South-Eastern Rail Franchise

Debate between Lilian Greenwood and Andrew Jones

Tuesday 23rd April 2019 Commons Chamber

[Andrew Jones]

My right hon. Friend asks about how the bid may finally be judged. I cannot comment on the work in progress, but I can say that an invitation to tender was published in November 2017. It was the result of a significant consultation, to which there were 10,000 or so responses. I am as anxious as my right hon. Friend to get the benefits of that invitation to tender out to the constituents whom he serves so well, and as fast as possible, but I cannot give an answer today on who will win the franchise. That work is carried out separately by officials, away from Ministers, and the information is anonymised because it is so important and market sensitive, but his point will have been heard by all those in the industry.

[Lilian Greenwood (Nottingham South) (Lab)]

The south-eastern franchise was originally due to end in 2014. The failure of the west coast franchise delayed that ending until August 2018, and now the direct award to Govia could be further extended. It is hard to understand why, if the Government still believe in competition for rail services, the Department for Transport seems absolutely unable to run a competition for this franchise. Will the Minister clarify how many compliant bids were received for the south-eastern franchise and how many were received for the east midlands franchise that was awarded two weeks ago?

East Midlands Rail Franchise

Debate between Lilian Greenwood and Andrew Jones

Thursday 11th April 2019 Commons Chamber

[Andrew Jones]

I will of course consider my hon. Friend’s point, but we have produced an interactive map so anybody can log on and see where the benefits will fall right across the franchise area. That map is available at maps.dft.gov.uk and may provide the detail he seeks.

[Lilian Greenwood (Nottingham South) (Lab)]

I hope the Minister recognises that, although East Midlands Trains staff are covered by TUPE thanks to our membership of the EU, this will be a really uncertain time for them—especially those who have worked for Stagecoach for the last 12 years. Will he first join me in thanking them for their hard work, which I know will continue for the rest of this franchise and into the next? Does he also recognise the wider anxiety that this decision has prompted among railway staff about the security of their pensions? At privatisation, his Department promised to provide a long-term guarantee for their pensions. What assurance can he give them today that that has not changed?

[Andrew Jones]

The hon. Lady is quite right. I happily join her in thanking those who have worked in this franchise and, indeed, in all the other franchises to make our railway system work day in, day out. It is a hard job they do, and we should recognise that, not criticise them for it.

I also recognise that, when anything changes like this, there will be a degree of uncertainty. A level of uncertainty can come when there are takeovers in any sector of business, but when franchises change there are TUPE protections, which are positive, and I entirely support that. Pensions are a key part of having a comprehensive offer for workers in every sector, and the Pensions Regulator is working with the trustees of the railways pension scheme to ensure that workers’ benefits are protected. We want that to happen. We want to see people in the sector retire with secure, stable, good pensions.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lilian Greenwood and Andrew Jones

Thursday 21st March 2019 Commons Chamber

[Andrew Jones]

We have been reviewing Network Rail’s environmental performance, and the consequences of the recently published new environmental strategy should follow through all areas of Network Rail’s work. We obviously need to maintain a safe rail network, but we also want to see the embankments and all the Network Rail land deliver environmental benefits. The two are not incompatible. I do not know about the specific area around my hon. Friend’s constituency, but I am happy to look at it. As regards the overall picture, we have seen some real change and progress in this policy area, and it will be a priority for the future.

[Lilian Greenwood (Nottingham South) (Lab)]

Electrification is clearly the optimal solution for intensively used rail lines, and the Railway Industry Association has shown that it can be delivered at costs that are 33% to 50% lower than those for past projects, if it is part of a rolling programme. Why will the Secretary of State not electrify the midland main line and give Nottingham the cleaner, greener and cheaper services it deserves?

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lilian Greenwood and Andrew Jones

Thursday 14th February 2019 Commons Chamber

[Andrew Jones]

I say to my right hon. Friend that we are doing both. We are replacing the rolling stock in our country and delivering HS2, which is what we need to deliver more capacity in our rail market.

[Lilian Greenwood (Nottingham South) (Lab)]

If we believed Ministers’ promises back in 2012, passengers on the midland main line would be travelling on new electric trains this year. Instead, they are on old British Rail stock, the toilets empty straight onto the track, and they have to lean out of the window to open the door when the train arrives in the station. That is not great for anyone, and it is certainly not disabled friendly. The Government’s inclusive transport strategy, published last year, does not contain any commitment that all rolling stock on the rail network will meet the accessibility deadline of 1 January 2020—a deadline that this industry has known about for 20 years. The strategy does give that commitment for buses and coaches; why not rail?

