Cass Review

Lia Nici Excerpts

Monday 15th April 2024 Commons Chamber

[Victoria Atkins]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his advocacy on this issue. I very much hope that all Members will be able to use the evidence produced in this review and report in future debates about legislation so that we can all make informed and correct decisions.

[Lia Nici (Great Grimsby) (Con)]

Let’s be honest, Secretary of State, this excellent review exposes institutionalised grooming and abuse by so-called “professional” medical people. What is she going to do to make sure that people pushing this from day one are, as a minimum, now going to be on the sex offenders list and taken off being able to practise as medical people?

[Victoria Atkins]

I thank my hon. Friend and near neighbour for that. She is right, as is my hon. Friend the Member for Stone (Sir William Cash), to emphasise that this is about not just the debate within the NHS, but what happens online. I know that parents of children affected by this are very aware of the online “grooming”, as they describe it, of children on social media. I do not want to trespass for the time being on the regulators—we have already had some constructive conversations with them—but the will of the House is clear that we expect the report to be followed and clinicians to act on the basis of that evidence.

Brain Tumour Research Funding

Lia Nici Excerpts

Thursday 9th March 2023 Commons Chamber

[Lia Nici (Great Grimsby) (Con)]

I have to admit that, until the last few days, I knew virtually nothing about brain tumours and brain cancer—after the last few days, I know just a tiny bit more. Often, members of the public are cynical about all-party parliamentary groups, but they do a huge amount of work, including to raise awareness for the public. One of our privileges in this place is that we can work with our constituents, who share their stories with us and tell us why we need to be aware of them so that we can do our jobs to, hopefully, raise awareness and have an impact on Government policy and different types of funding.

I am here because, as in many cases, a constituent, Julie Alison Grimble, wrote to me to ask whether I would attend the debate in order to help raise awareness about brain tumours. Her husband Neil went to the optician for an eye test, which revealed that he needed to be referred to hospital. When he went for his appointment, he was diagnosed with a stage 4 brain tumour. He was only 55 years old. He had two children, a son-in-law and one grandchild at that point. As we have heard with many colleagues’ cases in this debate, he was given a diagnosis of 12 to 18 months for how long he would be with us. Sadly, in 2021, at the age of 56—just in that year —he passed away.

This enables us to realise the amount of work that the APPG and Brain Tumour Research are doing to raise awareness, because if it had not been for Julie writing to me and telling her family story, I would not be able to try to help in a small way to raise awareness. The fact that Neil was diagnosed at stage 4 reveals that we need to make members of the public much more aware of the symptoms or signs to look for. I would like to thank the opticians and ophthalmologists out there, because it is quite often through an eye test that people learn that they need to have treatment. It is not just brain tumours; people can have a whole range of different health issues diagnosed from going to their optician. It is very important that people understand that.

As colleagues have said, the “Pathway to a Cure” report, commissioned by Brain Tumour Research and the APPG, has revealed that, astonishingly, there is an underspend in the funding for research. That also raises the point that it needs to be easier for researchers to apply, and for there not to be so many different types of funds, which makes it more complicated for people to access such research funds. On a more practical level, perhaps people studying medicine, those actually practising it and researchers may not actually be aware of what is available. I was talking to my hon. Friend the Member for Scunthorpe (Holly Mumby-Croft) about this situation, and we know that every treatment comes from a breakthrough, but if there is not enough research, it is highly unlikely that we will be able to have breakthroughs and make connections with other types of cancer as well.

I would just like to thank Julie very much for getting in touch with me. I will continue to work to raise awareness and, I hope, show that we can do some good, which is the value of debates such as this.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

We now come to the Front-Bench speeches. I call the shadow Minister.

Down Syndrome Bill

Lia Nici Excerpts

3rd reading
Friday 4th February 2022 Commons Chamber

[Jo Gideon]

I thank my hon. Friend. I absolutely agree. I think we need to look at the whole pathway from education to work, as we said earlier.

I would like to mention a very interesting and important project that I was involved with a few years ago in a very isolated community in the Brecon Beacons called Myddfai. The challenge was to create sustainable employment and regenerate a very isolated village. As part of the project, we created a trading company, and within that trading company we were able to employ a number of young people. I am glad to say that, eight years on, there are still young people employed there today, some of whom have Down syndrome. Members can see if they look on the website, myddfai.com, how happy they look in the photographs. It is really satisfying to see how the right employment can fulfil.

