Bus Services Bill [Lords]

Debate between Lilian Greenwood and Theresa Villiers

2nd reading: House of Commons
Wednesday 1st March 2017 Commons Chamber

[Mrs Theresa Villiers (Chipping Barnet) (Con)]

I warmly welcome this opportunity to debate bus services in the Chamber; we too seldom have an opportunity to reflect on the importance of the bus network for millions of people and to acknowledge the crucial role bus services play in our public transport system.

As has been acknowledged already from both Front Benches, buses provide a crucially important lifeline for millions of people, including people who choose not to drive a car and those who cannot afford to drive a car. We should also recognise the importance of buses for the elderly, many of whom feel that they no longer want to deal with the risk of driving a car or can no longer afford to do so. For all sorts of reasons, therefore, we in this House need to do all we can to support our bus networks around the country. I pay tribute to all the people involved in delivering bus services and helping us get to where we need to be.

I am enthusiastic about much of this Bill, but I do have worries about clause 4 and the changes made to the Bill in the other place. I warmly support the provisions in clauses 7 and 8 to facilitate the delivery of smarter ticketing technologies, which, as has already been acknowledged, can do so much to make bus travel an easier and more convenient and attractive option.

I also welcome clauses 1 to 3 and 9 to 15 on partnerships. Partnership-working between local authorities and private sector bus operators can be a highly effective way to improve bus services for passengers. There is a long list of successful examples from around the country, including places such as Sheffield and Bristol. The extension of the statutory partnership structure beyond the provision of infrastructure to include general bus improvement measures makes sense, and is an important part of the Bill. It is also a welcome step forward to enable statutory partnerships more easily to cover larger areas and have a more joined-up approach between different operators.

It is also helpful to make the Competition and Markets Authority a statutory consultee. Its current status as a powerful but somewhat unpredictable presence outside the partnership process can be a barrier to ambitious measures that both the operator and the local authority might sincerely believe are the right way forward. Giving it a more formal role internal to the process can help generate the certainty needed to support investment in measures to improve bus services for passengers.

As I have said, I am worried about the effect of clause 4 and the proposals to grant local authorities the right to specify bus services. We have heard a lot about the comparison between London and the rest of England, and it is true that in London bus routes, timetables and fares are specified by Transport for London and then tendered out to the private sector bus companies for delivery under contract, but London has unique circumstances.

There is a range of factors in London that contribute to comparatively high levels of bus usage, which are simply not present in most of the rest of the country: the scale and density of the population; relatively low rates of car ownership compared with other areas; millions of visitors; very high costs for parking in central London; a pretty aggressive approach by successive Mayors to bus priority measures; and a congestion charge that generates very significant sums to support the bus network. So while I do not see any need to change the regulatory system that operates in London, I do not accept that expanding that system to other parts of England would deliver the same high levels of ridership in places where the circumstances are very different. Indeed, the regulated bus network in England before privatisation in ’86 was simply not delivering great quality services for the customer, nor a thriving a bus industry, and it would be a mistake to look back on it with too much nostalgia.

[Lilian Greenwood]

Is the right hon. Lady aware of the experience on the island of Jersey? It franchised its bus services to a social enterprise just two years ago, and has achieved savings of £800,000 a year, introduced new routes, and increased passenger numbers by a third. What does she think that shows about the opportunity for franchising to perhaps work in other places?

[Mrs Villiers]

I have not looked at the Jersey example, but my anxiety is that rolling back the clock, essentially, and renationalising and re-regulating the bus network could ultimately mean that we lose the investment we have received from the private sector into bus services over the last decades. My key worry here is that the effect of the provisions introduced by clause 4 would be to enable local authorities, who perhaps 30 years ago sold their bus operations at a commercial price, now effectively to confiscate those self-same businesses.

The inevitable impact of this clause is that companies large and small, who might have spent many years and a great deal of money, energy, effort and innovation building up their business, might be barred from operating in the event that they lose the franchise contest. They could see their operations in a particular town or city disappear overnight, leaving them with buses, staff, depots and equipment that they cannot use.