Rail Infrastructure Investment

Debate between Lilian Greenwood and Andrew Jones

Thursday 17th January 2019 Westminster Hall

[Andrew Jones]

My right hon. Friend makes a powerful point. She gave a powerful speech, which recognised how transport investment, alongside other investments, can drive an economy. The work that she and colleagues have done on producing a business case has been highly effective. She asked whether I would work with her and of course I will, as I will work with all colleagues, to maximise the benefits of the rail investment we are putting in. As to communication, rail companies can do more. We should be looking at all digital and other means of communicating with customers to keep them informed. There are mechanisms through the franchise agreement for keeping the companies accountable. However, I also regularly meet the Rail Delivery Group, and through those and other regular meetings, with individual operating companies, I have already highlighted the issue of communication with their customers. I will continue to do so, but my right hon. Friend is right that there must be improvement on that.

I was saying a few things about how our network has played a role in the increasing economic growth of the past few years, and how that combination of the public and private sectors, working together, has delivered improvement. That includes private sector skills driving investment for passengers and rail freight. However, that success has also resulted in challenges. We have been open about facing such challenges, including in our programme of infrastructure works in the current investment period, and in the rail structures we inherited. That was very clear and it is why we have taken action and changed our approach. The work of the Select Committee has been very helpful in that respect.

In March 2018 we published our new approach to rail enhancements, called the “Rail Network Enhancements Pipeline: A New Approach for Rail Enhancements”. We have a knack of creating very difficult-to-say acronyms. In September the Secretary of State announced that he had appointed Keith Williams, a respected industry figure. He has expertise in driving customer service excellence, and therefore he is incredibly valuable as we seek to reform the rail industry to become more passenger-focused, and to lead a root and branch review of the railway. The Government’s new approach to enhancements has, as Members will be aware, been a key focus for the Transport Committee. The Williams review is a really exciting moment for our industry. The structures that we have had have helped to turn around decades of decline. We have gone from many years of decline to rapid growth. As many people now use the rail network as did in the 1920s—with all the challenges that come with that, which I shall come on to. The structure has helped to achieve the growth, but it is not clear to me that it will help us take things forward for the next stage. That is what Mr Williams has been asked to consider, and it is an interesting prospect.

The approach being taken learns lessons from CP5, responding to the recommendations of the Bowe review. It is quite profound. We are replacing a once-in-five-years plan with a rolling pipeline of investment, which was a key recommendation of the Committee. I can entirely see why both the review and the Committee made that recommendation. We will be able to respond flexibly to changes in circumstances, and emerging priorities. Unlike in CP5 where certainty—I know we have talked about it—often turned out to be frankly illusory, the supply chain can be confident that once we have made a decision we will stick to it. Those concerned will know exactly how far the commitment extends, for funding and delivery. I completely agree with the principle of transparency to help people plan accordingly. We shall be transparent about the progress of individual schemes as they move through the pipeline, and throughout the control period, but the point is that we are not simply making one announcement at the start of a cycle.

The RNEP has five stages, through which enhancement schemes move from concept to delivery, with increasing levels of detail and development required at each stage. We call them “determine”, “develop”, “design”, “deliver” and “deploy”. A theme runs through them, from “determine”, where the opportunity is identified, to “deliver”, where the solution is provided. Not all projects will progress through all the stages. Each stage is preceded by a decision point, where we will decide whether the scheme is ready to advance to the next stage, whether more work is needed, or whether there is a better way of achieving things. We commit to progress only to the next stage—not all the way to completion.

[Lilian Greenwood]

I completely understand the point that just because something enters the enhancements pipeline that does not mean it will reach the end. That depends on its progressing through the gateways. However, I should be grateful if the Minister set out clearly which parts of the enhancements pipeline will be transparent to the House and the wider industry. Will we know what things are in all the stages, or will we know only about the latter stages, once something has been committed to delivery? It would help us if we could be clear on that point.

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[Andrew Jones]

My intention is that we should be as transparent as we can without giving a running commentary on schemes that also present challenges in the managing of expectation. I intend to be transparent about progress as they move through the pipeline—in the phrase I just used—and that suggests each stage of the process.