[Lia Nici (Great Grimsby) (Con)]

My hon. Friend is making an excellent speech. Talking about employment, does she agree that this landmark Bill identifies that people who have Down syndrome have specific needs and that employment is a vital part of everybody’s life, as is having rewarding, independent living and good employers? We need more employers to consider people with special needs.

[Jo Gideon]

My hon. Friend makes a good point and we touched on it earlier. An understanding of what support is needed specifically is probably not good enough in the world of employment, education and local authorities as statutory providers. What this Bill will do, I believe, is put a duty of care on everybody, but also a duty of education. In my experience, employers genuinely want to be helpful to everybody in their communities, but there is a role for all of us to play in understanding what additional support might need to be provided to people with Down syndrome. I am sure that there are good local examples, but it is challenging for employers if they do not have that knowledge. We should consider that as part of the duty to develop personal development paths for young people with Down syndrome.

[Lia Nici]

What my hon. Friend says is vital. Does she agree that Members of Parliament are well placed to be that conduit with education organisations and employers to help and guide them, and to give them confidence in how to get help to ensure they can employ and support people with Down syndrome in their workforce?

[Jo Gideon]

I entirely agree. We are in an incredibly privileged place to highlight that need and to work with those who will help us take forward this massively important agenda. I congratulate my right hon. Friend the Member for North Somerset on his Bill.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lia Nici (Great Grimsby) (Con)]

I congratulate my right hon. Friend the Member for North Somerset (Dr Fox). As a newbie and a Back Bencher I still cannot quite believe that I am in the same place as him. This is a truly landmark Bill, and it has been fantastic to learn from him how such a Bill can be formed to make a real difference in human beings’ lives.

I am chair of the apprenticeship diversity champions network, and one of our aims is to get more people with learning difficulties and disabilities into apprenticeships and long-term work. The Bill will help to get employers to understand that people with Down syndrome are very able to work in their workplaces. After this debate, in National Apprenticeship Week next week, I will write to the top 100 apprenticeship providers to say that they need to think about employing more people who have Down syndrome and who have learning difficulties and disabilities more widely.

I do hate the term “disabilities”. It should be “differences” or “diversities”, because everybody can do some things and not others. I have felt for a long time that the word “disability” does a disservice to our fellow human beings. I feel blessed that, as I was growing up, my mother retrained as a social worker. She went to university, while she was working full time as a catering manager, to become an assistant social worker and went on to become a fully qualified one.

My mother specialised in learning difficulties and disabilities, so in my teenage years I had lots of discussions with her and learned about the different types of disabilities. She was and still is passionate about people with difficulties and disabilities having as full and independent lives as possible, which I have taken to heart and always thought about. We all want to be independent and to have fruitful and enjoyable lives, including work lives. If employers are watching or listening to this, or reading about it afterwards, they should start to think about taking on people who have Down syndrome, because they can add a fantastic extra dimension.

[Jonathan Gullis]

My hon. Friend is a doughty champion not just for Great Grimsby but for skills and apprenticeships across our country. She worked in the further education sector before entering this place, which goes to show the breadth of talent and life experience that we now have on both sides of the Chamber. Does she agree that that makes this a much more representative, diverse and better House of Commons?

[Lia Nici]

I thank my hon. Friend for his support and for his passion about education. We have many conversations about it, although I was worried at one point that he was going to say that I was teaching in further education before he was born, which, worryingly, might actually be true. We will brush over that.

I urge employers to think about taking on people who have Down syndrome. As the Bill is so specifically about Down syndrome, it will allow the message to be communicated much more widely to employers.

There is another reason I feel that this is a landmark Bill. Let me use a metaphor. One of my first jobs when I was 18 was as a barmaid in a country pub not far from Grimsby called the King’s Head, in a little village called Keelby. In the 1980s, pubs were part of their communities. They still are now, although perhaps not as much, sadly. One resident of the village—I will not use his proper name, as I have not asked his family’s permission, but we will call him Bob—lived across the road from the pub. He came into the pub every night and was welcomed by everybody. He had his own special tankard hanging up. When Bob came in there was a particular orange juice that he liked to drink at a particular strength—I had to learn how he liked his drink—and he had a pint with everybody. How England is embracing people with Down syndrome with the Bill is very much like how Bob was embraced in the pub. He was greeted as an equal, and joined in conversations and played pub games. It was very much part of his life. He was working at the time. Is it not lovely to think about how the country and, we hope, the wider United Kingdom can embrace the Bill?