I am particularly worried about the impact on smaller bus operators, who provide important services in many parts of the country. Those with a successful business serving a relatively small area and small range of routes might find it very difficult to tender for a big local authority contract. They might also find the tender process for running services to be complex and expensive, and require costly professional advice. If the process is anything like rail franchising, complexity can be truly daunting.

Rail (East Anglia)

Debate between Lilian Greenwood and Theresa Villiers

Tuesday 3rd July 2012 Westminster Hall

[Lilian Greenwood]

Labour took action in government, and I am happy to say that transport spending in the eastern region increased in real terms during our time in power. In our last year in office, it stood at £1.494 billion, but I do not deny that a new approach is needed. That is why I will set out our proposals for a real devolution programme with transparent and fair regional funding. Unlike the Government’s proposals on devolution, ours include democratic accountability.

The prospectus makes a powerful case for investment in East Anglia’s rail network, but Government cuts have made it less likely that the funding will be found.

[The Minister of State, Department for Transport (Mrs Theresa Villiers)]

It is simply not true that the Government are slashing spending on our railways. We have embarked on the biggest programme of capacity expansion in the rail network since the Victorian era. The hon. Lady should get her facts right.

[Lilian Greenwood]

I am sorry that the Minister felt the need to spell that out, because she is wrong. She is cutting money from planned rail investment, and there will be an impact when hon. Members seek investment. I look forward to hearing what she has to say on the high-level output specification and what it means for not only East Anglia, but other parts of the country.

The hon. Member for Suffolk Coastal has said that she was reassured that

“it is not on the Government’s Agenda to reduce passenger rail services.”

She will surely hope, therefore, that the Government do not follow the model they adopted when they issued the west coast invitation to tender. The document allowed bidders to reduce daily stops at stations by up to 10%. Any reduction in service would be compounded by the McNulty report’s ticket office closures in the counties represented here today. Colchester Town in Essex, Thetford in Norfolk, and Whittlesford Parkway in Cambridgeshire, to give just a few examples, all face having their staff withdrawn. I am sure that the hon. Lady, having secured the debate, will also put pressure on her Government to ensure that existing services in East Anglia are protected. [Interruption.]

Passengers are already feeling the pinch. Services are overcrowded, and the Government have decided to increase fares by 3% above the retail prices index for the remainder of the Parliament. They have also given train operating companies the freedom to average out the rise, leading to fare rises of up to 11% next January. When personal and family budgets are under great pressure, with some commuters paying as much as £4,000 or £5,000 for their annual travel, the Government should be on the side of East Anglia’s commuters, not vested interests in the rail industry. [Interruption.]

--- Later in debate ---

[Mrs Villiers]

I agree that a long franchise can give many more opportunities for a train operator to innovate, and for us to draw private sector investment into the railways.

We will launch a public consultation on the next Greater Anglia franchise later this year. A detailed business case will be developed, and, drawing on the results of the consultation, we are likely to appraise a range of improvement options. As to what goes into the franchise, I emphasise that we have no plans to remove daytime passenger services from the Felixstowe branch line, which was a matter of importance to my hon. Friend the Member for Suffolk Coastal. Although Hutchison Ports has proposed the change, it has an obligation under section 106 of the Town and Country Planning Act 1990 to fund the required infrastructure upgrades.

We have heard many other aspirations: there are the half-hourly services called for by my hon. Friend the Member for South West Norfolk, and the specific service changes called for by my hon. Friend the Member for Colchester (Sir Bob Russell). Decisions on those will be made only after the consultation has taken place, but I shall ensure that this debate is fed into the process.

[Lilian Greenwood]

Will the Minister give way?

[Mrs Villiers]

I am afraid I do not have time; I have only a couple of minutes left.

As for aspirations such as “Norwich in 90”—a campaign for that has been led by my hon. Friend the Member for Norwich North (Miss Smith)—it is too early to say what the franchise will specify for the train service between London and Norwich. However, in making such decisions we will need to take into account the interests of all the communities on the line, and those who live in intermediate destinations such as Chelmsford and Colchester. Whatever train service we adopt, we shall encourage bidders to put together affordable proposals for improved journey times and a better customer experience.