[Lilian Greenwood]

So is the Minister saying that when something moves from one stage of the pipeline to another, there will be an announcement to let us know?

[Andrew Jones]

Yes, exactly. What form it will take I do not know, but as schemes progress through, from “determine” to “develop” and so on, we will be transparent about it.

The objective is to secure value for the taxpayer by progressing schemes only when we have an appropriate understanding of how much they will cost, how long they will take, and the benefits that will be delivered. That is in great contrast to CP5, where that did not happen.

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[Andrew Jones]

One simple way, of course, is to ask the Minister concerned. I will find out exactly where we are with the Ely junction and respond to the hon. Gentleman. Significant works are planned around Ely, but there are a number of junctions around Ely—I have reviewed a map of them in the past few weeks—and I will need to remind myself specifically which one that might be.

Let me go back to the changes to CP6 from CP5, which create a direct contrast. I think it is fair to say that in CP5 we overcommitted to projects at too early a stage, meaning that later we had to change the scope or cancel altogether, increasing the uncertainty and the impact on the industry’s ability to plan for investment and delivery. The RNEP sets out the Secretary of State’s four priorities for rail enhancements across the country, and we will not progress any enhancement that cannot clearly demonstrate how it meets at least one of them. It is important that those priorities remain applicable to the whole country so that the network can be improved fairly and as a whole.

I welcome the fact that the Transport Committee’s report shared a similar approach to our own in promoting engagement with third-party proposals for rail schemes. On 20 March last year the Department published its guidance for market-led proposals and launched a call for ideas for the same. That call for ideas ran between 31 May and 31 July last year. We received 30 responses. DFT officials have assessed all of them and will now work with promoters to move their schemes forward, although I stress that they will still be market-led. We will be transparent about schemes as and when they progress into the pipeline.

The question was whether this has stalled. No, it has not. We certainly want to see new entrants into the market and ideas being brought forward. I am absolutely clear that not all ideas to drive forward our network will come from SW1—that would be silly.

[Lilian Greenwood]

I thank the Minister for confirming that 30 proposals were received by the Department. I know that he does not want to raise expectations or to give us too much information, but will he at least confirm how many of the proposals are being progressed? Of those 30, how many are the Department taking forward? When might we expect to hear more about which those are, and where in the country they might relate to?

[Andrew Jones]

I cannot remember off the top of my head. I looked at the schemes but cannot remember the answer. I will have to write to the hon. Lady with the details.

We spent a bit of time discussing electrification. The hon. Lady expressed some concern and asked whether we had ruled out electrification. Clearly the answer is no. Our railway infrastructure investment in CP6, however, is about securing positive outcomes, not necessarily specific outputs or inputs. We want to secure benefits for rail users and to do so in the best way possible, rather than simply building more railway for its own sake. Passengers expect high-quality rail services, and we are committed to electrification where it will deliver passenger benefits and value for money.

We will also take advantage of state-of-the-art new technology to improve journeys. The hon. Member for Cambridge (Daniel Zeichner) talked about digital rail. Certainly, technology has a role to play. It is one of the exciting opportunities in the sector. We are already progressing a number of digital rail schemes, using the £450 million secured under the autumn statement 2016 to begin the roll-out of that vital technology. I agree with his points.

Our new approach is designed to provide the maximum possible certainty of investment and a sustainable pipeline for the supply chain. That will provide benefits balanced for the whole country. I met the Railway Industry Association and understand entirely its point about how unwelcome “boom and bust” is. One former Chancellor and Prime Minister talked about putting an end to boom and bust—I am not sure that he would use that phrase again—so I will be cautious in my language and instead say that we will smooth the pipeline of work so that the industry can plan appropriately—skill up and scale up.

However, I suggest that the industry should look at a £48 billion budget pipeline over the next five years and think, “Fantastic!” This Government are buying rail like no other Government in British history. We live in a bumper time for our railways, in terms of rolling stock investment, enhancements, new lines and maintenance. I would imagine—this is what we see—that a lot of people look at this and think, “I want to get some of the great work being done by the UK Government.”

Another aspect of technology to promote is how it can deliver outcomes. That includes the introduction of new bi-modal trains, which reduce disruption to passengers resulting from heavy infrastructure works. The new bi-modal trains are being delivered into service with Great Western, LNER and TransPennine, bringing modern traction technologies on to Britain’s railways.