As my right hon. Friend the Member for North Somerset says, it is important to have a named person in the ICS and care sectors.

[Brendan Clarke-Smith]

I endorse my hon. Friend’s comments about disabilities, and particularly that we all have different needs and should be looking to embrace that. I found out when I was 18 that I was dyspraxic, and it helped explain a lot of things for me. I still have a bit of a challenge with my positioning in the Chamber sometimes.

The way that we view special educational needs and other needs has changed a lot in this country over the years. Does my hon. Friend agree that the Bill is a great opportunity to showcase the talents and contributions of people with Down syndrome in this country, and that we can take that attitude forward so that the United Kingdom is a world leader in this regard?

[Lia Nici]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. The Bill will help to take away some people’s fear. As I said at the beginning of my speech, I feel blessed because I have been able to learn about people with learning disabilities and people with Down syndrome since I was a young teenager, and I have also worked with people with learning difficulties and disabilities. Realising that they have the same or similar goals to everyone else—to find somewhere nice to live, to be independent, to find somebody they love and to have a good job—is the crux of all this. I hope that the specific mention of Down syndrome will take away the fear about what it means to have it, and that we will be able to have an open conversation in the village pub that is England and the wider pubs of the UK. That will mean that we can start to talk about it and not be scared of it. A lot of people are scared. They do not understand and they might not have ever met anybody who has Down syndrome. We in this place, with the fantastic guidance of my eminent right hon. Friend the Member for North Somerset, will enable that to happen.

--- Later in debate ---

[Gillian Keegan]

My hon. Friend makes a very good point, which has been raised by my hon. Friend the Member for Stourbridge (Suzanne Webb) and my right hon. Friend the Member for Scarborough and Whitby (Sir Robert Goodwill), who have previously mentioned specific genetic conditions. We will definitely consider overlaps and linkages between these conditions and Down syndrome through the consultation on the development of the guidance. Even though, as has been stressed many times, this Bill is specifically drafted to increase its chances of being passed, many groups will benefit from the work to develop this guidance.

I also thank my right hon. Friend the Member for North Somerset for the two amendments he tabled in Committee to ensure that the guidance is laid before Parliament on publication and to amend the Bill’s long title. I was pleased to accept both amendments on behalf of the Government. Laying the guidance in Parliament, as my very experienced right hon. Friend explained, will ensure it has the proper scrutiny.

I also thank my right hon. Friend, other hon. Members and stakeholders for providing invaluable feedback, on Second Reading and in Committee, on ensuring the implementation of the guidance in practice. Of course, the guidance must be acted upon for us to see real change for people with Down syndrome. That is why we have committed to having a named lead on integrated care boards who will be responsible for the implementation of the guidance in practice. The named lead will ensure that the right services are in place at local level and that people with Down syndrome are able to access those services. That will be a much-needed voice. We are determined that the guidance will be implemented fully and as intended at local level. This will lead to tangible improvements in the lives of people with Down syndrome, and I am personally very committed to that.

At the heart of the Bill is guidance for the relevant authorities—local authorities, and education and health authorities. I am clear that to ensure that the guidance is fit for purpose, we will consult widely and in an open and inclusive way. We will seek views from people with Down syndrome and their families, from the voluntary sector and from others who support people with Down syndrome to ensure that it reflects their needs and experience. We will work with stakeholders to ensure that the guidance remains fit for purpose. This is a real opportunity, and we do not intend to miss any aspect of it.

Once the guidance is published, the Government will keep it under regular review and update it periodically. As I said, we also recognise that people with genetic or chromosomal conditions other than Down syndrome may experience similar problems to people with Down syndrome, so we will definitely look at that and consider how the guidance can help some of those groups more broadly during the process.

I know from the debates during the passage of the Bill that employment is a really important consideration, on which we have not done well enough to date. We will continue to explore any steps required to make sure that people with Down syndrome who want to work can find work that is right for them. Fundamentally, we must make sure that people with Down syndrome maintain good health and receive the right education to support their transition into work. The Bill is an important and meaningful way of achieving that aim. It will provide those lasting foundations for people with Down syndrome to be successful.

