Oral Answers to Questions

Lindsay Hoyle Excerpts

Wednesday 8th December 2021 Commons Chamber

[Brandon Lewis]

As I have said before, we are working through the feedback that we received over the summer and autumn following the engagement that we had with a range of parties with an interest in this matter: victims groups, political parties and other stakeholder groups in civic society. We need to be honest about what is achievable, and about the reality that the current system is not working for people. It is not providing the information and it is not getting to the truth. Our focus is on ensuring that we are able to deliver a package that can get to the truth for families who have waited for far too long.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the Chair of the Select Committee.

[Simon Hoare (North Dorset) (Con)]

My right hon. Friend is right to say that the current position is not working, and I think we should all congratulate him on trying to grapple once again with an issue that has been left lying there for too long. However, if his proposals are to secure any traction, they will have to be compliant with article 2, and we will have to see a fully fleshed out plan for truth and reconciliation. Can he give me assurances on both points?

[Brandon Lewis]

Yes, my hon. Friend is absolutely right. One of the key points that we made in the Command Paper—we will be setting out a lot of the work we are doing on this—was about ensuring that people can see that investigations will continue. There will be an information recovery body that will be able to get to the truth and will have access to information in a way that we have not seen before. We are determined to deliver on that, and we are determined to ensure that what we deliver is article 2 compliant.

[Mr Speaker]

I welcome the shadow Secretary of State to the Dispatch Box.

[Peter Kyle (Hove) (Lab)]

Thank you, Mr Speaker.

The Command Paper was published back in July, and since that time there have been two pauses, or perhaps more. That implies quite directly that the Secretary of State’s thinking is evolving. Can he tell the House, with as much precision as possible: what is the difference between his thinking as it currently stands and his thinking in the paper that was published in July?

[Peter Kyle]

I am grateful to the Secretary of State for his kind comments. I am also grateful for the messages and exchanges that we have had in the run-up to today.

In the spirit of constructive relations, let me share with the Secretary of State a bit of advice that comes from my experience. My last job was as the shadow Victims Minister, and when I was drafting the Victims of Crime and Anti-social Behaviour, Etc (Rights, Entitlements and Related Matters) Bill, I learnt that offering support only works when the victims are in the driving seat. According to the proposals that are currently on the table, the victims are not even in the car. Rather than delaying—the Secretary of State did promise it in the autumn and he did promise it before Christmas, and it has not emerged—can he give a clear assurance, on behalf of the victims, that he has gone back to the drawing board and will only return with proposals once victims are front and centre and in the driving seat? That is what they deserve, and that is what Governments should deliver for them.

[Mr Speaker]

Order. I know that the hon. Gentleman is new to this, but we must hear from some other Front Benchers, and I am not going to make it if we do not have shorter questions and answers.

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[Mr Mark Francois (Rayleigh and Wickford) (Con)]

No one believes you any more.

[Mr Speaker]

Order.

[Martyn Day (Linlithgow and East Falkirk) (SNP)]

5. What progress the Government have made on negotiating revisions to the Northern Ireland protocol.

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[Brandon Lewis]

My right hon. Friend is right: we need to see this resolved quickly, but that obviously requires the European Union to recognise the very real issues on the ground in Northern Ireland and the fact that we need to see movement from the EU to get to a resolution that can work for businesses in Great Britain supplying Northern Ireland, and for Northern Ireland’s citizens.

[Mr Speaker]

I now welcome the new shadow Minister, Tonia Antoniazzi.

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[Scott Benton]

I thank the Minister for his answer and for the steps he is taking to support trade between Great Britain and Northern Ireland. [Interruption.]

[Mr Speaker]

Order. We should know better. When a Member is asking a question, you should not be walking in front of him. That is just not fair.

[Scott Benton]

Thank you, Mr Speaker.

Despite these measures, east-west trade remains disrupted because of the EU’s application of elements within the protocol. I wholeheartedly support the Minister’s efforts to remedy the situation, but if those efforts are unsuccessful, will he confirm that all measures, including invoking article 16, remain on the table?

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[Conor Burns]

We do not need any international comparisons to sell the benefits of Northern Ireland being an integral part of our United Kingdom. It is good for jobs, it is good for health and it is good for prosperity. We are definitely better together.

[Mr Speaker]

Before we come to Prime Minister’s questions—[Interruption.] Mr MacNeil, I do not need any help from you. This is an important message to those people who are watching. Before I come to Prime Minister’s questions, I would like to point out that the British Sign Language interpretation of proceedings is available to watch on parliamentlive.tv.

The Prime Minister was asked—

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[The Prime Minister]

I think the right hon. and learned Gentleman probably missed what I said at the beginning, but I apologise for the impression that has been given that staff in Downing Street take this less than seriously. I am sickened myself and furious about that, but I repeat what I have said to him: I have been repeatedly assured that the rules were not broken—[Interruption.]

[Mr Speaker]

Order.

[Jess Phillips (Birmingham, Yardley) (Lab)]

I apologise, Mr Speaker.

[Mr Speaker]

Right, well let us just have a little less. It is important.

[The Prime Minister]

I have asked the Cabinet Secretary to investigate exactly what happened, and I repeat that there will be consequences for those involved if the rules were broken.

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[The Prime Minister]

Not only that, but the Labour party, and the Labour leader in particular, have played politics throughout this pandemic—[Interruption.]

[Mr Speaker]

Order. I must hear what the Prime Minister is saying, because I need to know what is being said.

[The Prime Minister]

Yes, Mr Speaker. Throughout this pandemic, the Leader of the Opposition in particular has done nothing but play politics to try to muddy the waters, to confuse the public and to cause needless confusion about the guidance. The public have not been so confused and they have not been fooled. They have got on with implementing the guidance, and, in particular, they have got on with showing great commitment to the health of this country by going forward to get vaccinated—[Interruption.]

[Mr Speaker]

Order. Mr Streeting, we had this the week before. I will not have this every week. If you want to be on the Front Bench, behave like you are meant to be there.

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[Ian Blackford]

No dignity from a Prime Minister who quite simply just does not get it. People across these islands have followed the rules, even when it meant missing friends and family, missing births, missing funerals, missing the chance to be beside a loved one in their dying moments. People have sacrificed, at times to the point of breaking, while the UK Government have laughed in our faces.

It is clear that the Prime Minister has lost the support of the public and now even his own Benches. This is not a grin-and-bear-it moment; this is a moment of moral reckoning. Every Member on the Conservative Benches must now decide: is this the man to lead these islands when lives are at stake? It is clear that this Prime Minister intends desperately to cling on to power, and I have nothing left to say to a man whose answers we simply cannot trust, so Mr Speaker—[Interruption.]

[Mr Speaker]

Order. I will hear this question whether the Front Bench like it or not. I am expecting better behaviour. The public out there are questioning this Parliament—do not add to that question.

[Ian Blackford]

They are questioning this Parliament and questioning this Prime Minister that we cannot trust.

It is clear that the Prime Minister is desperately clinging on to power, and I have got nothing left to say to a man who we simply cannot trust. It is time for Members in this House to act. If he does not resign, he must be removed.

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[Several hon. Members rose—]

[Mr Speaker]

Order. There are lots of points of order, but I will take the parliamentary leader of the SNP first.