Speaker’s Statement

Debate between Liz Saville Roberts and Baroness Winterton of Doncaster

Wednesday 21st February 2024 Commons Chamber

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

I am extremely sorry. I took it on the voices. I was quite clear where we were. [Interruption.] The whole thing would have been considerably clearer if the Government had not withdrawn at that position.

[Liz Saville Roberts (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC)]

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. I wonder if the House has considered how this looks to people outside. It looks like chicanery. I rise to ask a question on behalf of the small parties. What precedent has been set today in the way this Opposition day has been handled? How can we ever have faith in the future that our voices and our votes will actually be heard, or will it always be about the two big parties here?

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

I think that the hon. Lady heard what Mr Speaker said—that he intends to talk with people. I also understand that the—

Strikes (Minimum Service Levels) Bill

Debate between Liz Saville Roberts and Baroness Winterton of Doncaster

Committee stage
Monday 30th January 2023 Commons Chamber

[The Chairman of Ways and Means (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

I call Liz Saville Roberts.

[Liz Saville Roberts]

Diolch yn fawr iawn, Dame Rosie. I refer hon. Members to my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests: I am the co-chair of the justice unions parliamentary group. I am not employed by it and do not receive a penny from it, but I still have to declare it. It would be very useful if other hon. Members had to declare their support from employers as well.

I rise to speak to amendment 76 and new clause 3 in my name. It is telling that amendment 76 is one among many amendments—including those tabled by SNP colleagues and by the hon. Member for Cynon Valley (Beth Winter)—designed to prevent the UK Government from interfering with primary legislation passed by Senedd Cymru or the Scottish Parliament. Powers to amend or revoke workers’ rights legislation on a whim have no place in a modern democratic society. The protections that my amendments would afford are critical in a period when it is becoming increasingly clear not only that devolution is under attack from Westminster, but that our fundamental rights and freedoms as citizens are not safe from an increasingly authoritarian Government in Westminster.

New clause 3 would require the UK Government to conduct an impact assessment of the effect of the Bill on industrial relations in Wales. Actually, it does not go as far as the amendments tabled by the hon. Member for Cynon Valley. It seems a very reasonable request to see what the effect of this legislation is on a sister Parliament in the United Kingdom. The assessment under the new clause would have

“particular reference to the intended outcomes of the Social Partnership and Public Procurement (Wales) Bill”.

That Bill, which is currently being debated in the Senedd, will place a duty on certain public bodies to work with trade unions when setting and delivering on wellbeing objectives.

In Wales, we seek to include workers in the making of the very public policy decisions that will have an effect on their working lives. We want to chart a different path: one whereby workers are empowered and valued, not bullied as they are by Westminster. That brings us to the very heart of the question why the right to strike is so important. Giving workers the opportunity and the choice to be represented collectively in the work environment by a trade union enables them to be heard and to bargain collectively. Okay, those are good words, but why do they actually matter? They matter because this is the key tool for improving living standards and tackling inequality. That is especially important in a country like Wales, where sadly a third of children are growing up in poverty.

We have a duty to tackle inequality and poverty. Undermining the effectiveness of industrial action at a time when the cost of living crisis is biting will only perpetuate the cruel poverty cycle that has trapped so many people in so many communities. Amplifying workers’ voices can also bring significant benefits to employers, as it can be a way of identifying issues at an early stage and ensuring that the valuable insights that workers have into how services can be improved are heard and acted on. This is about facilitating meaningful discussions and negotiations that lead to real solutions—which is not to say that such an approach is always easy, but in the long term it is far more effective than actively sowing the seeds of discord between workers and their employers.

Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Bill

Debate between Liz Saville Roberts and Baroness Winterton of Doncaster

3rd reading
Monday 5th July 2021 Commons Chamber

[Liz Saville Roberts (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC)]

I rise to speak as co-chair of the justice unions parliamentary group. There is an awful lot that I would like to say about this Bill, but unfortunately I have to restrict my comments to amendment 47.

The amendment seeks to correct an anomaly in the legislation brought by the hon. Member for Rhondda (Chris Bryant) in his Assaults on Emergency Workers (Offences) Act 2018, whereby the only members of prison staff included in the protected category of emergency workers are prison officers and some healthcare workers, while other prison workers, such as teachers or instructors, are not protected. That is simply unfair and increases the risks for those staff: it effectively paints a target on their backs because prisoners are well aware of the law and know that the penalties for attacking a prison officer are way more severe than those for attacking the teacher who might be standing next to them.

The 2019 “Safe Inside” survey conducted by the Joint Unions in Prisons Alliance showed that all prison staff—not just prison officers, but prison educators and teachers as well—are subjected to shocking levels of violence and are routinely exposed to harmful drugs. More than a quarter of staff reported having been a victim of physical violence in the last 12 months. Of those, 14% said that they had been assaulted more than 10 times in that period.

The youth estate, for example, often houses children who are locked up hundreds of miles from family and support. The resulting strain on mental health is a contributing factor towards violence against staff. Of course, in Wales, as education is devolved, things run differently so the Bill’s impact will be felt differently, which is something my hon. Friend the Member for Arfon (Hywel Williams) will raise later.