Additionally, we are delivering a wide range of employment initiatives, such as dedicated disability employment advisers at our Jobcentre Plus sites. All these schemes, including the Access to Work fund and so on, will help to ensure that people with a learning disability have better opportunities in the workplace. Again, that is something that I am personally committed to.

[Lia Nici]

I thank my hon. Friend for the plans that are being put in place, but are there plans to ensure that people who work in the Department for Work and Pensions have the relevant training to understand the specific needs of people with Down syndrome and to help get them into work?

[Gillian Keegan]

I regularly meet the Minister for Disabled People and the Minister for Employment—the three of us are often together—to talk about how we can optimise opportunities for many people across our society, but particularly those with learning disabilities. The numbers are not good enough, and we know that we have more work to do. As I said in Committee, I will return to the issue of employment in developing the Down syndrome statutory guidance. We know that good work helps people to live happier, healthier and more independent lives.

On scope, as healthcare, education and housing are devolved matters, the Bill and guidance will cover England only. However, I know that there is real commitment to improving outcomes for people with Down syndrome across the whole of the United Kingdom, and I look forward to working with my counterparts in the devolved Administrations as we develop the guidance so that we can ensure that there is consistency of approach and inclusion for people with Down syndrome across the whole of the UK.

It has been a pleasure to work with my right hon. Friend the Member for North Somerset in supporting the Bill on behalf of everybody with Down syndrome and their families, including my own. Its passage so far represents the very best of the parliamentary process, with MPs working together cross-party for a common purpose. I very much look forward to the Bill’s successful passage through the Lords, which Lord Kamall will oversee. He will have heard the pleas from many Members about timing, to try to coincide with World Down Syndrome Day on 21 March. I commend the Bill to the House.

Oral Answers to Questions

Lia Nici Excerpts

Tuesday 18th January 2022 Commons Chamber

[Lia Nici (Great Grimsby) (Con)]

15. What steps his Department is taking to reduce the number of covid-19 hospital admissions.

[The Secretary of State for Health and Social Care (Sajid Javid)]

We have developed a globally recognised programme that combines boosters, testing and antivirals to protect the vulnerable and to reduce hospital admissions. Our “Get Boosted Now” campaign led to a huge increase in vaccination rates and we have successfully procured the highest number of antivirals per head in Europe. We are also employing the use of remote monitoring technology to enable more patients to get the care that they need at home rather than having to be admitted into hospital.

[Sajid Javid]

Yes, of course. The officials within my Department have carried out a wealth of analysis on case fatality rates in the vaccinated and unvaccinated populations. Recent data has shown that covid-19 case fatality rates for the over-80s are likely to be more than five times greater in the unvaccinated versus those who have had at least two doses.

My hon. Friend may be interested to know that, when I recently visited the intensive care unit dealing with covid patients in King’s College, the consultant in charge told me that he estimated that about 70% of his patients on that day were completely unvaccinated. It is clear, as we have seen especially in the past few weeks, that vaccinations save lives.

[Lia Nici]

I have a 90-year-old constituent who has been prevented from going to see his 89-year-old wife of 65 years. It took my intervention after 20 days of his being prevented from seeing her for him to be able to get into the hospital. Neither of them have covid. Will my right hon. Friend please instruct health trusts that, as we reduce the incidence of covid in hospitals, family members must be allowed to go and see their family in hospital?

[Sajid Javid]

I am very sorry to hear about what happened to my hon. Friend’s constituent. It cannot be right that people are unable to visit their loved ones while they are in hospital. It should not require the intervention of a Member of Parliament to do so. Allowing such visits should be an absolute priority in every trust, and I have recently raised this issue with the chief executive of the NHS. She has assured me that this message will be sent loud and clear to all NHS trusts.

Eye Health and Macular Disease

Lia Nici Excerpts

Tuesday 11th January 2022 Westminster Hall

[Lia Nici (Great Grimsby) (Con)]

I thank the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) for securing the debate. As he alluded to earlier, I have macular disease, and I want to speak about what macular disease is and its effects.

