Domestic Ivory Market

Lisa Cameron Excerpts

Monday 6th February 2017 Westminster Hall

[Victoria Borwick]

Absolutely immeasurable—nobody is disputing that. However, the argument that I am making is that we cannot compare a wonderful live elephant, where the value of the tusk is to the elephant, with something that comes from several thousands of years ago. I think the hon. Gentleman is trying to compare apples with pears, and that is the point I am trying to make to him. He does not have to agree with me, but that is the point I am making: that the value of an elephant tusk is to an elephant. What I am talking about are objects that have been around for thousands of years and are now in our museums.

[Dr Lisa Cameron (East Kilbride, Strathaven and Lesmahagow) (SNP)]

The hon. Lady has spoken about priceless antiques being part of our history. Surely the point of today’s debate is that we want elephants not to be part of our history but part of our future?

[Victoria Borwick]

Absolutely—I have no doubt about that at all. There is no dispute there; there is nobody in this Chamber or among those watching who would agree with killing elephants today. The hon. Lady is absolutely right. I am merely saying that, as others have said, when we come up with the new regulations, we must do so very carefully so that we do not destroy what history we do have.

On behalf of the museums I represent in my Kensington constituency, as well as many of the antique dealers, let me say that I genuinely believe—I paraphrase one of the other Members who has spoken—that items of cultural and artistic heritage should continue to be exempt from a trading ban. Our museums rely on, or work with, the trade, in order to continue to develop their own collections. The royal collections have continued to develop and build up their own collections, as was talked about earlier.

The British Museum has stated that restricting the ability of collectors to purchase important works of art would have a detrimental effect on public collections. The British Museum collection includes many significant objects made from ivory from many different cultural traditions, including objects from prehistory that are carved from mammoth ivory and the Lewis chessmen, which are made from walrus ivory. They are integral parts of the museum’s collection and play an indispensable part of its presentation of the history of human cultural achievement.

On this most propitious of days, the Queen’s sapphire jubilee, Members will be familiar with portrait miniatures, which were referred to earlier. These are painted on ivory, as they are viewed as having long-lasting and special properties. We should not be thinking about destroying or not treasuring these things.

--- Later in debate ---

[Dr Lisa Cameron (East Kilbride, Strathaven and Lesmahagow) (SNP)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Brady.

I thank the Petitions Committee and also the public, for the 107,000 signatures. I am sure that members of the public will continue to sign this type of petition until the Government act. My constituents remind me every week of the importance of animal welfare and particularly the importance of preserving and conserving elephant populations. That is important to them, it is important to me and—as we have already heard today from a number of Members—it is important for future generations.

I thank the hon. Member for Thornbury and Yate (Luke Hall) for opening this debate. It is an important and iconic debate at Westminster. I was pleased to speak in the debate last month and it is a privilege to speak again today, because in my mind preventing the ivory trade cannot be spoken about enough in Parliament until action is taken.

As we have heard, 415,000 African elephants remain, but in Mozambique and Tanzania, the decline in elephant populations has been as high as 48% and 60% respectively. As a result, the International Union for Conservation of Nature has concluded that

“Africa’s overall elephant population has seen the worst decline in 25 years, mainly due to poaching”

over the past 10 years. Some people in this House do not like experts, but we should listen to experts on this issue. Experts indicate that wild elephants could be extinct within as little as 20 years. My young children saw elephants for the first time last summer and I will never forget the amazement on their faces. They saw them moving around and saw the baby elephants with their mother, and they still speak of it today. Surely it is incumbent on us to ensure that that opportunity, that experience and that nature is there for future generations. We must preserve this iconic species.

Announcements from the United States and China point to the implementation of complete bans on the ivory trade in those countries. In addition, a number of other nations have implemented restrictions on the sale of ivory, including France and India in 2016, and Hong Kong, forthcoming, in 2021. Will the Minister join me in welcoming those moves, but also give assurances that the United Kingdom will follow suit, to maintain its prominence as a world leader in tackling the issue? It is very concerning that we are no longer at the forefront; sadly, we are lagging behind. Indeed, since the Conservative party’s pledge to press for a total ban on sales in both its 2010 and 2015 manifestos, more than 144,000 African elephants have been poached for their ivory. We seem to be dilly-dallying while the elephants are dying.

[Rob Marris]

I am genuinely on the fence on this. The hon. Lady prayed in aid of experts earlier. What expert evidence does she have that the total ban she seeks will lessen poaching considerably, or at all?

[Dr Cameron]

That excellent question is the crux of the matter, and it is something we need to pursue. In my mind, time is running out and we cannot allow that. We are dilly-dallying. If a near-total ban is not enough to preserve the elephant population, then it is not enough. Those experts are crucial to ensuring that the right decisions are made. The UK public need those decisions to be made and the Government need to follow them. The UK public support a ban on the ivory trade here, so a ban is not against public opinion. In fact, 85% of the public think that buying and selling ivory in the UK should be banned. We must consider the evidence. That is the crux and we must take it forward.

The other issue is sustainable livelihoods in Africa. The elephant brings much to the community and, as a member of the Select Committee on International Development, I am keen to see aid money going towards the conservation of elephant and rhino populations and helping the sustainable development of conservation in African countries.

