupt the transport of materials—not only oil but things such as weaponry. As regards the border crossing, it is important that we continue to liaise with our colleagues in Turkey as much as possible to maintain the sanctions regime which has been imposed. I confirm that we are looking very closely at how the pledging conference will approach the issue of refugees. When I was in Iraq, I visited a refugee camp and was made aware at first hand of the vast challenge ahead. Those who are not in the camps will also need much assistance from all of us.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)]

My Lords, the noble Baroness and the Statement rightly referred to the terrible depredations occurring in Syria and the egregious violations of human rights. Earlier today, in a Written reply, the noble Baroness stated:

“We are not submitting any evidence of possible genocide against Yezidis and Christians to international courts, nor have we been asked to”.

Will the noble Baroness reflect on that reply and reconsider the Government’s position, and at least perhaps open discussions with the International Criminal Court? If the difference that marks us out from Daesh and those involved in these atrocities is that we believe in upholding the rule of law, is it not important to emphasise that a Nuremberg moment will come for those responsible for the mass graves—she may have seen them when she visited Sinjar recently—where Yazidi women who had been raped were then killed, and the other examples of beheadings, crucifixions and the many atrocities which were outlined in our recent debate in your Lordships’ House? One day, all that must have a day of reckoning.

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, first, I make it clear that I was not close to Sinjar itself. I was in Erbil when the assault was launched. I would like to make that clear. With regard to genocide, as I have mentioned before, we condemn utterly those who carry out mass killings. There is no doubt about that. There is also the fact that it is for courts to determine whether that falls within the legal definition of genocide. We will continue to monitor exactly how the ICC is dealing with these cases, or not. I understand that, as the matter stands, Fatou Bensouda, the chief prosecutor, has determined not to take these matters forward. However, I will check whether there has been any change to that position. I have made it clear in the work that I have done on preventing sexual violence in conflict that we must not tolerate impunity, and therefore, if the ICC is unable to act, I hope that we can work throughout the international community to find another way of providing justice to those who have suffered at the hands of Daesh—the Yazidis, the Syriacs and the other small communities forming the component parts across Iraq and Syria—because all of them deserve our respect and help.