When I was diagnosed 20 years ago, my eye specialist told me that I was going blind. Anybody who does not really understand about going blind might think that one day the lights will switch off, but that is not actually the case. The macula is a particular part of the retina that deals with detail. Over time, it becomes very difficult for people to see in the centre of their vision; there is difficulty reading, recognising faces and writing. It poses a number of challenges, but there is life after a macular disease diagnosis. Hon. Members will notice that I am using my iPad—technology performs a huge service to people with issues such as mine.

I would like to talk about some of the causes. We have talked about diabetes and age-related macular degeneration, but it also happens to younger people. It happened to me when I was young, as secondary to high myopia. Councillor Daniel Westcott, a colleague and constituent of mine, was diagnosed at the age of 17 with Stargardt disease, which is a loss in the macular area of the eye. Despite it ending his career as a plasterer—he could no longer see enough detail—he trained as a teacher and is now working as both a personal trainer and a councillor. Those people who experience the shock and concern of being diagnosed can certainly still have a very positive life that contributes to society.

I want to talk about the importance of going to the optician. We have talked about ophthalmology, but as the hon. Member for Strangford said, it is going to the optician regularly that spots these serious issues. With the retina in particular, speed is of the utmost importance. I went to my optician because when I was reading I noticed that the lines on the page of my book had a dip in them. I went to the optician not thinking anything of it, but it was actually the start of the back of my eye bleeding and causing a bubble. Imagine looking through a window through a raindrop—that is the effect that starts to happen. If anybody hears of someone having that kind of issue, they must go to their optician, who will give them an urgent referral to the hospital. If they cannot get to the optician, they should go to accident and emergency straight away and explain; they will then get straight in to the eye specialist. My constituency is Great Grimsby—that is where I live—and Diana, Princess of Wales Hospital has a fantastic ophthalmology team. Mr Kotta, Mrs Bagga and the whole team are fantastic; the nurse specialists really are specialists, and they are fantastic at care and treatment.

It is incredibly important that we support technology companies being able to continue helping with this. In my case, 20 years ago there was no treatment for my eye condition. However, when it went into my second eye, there had thankfully been a lot of development in technology. I had 11 injections directly into my right eye in order to save my sight. Companies such as Regeneron and Novartis have produced medicines that go directly into the eye. If they had not been available, I would now be registered blind. The effects of those 11 injections meant that my eyes improved five lines on the acuity test. That is quite amazing, and it allowed me to continue to drive. I obviously still have some issues, and colleagues will know that they have to prod me because I do not always recognise them—especially on a dark night. Stem cell research is the real pinnacle, and will hopefully mean that people’s eyes will work better for them in the future.

I want to highlight computer technology, and in particular Apple computers. Twenty years ago Apple had the foresight to ensure that accessibility was built into their operating systems. If it was not for Apple’s technology and foresight, I could not have continued in my previous job of teaching, video production and camera operating. When a camera operator is told that they are no longer going to be able to see, that can be a little bit of a problem. Computer technology allowed me to continue to be able to do what I do, and Members can see that I am working with large text today. It is absolutely vital, and I say to other producers of computer operating systems and programming systems that they should really think about simple things to allow people to zoom in and to magnify. All those things are now on the market and they really do make a difference to people’s independence.

If someone does not lose all of their sight, it is very difficult for people to understand. They do not walk into things, and their peripheral vision is fine. It is the detail that is the problem. For a lot of people, that affects their independence. They can no longer read a telephone bill or look at something on the internet. If they love reading, they can no longer do that either. Writing is also affected because they cannot see what they are doing. There is much hilarity in our household when people say that I should become a professional prescription writer because they cannot read anything that I write any more.

Most important, for me, is the role of employers. When I was first diagnosed, my public sector employer—whom I will not embarrass by naming—was appalling. They were not supportive; in fact, they went into panic mode. I would like to say to employers that when somebody comes to you to say that they are having eye problems, do not go into panic mode, because they can continue to be a positive, important part of the team. It just means that they will need slightly different ways of working. I continued to run a television station, keeping a close eye on my editors and camera operators, who always used to say that I may have eye problems, but I could still see their mistakes.

The Royal National Institute of Blind People in particular was fantastic. Its staff will come and do a free assessment in the workplace and offer advice to the employer. I also thank the people at ACAS because when my employer was being downright dirty, they were fantastic in advising me in what I was able to do. Rather than people with eye or macular disease having issues and becoming vulnerable, they can actually become a positive and important part of the team—even more so than before their eye problems. I send this message out to employers: embrace the team member who has these issues, because they will continue to be a fantastic part of the workplace.