We did some work on options for Norwich to London before letting the short franchise, and that suggested that spending about £10 million to £15 million on new locomotives and refurbishing existing passenger vehicles would make it possible to save about seven minutes on most trains, and that could be funded in a 15-year franchise from additional revenue. However, that is just one option. We hope that franchise bidders will devise alternative plans that either cost less or produce greater benefits for passengers.

One factor, of course, that bidders will have to take into account is the requirement to make modifications to rolling stock by 2020, to provide proper access for people with reduced mobility. In response to all hon. Members who talked about the state of the rolling stock—some of it is fairly elderly—let me say that there will be changes over the next few years because of the deadline. The decision on whether that will involve targeted improvements, full refurbishment, new rolling stock or a combination of all three lies in the future, but change will have to be made. In the meantime, Abellio is pressing ahead with a deep clean of rolling stock.

In conclusion—

Rail Fares

Debate between Lilian Greenwood and Theresa Villiers

Wednesday 11th January 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mrs Villiers]

The former rail Minister has made my point for me. The Opposition must be suffering from collective amnesia if they think that this problem suddenly appeared in May 2010 when the coalition took over. In 2006, a Labour-dominated Select Committee described the Labour Government as “breathtakingly complacent” on value for money in fares. The truth is that concern about rail fares has been growing for years, as my hon. Friends the Members for Bexleyheath and Crayford (Mr Evennett), for St Albans (Mrs Main) and for Milton Keynes South have said.

A major reason for the increases is that under Labour the cost of running the railways spiralled and hard-pressed passengers and taxpayers were left to foot the bill. It is fair that passengers contribute to the cost of running the railways and to the massive programme of upgrades that we are taking forward, but neither fare payers nor taxpayers should have to pay for industry inefficiency. This Government understand how vital it is to get the cost of running the railways down and to tackle the legacy of inefficiency that we inherited from Labour. That is the long-term, sustainable solution to delivering better value for money for taxpayers and fare payers.

[Lilian Greenwood]

The point that we are seeking to make is that when the Government say that fares will go up by inflation plus 1%, that is what they should go up by, not by up to 11%, which is what many people face this year as a result of the Government’s decisions.

First Great Western Rail Franchise

Debate between Lilian Greenwood and Theresa Villiers

Tuesday 20th December 2011 Westminster Hall

[Lilian Greenwood (Nottingham South) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to speak under your chairmanship, Sir Alan. I begin by congratulating the hon. Member for Truro and Falmouth (Sarah Newton) on securing the debate and on setting out so clearly the needs of local people and businesses in the south-west.

The debate is very timely, given yesterday’s issuing of the invitation to tender for the Great Western rail passenger franchise. It may be a coincidence that that was published on the eve of the debate, but if not, I congratulate the hon. Lady on prompting Ministers to get at least that part of their franchise programme on track.

I am sure that the Minister has listened carefully to the concerns of hon. Members on both sides of the House who are here to represent constituencies right along the route in relation to the new franchise. I shall pick out just a few of the key points that they made. They talked about ensuring that the baseline for the new franchise is no less than the current service, the need for fares to be affordable, the need for faster services, especially for the benefit of business passengers—the south-west region depends on businesses for economic growth—the importance of a link to Heathrow airport, the vital importance of tackling overcrowding, and the retention of a sleeper service to Cornwall. I hope that the Minister will be able to provide some assurances on each of those points.

Several Members welcomed the opportunity to provide long-term investment, but that surely requires a degree of certainty. It is therefore of great concern that invitations to tender for franchises are being issued before the Government have decided what their franchising policy is. The First Great Western franchise ITT states:

“The contract will be based on the Franchise Agreement currently being revised in line with Government policy.”

It would surely have been sensible to finalise the franchising policy and the franchise agreement in time for the publication of the invitations to tender.