Here is one horrific example from an educator in a young offender institution:

“I turned to press the radio and as I did so I felt the young offender’s arms around my neck and he put me in a headlock and began to strangle me, I managed to say “Assistance” on the radio, but before I could say my location, he had my arm above my head to stop me calling for help, he dragged me down to the ground, he continued to strangle me with his left arm and he hit me repeatedly in the head with the other. As he was doing so, he said he had mental health issues. It felt like longer but, I think the officers arrived in approximately five minutes after the incident began and physically removed him from me.”

No teacher, educator or instructor should be expected to work in an environment where terrifying assaults like those are not treated with the same severity as those against prison officers. For that reason, I urge all Members to show those brave front-line public servants that we prioritise their safety as emergency workers, too.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

I call Steve Brine, who has 90 seconds.

Climate and Ecological Emergency: UK’s Response

Debate between Liz Saville Roberts and Baroness Winterton of Doncaster

Tuesday 9th February 2021 Commons Chamber

[Liz Saville Roberts (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC) [V]]

Diolch yn fawr, Dirprwy Lefarydd. It is an honour for me to work today in a cross-party spirit with the hon. Member for Brighton, Pavilion (Caroline Lucas). I am sure that we are all trying to raise the sense of urgency by the best means we can and use this House and this Chamber to good effect.

Climate change and ecosystem degradation are already a pressing reality in Wales, from changing weather patterns to biodiversity loss, with a 2019 report concluding that 666 species are threatened with extinction and 73 have been lost already. It is clear that to address this issue effectively and quickly, we need to mobilise unprecedented levels of innovation and investment across our economy and society.

Wales is a nation committed to transition, with the principle of sustainable development written into our constitution, but to bring about real transition, the UK also has to change. That means devolving and decentralising power, rather than centralising the decision making and resources necessary for that transition. Critically, that means increased economic and borrowing powers for the Government of Wales to finance the pivotal transition with the rapidity that our climate and environment demand.

I welcome this debate, and I hope that the UK Government will consider how best to support this transition across all four nations of the UK, particularly in the upcoming Budget. No nation in the world can manage climate change alone, but neither can centralised command and control alone bring about the change we need.

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

Before I call the Minister, I should say that there have been a number of contributions, and it needs to be noted that this has left the Minister with a very short amount of time to respond; she only has six minutes.

Coronavirus Business Interruption Loan Scheme

Debate between Liz Saville Roberts and Baroness Winterton of Doncaster

Thursday 5th November 2020 Commons Chamber

[Liz Saville Roberts (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Midlothian (Owen Thompson) on securing this debate. I was extremely interested to hear some of the contribution of the hon. Member for Thirsk and Malton (Kevin Hollinrake), particularly the idea of increasing the local stake and interest of banks in communities. It would be really useful to take that forward.

Covid-19 continues to cast a dark shadow over all four nations of the UK, blighting lives and businesses. This debate is an important moment to consider the ramifications, legacy and lessons from one of the key economic measures that have been our response to the virus. Nearly 1,700 coronavirus business interruption loans have been provided to businesses in Wales, totalling approximately £374 million in much-needed support to our economy. This represents one aspect of a broader intervention by not only the UK Government but the Welsh Government and local authorities, who have directed more than £1.6 billion of public support in the form of grants and reliefs to Welsh businesses. Indeed, the resilience and effectiveness of the devolved Governments can perhaps be compared with the Westminster record, which has shown itself on occasion to be prioritising headlines over competency. Westminster has exacerbated rather than eased confusion among businesses, and I refer to the furlough scheme and the lack of transparency in Government contracts as stand-out examples.

I want to make a point about the furlough scheme. I have spoken to businesses in the community that are carrying hundreds of thousands of pounds of debt, which is relevant to what we are discussing today. Because they were unsure what was going to happen with the furlough scheme, they put in place the necessary steps to start making staff redundant, and those processes have started. So there is an effect when these decisions are made late in the day.

It is increasingly clear that covid-19 is no equaliser, either as a deadly disease or in its wider socioeconomic ramifications. This has created a potent economic legacy, in which the CBIL scheme plays a part. A concern throughout the programme has been accessibility. Unlike in later schemes, CBILS applicants had to certify that they had been adversely affected and, more importantly, were still required to present a borrowing proposal to lenders. That posed a significant challenge for many businesses in Wales, particularly in rural areas such as my constituency of Dwyfor Meirionnydd and in post-industrial communities, particularly across Wales, a country that last year topped the UK table for bank closures.

After 43% of Welsh bank branches were closed between 2015 and 2019, businesses face an uphill challenge, even before covid restrictions, simply to find a financial adviser to inform them on loan applications. The banks’ local knowledge, as well as their stake in local communities, has been eroded, even as they reach out with their digital capacities. Banks had that local interest and local stake in our communities, and we should be looking at the way in which they now operate in the United Kingdom. We have welcomed the improvements in the later schemes, but the Government need to go further and work with lenders to continue to improve accessibility to all covid-19 support schemes for households and businesses in rural and poor communities.