[Caroline Nokes (in the Chair)]

I thank the Member for that contribution. We now come to the Front-Bench spokespeople.

Health Incentives Scheme

Lia Nici Excerpts

Friday 22nd October 2021 Commons Chamber

[Lia Nici (Great Grimsby) (Con)]

Does my hon. Friend agree that this a fantastic new initiative and pilot, and that it is perhaps the forerunner to making everybody aware that the best way to protect the national health service is for us to have the healthiest lives possible and to make the healthiest choices possible, so that we have a national health service that is protected and that does not continue to be a national repair service?

[Maggie Throup]

My hon. Friend is exactly right. Obesity costs the NHS at least £6 billion. However, it is not just about the cost to the NHS, but the cost to individuals as well. People who are obese are more likely to have diabetes, cardiac disease and cancers, so this affects their lives. If we get it right for the NHS, we are getting it right for individuals as well.

NHS Dentistry: Lincolnshire

Lia Nici Excerpts

Wednesday 20th October 2021 Commons Chamber

[Lia Nici (Great Grimsby) (Con)]

In my short time as a Member of Parliament for greater Lincolnshire, in Great Grimsby, I have been able to solve lots of constituents’ problems, but the one I have not been able to solve is dental care. A large dental practice went bust and I seem to be involved in some sort of dark art when I ask what is happening with those patients. Nothing has happened, nearly two years down the line. Will the Minister consider them as well, because I have constituents in terrible situations and I am unable to get anywhere to solve this?

[Maria Caulfield]

I am happy to meet my hon. Friend to discuss that issue with her. She represents a coastal constituency, and this emphasises the point about where there seem to be gaps in provision.

I am pleased that we are being able to take specific action, both nationally and locally, to improve recruitment and retention, because that is key. This includes widening access to dental careers and utilising the skill mix in dental practices. It is not always the dentists who need to be used and we need to upskill some of the dental workers in dentistry too, so that we can understand the oral health needs of patients in specific communities. As part of that work, Health Education England is looking to address regional shortages by ensuring that training place numbers are better aligned with the needs of local populations and that we are targeting provision. I take the point made by my hon. Friend the Member for Sleaford and North Hykeham about a dental school and I will look at that suggestion. She rightly says that students tend to stay where they train, and we need to look at where the gaps are. The number of dental school places is increasing and we are getting more students through, but I will look at her suggestion.

I feel that I have not specifically addressed the situation in Lincolnshire as a whole, which is the subject of the debate, so let me reassure my hon. Friend that a number of measures are in place to address the issues there. We have introduced additional face-to-face weekend dental sessions from August this year through to March next year; there are dedicated urgent dental slots for 111 patients; and we are trying to address some specific local gaps in Mablethorpe by commissioning urgent NHS dental care sessions on a temporary basis. We also want to improve recruitment and retention specifically in my hon. Friend’s area. Health Education England is working in Lincolnshire to recruit newly trained dentists but should perhaps look at a dental school to support that effort even further.

My hon. Friend raised orthodontic issues, which are very important for young people’s health. NHS England Midlands and East has begun a procurement exercise to address some of the backlog. Patients with a clinical need to start treatment quickly will be contacted. I reassure the House that any patient who was referred before they turned 18 but has not yet started treatment will still get free treatment, even after their 18th birthday, because the backlogs are not their fault.

I know that I have not answered all my hon. Friend’s questions, but I hope she knows that we take this issue extremely seriously. The provision of dentistry is a complex policy area for which there is no quick solution, so I shall not make promises tonight that we cannot deliver, but we are serious about trying to address the issues. I hope I have been able to provide some reassurance that, although this issue is challenging, as the new Minister responsible for dentistry I am committed to playing my part in not only supporting the covid recovery but driving forward long-term improvements. We want to see a contract that is attractive for professionals and that ensures equality of access for all, across rural regions and coastal regions.

Baby Loss Awareness Week

Lia Nici Excerpts

Thursday 23rd September 2021 Commons Chamber

[James Sunderland]

I thank my good friend for his intervention. He is absolutely right. You often do not want to say anything, but you feel as though you should. You ask why you have not got children, and why others are having children and you are not. There is the expectation of one’s grandparents. It is a difficult business.

