Pension Schemes Bill

Debate between Liam Byrne and Helen Whately

Consideration of Lords message
Wednesday 22nd April 2026 Commons Chamber

[Liam Byrne]

I rise to say a couple of things in support of the Minister, who not only has done a heroic job in laying out the intellectual architecture for the legislation before he got to the House, but is so expertly steering it through the House. I wish him all the very best this afternoon in finishing the job.

I want to make three points. First, the measures that the Minister has set out are essential if we are to pursue the long-term interests of pension savers in this country. It is in their fundamental interests that they live and retire in an economy that is growing faster in the years to come. The only way in which we can collectively achieve that is by raising the investment rate in this country. For a long time, our investment rate was the lowest in the G7; it is improving and is now the second-lowest in the G7. It is for exactly that purpose that hon. Members on both sides of the House made the argument that we need to repatriate investment saving.

The fact is, we have got to resolve the paradox that, on the one hand, we have £3 trillion-worth of pension savings and, on the other hand, while we have some of the world’s best life science, best universities and best entrepreneurs, we do not have the investment institutions and systems that connect long-term savings to that brilliant tradition of entrepreneurial genius. Unless we fix that long-standing paradox, this country will not grow faster. That is not a Labour analysis; it is an analysis that was first advanced by the former Conservative Chancellor, the right hon. Member for Godalming and Ash (Sir Jeremy Hunt).

If we manage to get that right, the investment rate in the country will go up and the economy will grow faster in the years to come. Therefore, there is not a cost to the savings of Britain’s pension savers—it will actually be to their advantage.

[Helen Whately]

As I think the right hon. Gentleman will have heard in my speech, there is widespread agreement that we want to see more investment by pension funds in the UK; the debate is about whether mandation is the way to achieve that. Actually the Minister’s main argument for the mandation powers is not about investment in the UK; it is about solving a collective action first-mover problem in trying to improve returns and the risk that that will put up costs to pension funds and for savers. That is what he’s really arguing, rather than the point made by the right hon. Gentleman about investment in the UK.

[Liam Byrne]

I am grateful for that intervention, because the hon. Lady made my second point for me. It is just not good enough to will the ends and not the means. The reality is that, after all the heroic work of the former Conservative Chancellor, built on ably by the current Chancellor of the Exchequer to advance the Mansion House accord and the Sterling 20, the repatriation of long-term savings into our country is going at a snail’s pace. If we want to deliver it by a timetable on which we are both agreed, we will need to give a little bit of encouragement to the industry. That is exactly what the Minister’s proposed provision would do.

Budget Resolutions

Debate between Liam Byrne and Helen Whately

Monday 1st November 2021 Commons Chamber

[Helen Whately]

I will make a bit more progress.

I heard some Opposition Members say that rich people are not paying in enough. Well, I ask them to look at the Government’s distribution analysis and the analysis of the Resolution Foundation. These analyses say that the Government’s policies boost incomes for those on the lowest incomes, while those with the broadest shoulders—the better off—are the ones who will be paying the most. I also ask Opposition Members to acknowledge, as so many Government Members did, how both the increase to the national living wage by 6.6% and the changes to the universal credit taper rate will help millions of households on the lowest incomes. For example, a single parent of two children who works full-time will be £1,200 better off next year thanks to these changes.

[Liam Byrne]

I only intervene because I am sure that the Minister does not want to lead the House astray. The Resolution Foundation is very clear in its analysis that three quarters of the 4.4 million people on universal credit will be negatively affected and the bottom fifth of people will be £280 a year worse off as a result of the £20 uplift being stripped away. I am sure that she would want the record to reflect that.

[Helen Whately]

I stand by what I said: the Government’s distribution analysis and the Resolution Foundation analysis say that this Budget and spending review boost the incomes of those on the lowest incomes, and that those who are better off are paying in the most. The crucial point about the changes to the taper rate for universal credit is that it is about ensuring that people keep more of what they earn, and get the benefits and rewards of their hard work. The effect that it has is a tax cut for those on the lowest incomes.

There were times when I wondered whether Opposition Members were scrutinising the same Budget as Government Members. At many points, it felt as though they had missed the point. It was clear that the Opposition have no alternative plan. It was not clear whether they felt that we were spending too much or too little; what they would cut; what they would change; or where they would raise funds from. We on the Conservative Benches know that we are making the hard, responsible decisions, and setting ourselves up for the future.

I come to a serious point I want to make. Colleagues rightly pointed out that public spending is relatively high, and I share colleagues’ concerns about the size of the state at the moment. In fact, the Chancellor himself spoke about this last week. We on the Conservative Benches know that government should have limits. We want people to keep more of the rewards of their efforts, and we have said that, by the end of this Parliament, we want taxes to be going up, rather than down.