Consultation takes time, and elephants and rhinoceroses do not have that time. If we want to preserve these species, do we have the time? We must take the lead. I wonder how many elephants have died in the month since I last spoke on the issue. It is so frustrating. If we cannot wait, the Government must act. The elephant cannot become the dodo of our generation under this Government. Is that the legacy this Government want?

The question is: is a near-total ban enough? We need that information. If it is not, then in my mind it is not good enough. It is incumbent on the Minister today not merely to respond, because time is running thin. We need to act. We need to act now, for our children, for their generations and for the human race, because they will forgive nothing less. We have heard today about chess sets, antiques, trinkets and all sorts of things in museums. Yes, we must find a place for those things and try to preserve them, but the crux of today’s argument is that elephants are priceless and we must act.

--- Later in debate ---

[Rachael Maskell (York Central) (Lab/Co-op)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship again in a debate about the domestic ivory trade, Mrs Main. I thank Ellen Cobb for creating the petition, and the 107,000 people who have signed it so far. We know that they speak for the 85% of the population who want this Government to introduce a total ban on the ivory trade, but 8% of people believe that such a ban is already in place, which takes us even further into why the Government need to move on this issue.

We have seen progress in China since we last debated this issue, and I very much concur with the many Members who have talked about us now being followers rather than leaders in this movement. We must pick up the pace, because the pace around this issue is definitely picking up out there in our communities. The world is watching on in horror as these majestic, sensitive—we have heard about the way that they live in families—and beautiful animals are butchered, yet we are no further forward with the Government.

What progress has been made in the 50 days since we last debated this issue? If we take the figure of one elephant being killed every 15 minutes, nearly nine elephants have been slaughtered since this debate began, and 4,811 elephants have lost their lives since I last spoke about this issue. But this is not just about elephants; we must remember the rangers who guard those elephants, and some 17 fellow human beings have lost their lives. We are talking about the most heinous crimes, which are destroying these beautiful animals. There is much frustration across the country, as there has been in the Chamber today and as there is, I understand, in the Cabinet. People are baffled that the Government are not moving further, faster. We want the pace to pick up as a result of today’s debate—I have picked that up from every single contribution—and I trust that the Government will respond.

We all have a responsibility. We have heard how important it is for our generation to ensure that we do everything that we can on our watch to introduce a ban and ensure that it picks up pace. Non-governmental organisations have done amazing work; they have campaigned and raised awareness. It is through that awareness that we become more responsible for our actions here. I want to put on the record my thanks to them.

[Dr Cameron]

Will the hon. Lady join me in congratulating Stop Ivory, which I meant to mention in my speech? It has really put this issue on the agenda and at the core of what it does, and ensured that public support is targeted and the campaign moves from strength to strength.

[Rachael Maskell]

Absolutely, Stop Ivory has done a wonderful job, as have the International Fund for Animal Welfare, the WWF, Tusk and Save the Elephants. There are so many organisations out there—I would not want to draw out one in particular—all working together, I hasten to say, because they have one objective. I think we can see that right across the House we share an objective with them to move forward on the ban.

As we have heard, what we are talking about is getting on top of criminal activity. Surely the Government’s first focus should be to get on top of what is happening, which is happening in conjunction with other criminal gangs, drug rackets and sales of arms. We know that there is an interconnection, and it is so important that we get on top of that criminal activity. A full ban is one way of bringing an end to those gangsters’ deplorable activity. From the statistics we have heard so many times in this place, we know that 200 to 300 tonnes of ivory are being stolen from elephants. That is bringing in £10 billion to £20 billion of blood money. Therefore, shamefully, we are complicit with that agenda if we are not doing absolutely everything in our power to stop the trade.

I want to come on to the consultation, which we have not seen yet, and the date of 1947. We were promised it at the last debate, but another two months have passed and we still do not have it. I know that DEFRA has so much on its agenda at the moment, not least dealing with the EU, but elephants cannot wait for those distractions. We need to put our foot on the accelerator. Let us move on today. Let us resolve in this place to move on and fast-track our approach in taking this forward.

We have seen how fast China has moved. A vaster, much more complex country than ours is talking about putting a stop to the process in just three months and putting a full ban in place in 12 months, so there is no reason why we have to spend months in consultation or thinking about consultations and what questions to ask. Let us just be honest and straight, and let us just move on. I therefore ask the Minister: why the delay on such an important issue? Can we not just get on with bringing in the ban? She will not find opposition across the House or across the country—in fact, people will get behind her. I therefore urge her to move on with that.

I want to look at the date of 1947. I believe I said in the previous debate that it is a rather arbitrary date, so why are we so rigid on that? Why do we not move forward? We have heard about the US and its 100-year rolling programme, which is perhaps one approach that could be taken, but why do we not move to a total ban? We have heard questions such as, “How can you tell what year it was bought?” Carbon dating is one way of doing that, but again I ask the Minister a question she did not manage to answer the previous time I challenged her on this point: can we tell the difference between ivory from 1946 and 1947 or from 1947 and 1948? Where the margins are so fine, why do we complicate things by drawing false demarcations rather than moving forward to a total ban? As we have heard, the human eye cannot necessarily spot the difference, as pieces of ivory are made to look more antique. We also know that paperwork can be forged. It is therefore important that we do not draw arbitrary lines and then try to justify it around the edges. We must have the courage of our convictions to say, “This is wrong,” and to move on from that.