On one occasion, I was eating a piece of white toast in the kitchen and this mad, deranged woman grabbed it from me and said, “Don’t.” On another occasion, I was on exercises with my regiment, with the whole unit on parade—I was there with the brigadier on a big visit—and my phone rang. It was my wife, and she said, “Come home, honey; I’m ovulating.” Those words would put the fear of God into any man. But the worst thing of all is the Brazil nuts, chopped up with breakfast—absolutely horrible things. To this day, I have post-traumatic stress disorder from that.

[Lia Nici (Great Grimsby) (Con)]

I commend my hon. Friend for his absolute and utter honesty. Having gone through these kinds of experiences, I know the desperation of wanting to have children and then the absolute terror, as a women and a partner, when you are going through pregnancy, about whether you are going to be able to hear a heartbeat, feel that movement and know that everything is all right. Does he agree that the best thing we can do is to talk about this issue openly—I commend my hon. Friend the Member for Truro and Falmouth (Cherilyn Mackrory) for bringing it to the House—because that is the way we will all get through it together?

[James Sunderland]

I thank my good friend from Grimsby. I could not agree more. There is not much I can really add to that; she is absolutely right. From personal experience, seeing the heartbeat on the screen is worth all the effort and I would commend everyone just to keep going because dreams do come true.

Very briefly, as time is marching on, for couples going through IVF, please have respect for what they are doing. They are mortgaging themselves. It is about the money. It is about the anxiety—endless cycles in many cases. It is also about the heavy drugs, the mood swings, the overestimation of the ovaries and the injections in the stomach. It is pretty grim. So feel. Please support and be there for your friends and family who are going through it. There is devastation when it goes wrong and it does go wrong. Spare a thought for the heartache, for the hopes, the preparations, the fears and the tests. It rests, ultimately, on a drop of urine. It is absolutely brutal.

Having debated the horrible reality of baby loss today, what can we do? I am going to rattle through this very quickly. We need to support our loved ones, as I have said. As men or partners, we need to hug, to hold, to reassure and to listen.

--- Later in debate ---

[Angela Richardson]

I could not agree more. By the time I had got to my third baby, they realised that they needed to do more to make sure that postnatally I was in a much better position. In the debate last year, I talked about one of the babies I lost, in the second trimester; I asked for a test to be done, but the hospital did not do it. They just sent the foetus to the incinerator, and they had to apologise for it. I was left wondering for a long time what I had done wrong.

With my son, who is on the autism spectrum, I had post-natal depression and I did not take him to hospital with me. I spent years feeling guilty, because that is what happens to us as mums: we feel guilty for everything and we spend years making things up to our children. That is one of the things that I think we really need to address in looking after the mental health of mums, because it impacts not just on our children, but on their siblings, on our husbands and on family members who are not even in the same country as us.

[Lia Nici]

I commend my hon. Friend for talking so openly about her experiences. We talk about statistics and about how one in four pregnancies do not end in the way that we would like, but when we talk and when we look at items in the media, there is constant pressure on women—specifically women, although there is pressure on men as well. We are expected to be superwomen, we are expected to be super-mums and we are expected to be perfect, when actually we are all fallible human beings and we all need help.

We need to make sure that we talk about it. When I told friends that I had lost babies, I was shocked that it had affected virtually everybody—I would be surprised if it is not well over 90% of people who have experienced this. We need to talk openly with each other, make sure that we look after parents as well as children, before pregnancy but also after pregnancy, and make sure that it is not something that is shameful. Quite often, women will not talk about trying for babies, because they are worried about what their employer will do or say and it is a very private thing anyway.

It is also about the time afterwards. This is probably the one taboo left that we really do not talk about, because we feel like failures. Does my hon. Friend agree that we need to continue to fight for this and make sure that people do not feel that they are a failure when things do not always go right?

[Angela Richardson]

I thank my hon. Friend for her intervention and for giving me a bit of time to compose myself. I agree with her.

My hon. Friend commented about our having to be superwomen and have everything together. I did not get the help that I needed because I spent so long trying to be tough. It was months and months after I had given birth to my second baby before I even went to see a doctor, but I know that the midwife who was visiting me after I had given birth was concerned because she had been with me after my first delivery as well. I think she knew that I was not quite right. That is what I mean about missed opportunities: there were lots of points where people could have picked things up and I would not have got to quite the state that I was in.