We continue to promote the use of new technology across rail. Recent franchise competitions have included requirements for bidders to develop innovative solutions around rolling stock technology that will, among other things, reduce emissions on the network. I am keen to take forward the decarbonisation agenda, which the hon. Member for Nottingham South mentioned, and it remains an absolute priority. I will work with the industry and will publish that report—it cannot happen soon enough. I am talking about publication of the decarbon- isation report and about working with different types of traction, such as hydrogen-powered trains, which I have read about. I look at the opportunities that they present to improve air quality radically, and I think, “We want some of that in the UK.” It will certainly be a priority.

[Lilian Greenwood]

The Minister is being characteristically generous in taking interventions. I welcome the news that the decarbonisation report will be published. Will he clarify whether he has received that report from Malcolm Brown, the former CEO of Angel Trains? Will the Minister tell us a little about what is in it, or when he will share that information with us?

[Andrew Jones]

We have received a further draft within the past few days. It is not the absolutely final version of the report, but I understand that we are very near it. I hope to read it, but I think that I should read it when it is finished, rather than in draft form—to be fair to Mr Brown. As soon as we have more information, I will keep the hon. Lady posted.

Regional spend has been a concern in this debate and more broadly. The hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull North (Diana Johnson) kindly said that I was definitely listening—to confirm, I am definitely listening, and definitely Yorkshire. The Government are clear that there should be a balance of rail investment across the whole network, to the benefit of the whole country. The Government and the Select Committee alike agree that capital spending in one part of the network can deliver benefits further afield.

I must stress, however, that the Department for Transport does not allocate funding on the basis of per head of population. Our railway is a network, with spending in a particular area benefiting users up and down the country.

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[Andrew Jones]

I am very keen for that line to be upgraded and will ensure that all the opportunities to progress it are considered. I want to make it absolutely clear that there is no loss of ambition, but at the same time we must be very careful when industry experts tell us that if we do any more we will bring the network to a halt for just about every weekend in five years. That is the advice from senior levels in Network Rail. On getting on with it, that cannot happen soon enough as far as I am concerned.

[Lilian Greenwood]

We still have 42 minutes left, but I do not anticipate that we will take that long. On the transpennine electrification, I accept the Minister’s point that we do not want excessive disruption, but will he accept that it is better to do the right thing, which will lead to cost-effective operations, environmental benefits and reliability benefits in the longer term, even if that sometimes means that delivery of the scheme will take longer? Will he commit to talk to Rail North about how the maximum benefits can be achieved in the long term, rather than a short-term approach that could bake in disbenefits over a very long period?

[Andrew Jones]

I will continue to talk with all the different bodies across the north to maximise the benefits. We are not taking a short-term approach; a short-term approach would be to get on and do it right away. We are taking the approach to deliver it in phases to maximise the benefits. At each stage we are also future-proofing it. That principle is already being implemented.

The hon. Member for Bradford South (Judith Cummins) talked about Northern Powerhouse Rail. I am also very keen for Bradford to be well served by that. Indeed, Transport for the North is developing the proposals for Northern Powerhouse Rail. That is great—it will be from the north, for the north. I went to Transport for the North’s last board meeting, at which I was going to receive the strategic outline business case. Transport for the North had to pull that business case at the last moment, but I will go up to its next board meeting; I do not criticise it in the slightest for that. The hon. Member for Nottingham South just mentioned the principle of getting things right for the longer term, and in pulling the business case, Transport for the North was making sure that it does that.

Northern Powerhouse Rail is a very exciting project. The only point I made when I said I would come back for the next board meeting was that I wanted Transport for the North to get on with the project promptly. Northern Powerhouse Rail and HS2 are linked in lots of ways, and any delays to Northern Powerhouse Rail could compromise other projects, so I urged speedy progress.

Colleagues mentioned HS2. I take the opportunity to confirm that HS2 remains a critical project for the Government.

Train Operating Companies: Yorkshire

Debate between Lilian Greenwood and Andrew Jones

Wednesday 19th December 2018 Westminster Hall

[Andrew Jones]

I am always available for colleagues and am happy to arrange meetings. I know that engineering work is going on around the Christmas period this year, and I shall be going to see it. That is affecting the possibility of running Boxing day trains this year; but let us look to the future. I am happy to meet the hon. Gentleman.

