Draft Social Security (Contributions) (Amendment No. 2) Regulations 2022

Liz Twist Excerpts

Monday 28th March 2022 General Committees

[Lucy Frazer]

I thank my hon. Friend for his question. Those women are not excluded; they just pay a lower rate, so they are included in the NICs scheme. I do not think that they would think that they are excluded. There is nothing to suggest that they were excluded, or that a particular category of women, men or anybody were excluded, so I do not think they will believe they were excluded. Payroll systems are set to include them, and the Government have said on gov.uk that the system is coming in, so the expectation is that they will be included.

As for who the women are, they will be identifiable through various payroll systems, and payroll operators will have to ensure they pay the right amount. If we did not bring in the draft measure, it would be difficult, because we would then have to instruct payroll operators to change their systems, because they are now set up to include that category of women, so it would be more administratively difficult to take them out than to include them.

I should also highlight that this measure is for only a year, because they will be automatically included next year in any event, when the levy appears on people’s payroll.

All that we are doing with this measure is ensuring that this group of women, who were excluded through an inadvertent error, are now included, as we had always intended.

[Liz Twist (Blaydon) (Lab)]

Will the Minister give way?

[Lucy Frazer]

I will now conclude.

It is vital that our NHS recovers from the pandemic and that our social care system benefits from much-needed reform as soon as possible. This measure contributes to that end and I commend it to the Committee.

--- Later in debate ---

[Brendan O'Hara]

That is an excellent idea. I do not see why the Government would look to penalise this tiny number—a minuscule group, as the Minister said—once again. One might have hoped, having put them through the mill with such dreadful communication about why their pensions were being treated in the way they were, that the Government had learnt from that awful experience, but clearly they have not.

[Liz Twist]

Given the experiences of those who were not notified, does the hon. Gentleman agree that it is not enough to say that the computer systems have been upgraded and that the website has been updated? People need individual information about how they have been treated.

[Brendan O'Hara]

The hon. Lady is absolutely correct. At the very least, that group of women are owed by the Government. It is a basic courtesy to notify them of what is about to happen to them. I strongly advise the Minister to accept the suggestion of the hon. Member for Birmingham, Selly Oak: for this one year, set aside this tiny amount of money from a minuscule cohort of women, as some sort of apology for the appalling way in which they have been treated by the Government time and time again.