What I want to do is encourage people who are watching today. Sands is a wonderful stillbirth and neonatal death charity. Its website has such a host of information that people can use to get the support that they need.

Last year, I said to those who have suffered baby loss: please be patient with yourself and be kind to yourself. It is really hard to do—if you are driven, like I am, with the relentless desire to have a family, it is really difficult to stop. I was given very good advice to give my body and mind time to rest and recover, and I did not listen. I say to anybody out there who is listening today: please listen to my story. I hope that it will give you some insight and some food for thought.

I thank everybody who has participated today. I do hope that the Minister will take away those thoughts and comments about how we can better support women and their families with mental health.

Vaccine Roll-out

Lia Nici Excerpts

Thursday 21st January 2021 Commons Chamber

[Matt Hancock]

I am glad to say that I can reassure the hon. Lady that, having looked into the data that underpins the article in The Guardian that I think she is referring to, it supports the data on which we have been basing our decision to move to a 12-week dosing schedule—12 weeks from the first to the second dose. The Government chief scientific adviser was asked about this by the media yesterday and explained clearly why we were able to make that decision, because around 89% efficacy comes from between days 14 and 21 after the first dose. Of course we are looking at this data, and we are in fact measuring the efficacy here at home by matching the data between those who have been vaccinated and those who test positive. We are monitoring that and will publish that data as soon as it is clinically valid. This is an important question, but I am glad to be able to reassure the hon. Lady that the headlines that she read in The Guardian are not quite right.

[Lia Nici (Great Grimsby) (Con) [V]]

The NHS teams across North East Lincolnshire are working hard caring for patients with covid, and are now doing a fantastic job administering the much-welcomed vaccines. Will the Secretary of State join me in congratulating them, and does he have plans to introduce a personal vaccination record for travel and other purposes?

[Matt Hancock]

I am delighted that in the Humber, Coast and Vale NHS area 142,000 people have now been vaccinated, and I am very grateful to my hon. Friend and NHS colleagues and colleagues across the House for that huge effort. I congratulate the local NHS in North East Lincolnshire on the work they are doing in getting these vaccines out. I was also able to talk to some North Lincolnshire colleagues in the NHS who are doing a fantastic job, because they have managed to get to all their care homes, which is absolutely terrific. Lincolnshire is doing a great job with the vaccine roll-out.



On my hon. Friend’s specific question about travel and the link to vaccination, it is too early to have a firm view, because we have to see the impact of vaccination on the transmission of the disease. Obviously, when someone is vaccinated, that event goes into their health record, which is held by the NHS; it is recorded so they can demonstrate that they have been vaccinated if needs be. However, for the time being, we are being very cautious on travel because of the risk of new variants, especially if there are new variants where the efficacy of the vaccine is lower.

Covid-19 Update

Lia Nici Excerpts

Tuesday 10th November 2020 Commons Chamber

[Matt Hancock]

Of course we recognise exactly that, and the hon. Gentleman puts it well. Ministers are working with faith leaders on how we can come to an arrangement, as soon as possible, to allow both communal prayer, which was discussed in the House as we brought in the regulations relating to the lockdown, and all other aspects of nurturing worship.

[Lia Nici (Great Grimsby) (Con)]

Diana, Princess of Wales Hospital in Grimsby currently has twice as many covid patients in intensive care units as we had at the height of the previous lockdown. Does my right hon. Friend agree that, despite the very good news regarding vaccines, it is essential that people in England adhere to the lockdown rules so that we can get the reproduction rate down and reopen our businesses as quickly as possible?

[Matt Hancock]

Yes, my hon. Friend puts it absolutely right, and that is the reason for the caution we in Government are showing. There is understandable excitement at the news of the vaccine, but we are cautious, because the single most important thing is that, until we have a vaccine—and we do not have a vaccine yet—people have to follow the rules in order to keep people safe. That is true across Grimsby and the whole country. I know that the team at the hospital in Grimsby are working incredibly hard in difficult circumstances, and it is tougher in Grimsby this second time than it was the first time around. I pay tribute to and thank them. The best thing we can all do to support them is to follow the rules, do our best and play our part to reduce the transmission of this disease.