Unfortunately, it is not just the franchise agreement that is yet to be finalised by Ministers; the entire rail strategy is now running late. The departmental plan promised to:

“Develop and publish detailed proposals on delivering a sustainable railway including reform of Network Rail”,

but that, along with so much else, has slipped back to 2012. It seems that the Secretary of State inherited an in-tray overflowing with decisions her predecessor had sat on. Given yesterday’s determination by the Office of Rail Regulation that Network Rail is in breach of its licence because of the worsening performance on the national network, passengers are right to be frustrated that there is no sign of the promised reform.

As the process of renewing the franchises begins, we are left with more questions than answers. For example, we are no nearer knowing how committed Ministers are to rail devolution, and neither are prospective bidders. The ITT says:

“In line with the Government’s aspiration for decentralisation, the franchise may be let so as to permit future changes in the way that discrete parts of the network”—

[Mrs Villiers]

I feel obliged to correct the hon. Lady. We have not issued an ITT for First Great Western yet. The ITT comes after the consultation. If we issue the ITT before the consultation, we are unable to take on board the views of stakeholders. I am not sure what ITT the hon. Lady is reading from, but it is not First Great Western’s.

[Lilian Greenwood]

I thank the Minister for her clarification, but it is the information that was published yesterday in relation to the future franchise.

The publication the Minister produced mentions

“changes in the way that discrete parts of the network are financed, monitored and managed by organisations other than the DfT.”

The Opposition support rail devolution, which should go hand in hand with stronger transport authorities. We would like parts of the country such as the south-west, which do not currently have the benefit of integrated transport authorities, to have them. That would give the constituents of hon. Members who are here today more control and the opportunity to ensure that their needs are met. Could the Minister therefore update us on progress on rail devolution? What plans does she have for the devolution of services in the south-west? Will she confirm that devolution relates to funds and not just responsibilities? In parts of the country such as the south-west, which do not have an integrated transport authority, who, other than the DFT, does she envisage will be the relevant organisations?

The Department is similarly vague on the eventual reforms to cost and revenue risk, saying only:

“Revenue risk will be subject to a support mechanism probably linked to economic factors”,

but “probably” seems a bit vague for this stage in the process. Will the Minster therefore provide further details of how she intends to ensure that taxpayers get a fair deal from the new franchise and that we do not have a repeat of the licences to print money we have seen in recent years?

The Opposition have been highly critical of the way in which First Great Western has been able to end its 10-year franchise three years early—before the Minister jumps to her feet again, let me say that I appreciate the fact that the contract was agreed under the previous Government. I hope this Government have learned the lessons from the franchises that were signed in the years following privatisation so that contracts do not back-load premium payments while allowing a break clause. That has enabled First Great Western to avoid payments of an estimated £826 million, while, as now looks likely, bidding to run the franchise again.

There are also questions about what is to happen to the stations on the First Great Western line, and several Members have raised particular concerns. The invitation that has been issued states:

“The franchisee will be expected to take full repairing leases on some or all of the stations that it operates other than on Network Rail managed stations.”

Why is there the reference to

“some or all of the stations”

and what will happen to the others? If a private train operator takes control of stations, will that be within the 15-year franchise, or on the basis of 99-year leases, as Ministers have suggested? If it is within the 15-year franchise, what will happen at the end of the 15-year period? If the franchise changes hands in 15 years, one possibility is that there will have to be a significant payment to the outgoing train operating company, thereby skewing the refranchising in its favour, or are Ministers opening up the prospect of an operating company retaining the management of the stations even after losing the franchise to operate the trains? Potentially, we could see station access charges as well as track access charges, with yet more work for lawyers, more fragmentation and more cost to the taxpayer.

There are also questions about the trains to be used on the First Great Western line under the new franchise. The document says:

“It is currently expected that the franchise operator will take responsibility for the provision of rolling stock. From 2017 new Intercity Express Trains (‘IEP’) are anticipated to be delivered to the franchise operator”.