We shall shortly run out of time for debate, and I want to spend a moment looking ahead. I gently remind colleagues who talk about a lack of investment in the north that although I have some sympathy as to investment, a little caution is required in taking snapshots of figures. The figures for London reflect Crossrail, but analysis of the Infrastructure and Projects Authority figures for planned central Government spending on transport infrastructure in the four-year period we are now in—from 2017 to 2020—shows that the northern regions will have a higher spend than the southern ones.

[Lilian Greenwood]

Will the Minister give way?

[Andrew Jones]

I am going to run out of time in a minute.

[Lilian Greenwood]

On that point, please.

[Andrew Jones]

My goodness—go on then.

[Lilian Greenwood]

I thank the Minister for giving way. The point is important, because he talks about the northern regions, but this debate is about Yorkshire. As I said earlier, Yorkshire and Humber is set to receive the lowest level of spending of any region, according to his figures, at £726 per head compared with £1,026 in London and £1,139 in the south-east. It is much less than the spending in the north-west and west midlands, which will alter the figures. Yorkshire and Humber is losing out.

[Andrew Jones]

That was a repetition of the point that the hon. Lady made earlier, so I do not need to address it.

I gently remind hon. Members that we had a zero-growth franchise, which was put in place by the Labour party, and we are playing catch-up on under-investment. Labour Members may say that Labour invested steadily when it was in government, but the evidence is the exact opposite. We had a zero-growth franchise and are catching up from it. Let me consider what that catch-up might look like.

Although 2018 is clearly a year that passengers in the north would wish to forget, we should not overlook the fact that train services in the region will be changing fundamentally. A significant amount of investment will bring passenger benefits. On the infrastructure side, the electrification between Manchester and Preston, which I mentioned earlier, was finally energised last week and the first test trains are now operational. [Interruption.] It will benefit services across the north. That is my point. Electric passenger services will be phased in during the spring. Across the region platform lengthening is under way. Of course I recognise that performance is not good enough, and that is why we have made a change in the control period 6 budgets and priorities. Under CP6 there will be a budget of £48 billion. That covers the period from 2019 to 2024. The priority was moving away from enhancements to catching up on core reliability—the maintenance of the network.

[Andrew Jones]

If I get time I shall come on to the trans-Pennine upgrades, but the core purpose of the CP6 investment, which is a record from any Government in British history, is to increase reliability and punctuality.

The key thing that passengers will notice is new trains. New rolling stock will come in on Northern, TransPennine Express and London North Eastern Railway networks in the coming months, including the removal of Pacers by the end of 2019. By this time next year the vast majority of the 500 brand new carriages committed by Northern and TPE will have been delivered, and the remainder will have been completely refurbished. TPE will have introduced its new Nova trains on the north trans-Pennine route and all the Pacers will be gone from Northern. There will be more services to add to those already delivered, especially at weekends; there will also be later last trains in the evenings and earlier first trains on Sundays. Elsewhere, LNER will begin introducing its new Azuma trains next year.

The trans-Pennine upgrade is a huge Government initiative—a £2.9 billion upgrade covering York to Leeds and Manchester. It is one third of the expected rail upgrade investment in the next control period, so it is a significant point. By the way, freight has been mentioned, and it is of course still under our consideration for northern trans-Pennine.

[Lilian Greenwood]

Will the Minister give way?

[Andrew Jones]

No, because I am running out of time. I have 50 seconds left.

We have a trans-Pennine upgrade that is bigger than anything ever considered or delivered by Labour. We are delivering it for the north in a way that has never been considered before.

Northern Powerhouse Rail, which some have called Crossrail for the north, is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. The scheme is being developed for the north by the north—by Transport for the North—and the Government have given a budget to help it to do that. Crossrail in London was mentioned as if money were piling into it. The money that has gone into Crossrail was, of course, a loan. Transport for London needed that loan to help it deliver the project. It was not a grant.

Of course, it is fair to say that rail services across Yorkshire and the north as a whole have not been good enough. That is entirely understood, but I want to leave colleagues in no doubt that we recognise the importance of the Yorkshire rail network and that steps are being taken to improve it. More than that, I hope that in a year’s time passengers will be able to experience the change as investment comes on stream, and the benefits to match our vision for a 21st century railway in Yorkshire.