Westminster presumes that the UK is a healthy, mixed economy, but the reality is that in many areas, single industries dominate the local economy. This is particularly true in north and west Wales, where the strongly seasonal tourism, hospitality and leisure sectors dominate. This is the reality of where we are now, and I am not criticising it. I accept it, but if we want to make a difference to those communities in future, we have to realise the implications of covid and how the support measures will work their way through. We had a harsh winter last winter, and we are going into winter now. In the meantime, many businesses in the sector had no choice but to pursue UK and Welsh Government support schemes. They banked on a strong summer season’s earnings that never materialised sufficiently for them to pay off their debts. That was their usual business model. They are usually viable businesses, but this summer they did not have time to make that up. These businesses, and now the whole communities in which they operate, face a bleak future.

It is therefore vital that CBILS should be part of our effort to rebuild, rather than being employed as a stopgap in the immediate crisis. That is why I urge the UK Government to work with lenders and the Welsh Government to lighten the mounting debt burden facing UK businesses. This should include measures such as debt relief for viable Welsh businesses, particularly in badly affected industries such as hospitality. The effect of such an action would be immediate and direct. It would immediately improve businesses’ balance sheets and outlook, give certainty on employment and free up capital that could be set aside to ultimately fund our economic recovery. Although bold, such an intervention on the back of historically low interest rates for Government borrowing would recognise that debt is an economic and political problem, not a health one.

Time is ticking. TheCityUK’s recapitalisation report estimates that, without action now, UK businesses will have £100 billion-worth of toxic debt by March next year, leading to further unemployment and ending in permanent economic scarring in areas that can least afford it. We have a golden opportunity to turn this debt crisis into a vote of confidence in our economy, freeing businesses of an avoidable debt crisis to reinvest in their livelihoods and workers. I urge the Chancellor to seize this opportunity.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

As all our speakers are now here, I remind Members that I would like to start the winding-up speeches at about 3.25 pm, and speeches of between six and seven minutes should make that possible. I call Virginia Crosbie.

Covid-19: UK Border Health Measures

Debate between Liz Saville Roberts and Baroness Winterton of Doncaster

Wednesday 3rd June 2020 Commons Chamber

[Liz Saville Roberts (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC)]

At a time when most European countries are in a much improved condition compared with the UK, the concern of communities in constituencies such as mine is transition by travellers within and between the nations of the UK. I have spoken to the police, representatives of the tourism industry in north Wales and local community leaders, and we all want our attractions and accommodation to open as soon as possible, so we need to be able to provide every assurance to vulnerable residents and their families anxious about the risks implicit in thousands—I emphasise, thousands—of people arriving in their communities the day after internal holiday travel restrictions are lifted in the UK. Will the Home Secretary come back to the House to explain what steps she is taking to ensure that holidays at home are safe for everyone?

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

Order. If we are to get everybody in, we need very short questions and short answers. Just the question please. That is the best way to get through this.

Points of Order

Debate between Liz Saville Roberts and Baroness Winterton of Doncaster

Wednesday 3rd June 2020 Commons Chamber

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

I am very grateful to the hon. Gentleman for clarifying that point. I thought that that might be the case, but it is best to have it on the record.

[Liz Saville Roberts (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC)]

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. The Leader of the House announced yesterday that witnesses to tomorrow’s Domestic Abuse Bill Committee would be able to present evidence remotely if they so wished. He said that he wanted to allay concerns that some people had assumed that this would not be possible.

Nazir Afzal is the national adviser for Wales’s violence against women strategy, and is highly respected as an expert in measures proposed by the Bill. He was invited, at my request, to the Bill Committee, but had to decline as he had been told previously that giving evidence remotely was not possible. Following some discussion yesterday, Mr Afzal was under the impression that he would be able to contribute, so he contacted House staff again, after the announcement made by the Leader of the House that led him to believe that he would be able to commit such evidence. He was told again, however, that it was not possible to give evidence remotely. I must emphasise that this reflects in no way on the staff of the House, who are doing excellent work in challenging circumstances.

I seek advice from you, Madam Deputy Speaker. If it proves impossible for Mr Afzal to give evidence directly to the Bill Committee tomorrow, what should the Leader of the House do to correct the record?

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

I am grateful to the right hon. Lady for giving me notice of her point of order, and she raises an extremely important matter. I understand that the House authorities have urgently been putting measures in place to enable as much virtual witness participation in Committees as possible while at the same time enabling Members to participate in person, and that work is ongoing. I understand that the programming sub-committee for the Bill agreed a witness programme yesterday that includes a representative of Welsh Women’s Aid. It is, of course, regrettable that, on that agreed programme, Mr Afzal will not be able to give oral evidence tomorrow. However, I have no doubt that the Committee would be interested to receive his views in writing. If there are any further points that the right hon. Lady wishes to raise, I am sure that she will find the Committee staff extremely helpful.

In order to allow the safe exit of hon. Members participating in this item of business and the safe arrival of those participating in the next—even though some have already arrived—I will suspend the House for five minutes.