Will the Minister explain why it is only “expected” that the new franchise holder will be responsible for rolling stock? Will she confirm that the Department cannot force the new operator to lease the IEP trains? Given the Department’s admission that the leasing costs for the IEP trains will be greater than for the alternatives, what assurances can she provide that the IEP trains will actually be put into service? Will she give more details about the discussions First Great Western, and indeed East Coast, are reported to have had with rolling stock companies about potentially using more Pendolinos on these franchises, as opposed to the IEP trains being built by Hitachi? It is incredible that the taxpayer has spent tens of millions of pounds developing these new trains, on which jobs in the north-east depend, when responsibility for leasing trains rests with the private operators. As several Members have said, it is vital that the new franchise increases capacity to tackle overcrowding, rather than pricing passengers off the railways. The hon. Member for South East Cornwall (Sheryll Murray) graphically described the problems of overcrowding on inadequate train carriages. It is therefore vital that we know what rolling stock is to be delivered.

Potential operators of the new franchise are also having to bid without the Government’s having decided how best to address the clear need to improve links to Heathrow and High Speed 2—if the Government decide, as we hope they do, to give HS2 the green light. As the document says:

“Options for longer term enhancements of rail links to Heathrow, such as Western Access and Airtrack Lite, are being considered”.

Whether they go ahead will have a significant bearing on the franchise. Will the Minister provide an update on the Government’s thinking on the issue, particularly given that several Members, including my hon. Friend the Member for Plymouth, Moor View (Alison Seabeck) and the hon. Members for Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport (Oliver Colvile) and for South East Cornwall have highlighted the loss of Plymouth airport and, therefore, the importance of establishing such connections?

As hon. Members know, the Opposition have put forward their own proposal, which would offer the south-west significant benefits in terms of access to Heathrow and HS2. Our policy review concluded that we were wrong to reject the proposal to create a major new transport hub near Heathrow linking HS2, Crossrail and the First Great Western main line. We have proposed moving the west of London stop from Old Oak Common to near Heathrow. That was previously the Conservative party’s policy, and it was backed at the time by the Minister. Indeed, some tell us—quite authoritatively—that she may still hold that view.

As the Minister will know, the creation of a Heathrow hub has several benefits. First, it has the potential to save taxpayers money, by removing the need to build an expensive spur to Heathrow during the later stages of the HS2 project and opening up the potential for greater private investment in the scheme. Secondly, it will benefit Heathrow by improving access to our major hub airport, especially from the south-west. Thirdly, it will increase the potential for more of the country to feel the benefits of HS2, not least by improving connectivity to the south, the south-west and Wales. HS2 will benefit the nation as a whole, but those living in parts of the country that are not directly served by it need to feel that those benefits are real to them. Fourthly, taking the high-speed line direct to Heathrow from the start will inevitably change the route and open up the prospect of making greater use of existing transport corridors and avoiding the widest part of the Chilterns area of outstanding natural beauty.

The debate gives the Minister a timely opportunity to provide clarification on the many questions that need answering regarding the Government’s rail franchising policy and particularly the tender for the First Great Western franchise. Passengers in the south-west need and expect a better rail service than the one they have at present. With six of the 10 most overcrowded services running out of Paddington station, there is a considerable need for the investment the Labour Government set in motion, not least for the further electrification of the First Great Western main line.

As well as investing in infrastructure, we need to improve the way passenger services are delivered. The Opposition are clear that that requires the genuine devolution of rail services and a fundamental review of the very structure of our rail industry. Given that the Government look set to maintain the existing industry model, we need, at the very least, to have tough new rules for rail franchises. We need to ensure that the often poor quality of service experienced by rail passengers in the south-west, which Members have described today, is not repeated in the future.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lilian Greenwood and Theresa Villiers

Thursday 28th October 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mrs Villiers]

I am well aware of the concerns of users of the Southeastern franchise who have been asked to pay RPI plus three over the past few years. That was linked to investment in rolling stock, and the rest of the country will move on to RPI plus three to even out the perceived inequality from the year after next.

[Lilian Greenwood (Nottingham South) (Lab)]

On Tuesday, the Secretary of State seemed to think me most ungrateful because I did not thank him for the tram extensions. I am sorry to disappoint him, but the people of Nottingham South sent me here to do things, not just to say thanks. Does he accept that the tram on its own will not solve the problems, particularly for freight traffic, caused by congestion on the A453? It really is vital that the widening scheme goes ahead.