Tax Credits

Lindsay Hoyle Excerpts

Tuesday 20th October 2015 Commons Chamber

[Several hon. Members rose—]

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

Order. We can only have one Member on their feet at once. We cannot have the whole Chamber trying to get in at once.

[Clive Efford]

I am taking my time, Mr Deputy Speaker.

The Prime Minister and others were asked specifically, “Will you cut tax credits?”, and the answer was no.

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[Several hon. Members rose—]

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

Order. I am going to introduce a two-minute limit, so that everyone will have a chance to speak.

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[Owen Smith]

I have heard this several times over the past few weeks—[Interruption.]

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

Order. I presume that Conservative Members would want to hear their own Front Bencher, and I am sure that the rest of us would like to hear the Labour Front Bencher now.

[Owen Smith]

I am grateful to you, Mr Deputy Speaker.

I have heard this nonsense from the Government several times; I heard it from the Exchequer Secretary earlier today. The truth is that when this variation of tax and child credits came in in 2003-04, the original bill was £19 billion. It went up to about £23 billion under Labour, and then in 2009, after the crash, it went up to £29 billion. Under the Chief Secretary’s Government, it has been £30 billion each year, so the largest bill we have paid for tax credits has been under the Tories. Why is that? It is because the low-welfare, low-tax, high-wage economy that he talks about is a myth—the Tories have failed to deliver it. Instead, we have a tax credit system that is a vital lifeline for working people on low and middle incomes who have relied on it to make ends meet over the past few years and still rely on it. The Tories will be pulling the rug out from under those people if they persist with this policy tonight. They know that none of the measures they have talked about—the personal income tax rise or the childcare provision—will offset the vast losses we have seen. It is an absolute con, just as it was a con from the Prime Minister when he told the country that he was not going to cut any tax credits.

I would like to be able to point to a Government impact assessment that would tell us the truth of this, but it is so thin it is barely worth mentioning. It is about as useful and reliable as a Volkswagen engine test. However, we have not needed an assessment because we have had one from the Chief Secretary’s own Back Benchers. Successive Back Benchers have stood up today and offered their view—their impact assessment—of what this Government are going to do to our constituents, and to Conservative constituents, across this country. I referred earlier to the hon. Member for South Cambridgeshire (Heidi Allen), who made a scintillating speech. I will quote a few words for the delectation of the Chief Secretary. She said that these measures were “betraying who we are”—that is, who the Conservatives are. She said that they would lead to working people having to choose between heating and eating.

The hon. Member for Plymouth, Moor View (Johnny Mercer) gave another excellent speech in which he said that his blue-collar city opposes these reforms. He pleaded with his Front Benchers, as a compassionate Conservative, to think again. The hon. Member for Stafford (Jeremy Lefroy) talked about the impact we would see on carers and on people on low incomes. The hon. Member for Waveney (Peter Aldous) said that as a one-nation Conservative he could not support these reforms without significant mitigation. We heard interventions from the hon. Members for Gainsborough (Sir Edward Leigh) and for Brigg and Goole (Andrew Percy). Those are just some of the Conservative Members who are opposed to these measures.

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[Greg Hands]

I am not giving way further. [Interruption.]

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

Order. I am struggling to hear the Minister. I wish to hear what the Minister has to say. Has the Minister given way?

[Greg Hands]

No.

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[Ian C. Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker.

[Mr Deputy Speaker]

I will hear that later.

[Greg Hands]

I thank my colleagues from across the country for their thoughtful speeches.

In conclusion, the reforms must be considered as part of a package—the tax credit reforms, the big rise in the personal allowance and a £9 an hour national living wage by the end of this Parliament. The changes we are putting in place will deliver a new settlement for working people, one where they keep more of the money they have earned, where work pays and where employers pay decent wages without requiring them to be topped up by the state. Under Labour, tax credit spending doubled; we are bringing it back to the spending levels of 2007-08.

These reforms are necessary and fair, and will deliver a lasting settlement. I urge Members to vote—

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[Wes Streeting (Ilford North) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. I was wondering whether it was disorderly or simply discourteous that in his winding-up speech the Chief Secretary to the Treasury neglected to congratulate the hon. Member for South Cambridgeshire (Heidi Allen) on her maiden speech.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

If that was the case, I am sure it was not deliberate. No hon. Member would miss out a maiden speech.