No-deal Brexit: Schedule of Tariffs

Lady Hermon Excerpts

Monday 7th October 2019 Commons Chamber

[Conor Burns]

My hon. Friend yields to no one in his understanding of and expertise in Canada. I understand that not least because he never tires of telling us. I pay tribute to him for his work as the Prime Minister’s trade envoy. I am probably not allowed to say this at the Dispatch Box, but I hope that he will take up that position again in due course, because no one in this House is better qualified to do it. I am happy to confirm to my hon. Friend that we remain determined to come to terms with Canada. It is one of our closest allies, and we share so much in common in terms of values. A free trade agreement between us will be to the mutual benefit and prosperity of all our citizens.

[Lady Hermon (North Down) (Ind)]

Dairy Council Northern Ireland represents the four companies that account for over 90% of the milk collected from farms in Northern Ireland each year. We are talking about 3,000 farming families in Northern Ireland. I want the Minister to address the warning given by the chief executive of Dairy Council Northern Ireland, who said today:

“If we don't get a Brexit deal and cannot transport raw milk south, without significant delays and/or certification requirements, then our industry is facing a crisis of epic proportions”.

How will the Minister attempt to reassure dairy farmers in Northern Ireland?

[Conor Burns]

We are still seeking to come to terms and get a deal by 31 October. That is the Government’s ambition and, as the hon. Lady will know, I am more alive than most to the situation in Northern Ireland. The situation there is unique and complex, and I hope that our European friends would demonstrate some of the spirit of compromise that has been demonstrated in various parts of the House, including by Opposition Back Benchers, in helping us to get to that deal and to avoid the difficulties that she so rightly identifies.

United States Tariffs: Steel and Aluminium

Lady Hermon Excerpts

Report stage: House of Commons
Monday 12th March 2018 Commons Chamber

[Dr Fox]

The US Department of Defence has made it quite clear that it fully understands the contribution that the United Kingdom makes. Its report made it clear that it did not believe the use of section 232 was the appropriate means of dealing with concerns about global overcapacity. I hope that the good sense of the Department of Defence will be diffused throughout Washington.

[Lady Hermon (North Down) (Ind)]

May I commend to the Secretary of State the experience of Bombardier? In recent months, it risked losing thousands of jobs because of unfairly imposed US tariffs of 300%. The winning formula for defeating that proposal—and having it unanimously thrown out in the US—involved a combination of trade unions, management, local MPs and Ministers right across the Government, along with the personal intervention of the Prime Minister when she spoke to President Trump at the Davos economic summit. That strategy worked for Bombardier, so may I commend it to the Secretary of State and suggest that it is repeated in order to protect the steel industry in the United Kingdom?

[Dr Fox]

We have had, as I said earlier, a wide range of contacts in a wide range of areas. The International Trade Commission was ultimately the vehicle that sorted out the Bombardier case, so there are still in the United States those elements of an independent, free trading policy that we can rely on, on occasions when they are needed. It was not just the politics ultimately, hard though we tried for Bombardier, but the American mechanism itself—the ITC—that has a lot to be commended for.

Trade Bill

Lady Hermon Excerpts

Tuesday 9th January 2018 Commons Chamber

[Dr Fox]

First, the fact that there is a large EU trade surplus with the UK is one reason why it is in the interests of the EU to want a good and open trading agreement with the UK. Secondly, on my hon. Friend’s point about the direction of travel, it is certainly true that the proportion of UK exports that go to the EU has diminished from some 54% at the beginning of the millennium to about 42% today, so it is already true that the UK is exporting into other growing parts of the global economy.

[Lady Hermon (North Down) (Ind)]

I want to bring the Secretary of State back to legislative consent. He gave some advice to the SNP Members, but he has more difficulty in Northern Ireland, where we have not had a functioning Assembly for a year. That is totally frustrating for the people of Northern Ireland, but how do the Government think they are going to obtain legislative consent from the Northern Ireland Assembly—or are they preparing for direct rule in Northern Ireland? It is one or the other.

[Dr Fox]

The hon. Lady gives me a good opportunity to pay tribute to my right hon. Friend the Member for Old Bexley and Sidcup (James Brokenshire), who stood down from the post of Secretary of State for Northern Ireland yesterday, for his work in trying to achieve a deal in Northern Ireland. We all hope that there will be a functioning Government that the UK Government are able to deal with, because it is in the best interests of all concerned in Northern Ireland that we get a functioning democratic Government in Stormont.

--- Later in debate ---

[Dr Fox]

My right hon. Friend is right. That agreement was the first multilateral trade agreement for decades, which shows how difficult it is to get such multilateral agreements. It does reduce friction for customs arrangements worldwide, but although, as he said, the benefits are great, it is still in the best interests of the UK to come to an open and comprehensive trading agreement with the EU itself.

The Bill provides powers for HMRC to collect and share trade data, as has been mentioned. Those powers include the one in clause 7 that allows primary legislation to be amended to provide for HMRC to collect exporter information. Clause 8 will grant HMRC the authority to share data with those bodies that require those data to carry out a range of public functions relating to trade. Currently, HMRC collects a range of data from import and export declarations that is shared with the European Commission, as well as with other Departments and public bodies, under information gateways governed by EU law. Such gateways will, of course, cease to apply once we leave the European Union, and numerous functions that are currently carried out by the European Commission will be transferred back to the United Kingdom. HMRC will therefore need to be granted the legal authority to request data from exporters and share that data to ensure the continued smooth operation of the UK’s trade frameworks and clear and informed policy making from my Department, as I said to the hon. Member for Livingston (Hannah Bardell). The powers in clauses 7 and 8 will grant that authority, and nothing more.

[Lady Hermon]

rose—

[Dr Fox]

I give way once more to the hon. Lady, whose charms I cannot resist.

[Lady Hermon]

Thank goodness I am blessed with bundles of patience. I am exceedingly grateful to the Secretary of State for giving way. I am really worried about clause 7, which is extremely broad and gives enormous powers to HMRC. The Secretary of State will be well aware that there are hundreds of farms that straddle the border in Northern Ireland. Under clause 7, if those farms trade in machinery and cattle across the border—as they do daily—they will be obliged to give information to HMRC. The clause says that “any person” may be asked for such information. Would Sinn Féin MPs who represent border constituencies be obliged to give HMRC such information, as well as farmers?

[Dr Fox]

When we discussed this proposal with the Treasury and HMRC, we were keen to ensure that it applied to information related only to those elements needed to continue what we currently do and to gain the information that we believe we need for better trade policy making. HMRC was insistent that before it made any changes we restricted the power as much as possible, because HMRC did not want to become a huge bureaucratic organisation, as the hon. Lady suggests. We intend to define the power tightly when we set the regulations. I have had discussions with HMRC on the basis that we will not want to carry out a hugely bureaucratic exercise. Nevertheless, it makes sense for us to know exactly how much we are importing and exporting and which businesses are doing that. That is the basis for good future policy making.

The time will come when we can begin to forge new trading relationships around the world, building a truly global, outward-facing Britain—a country at the very heart of international trade—but this Bill is not about those new relationships. Instead, it is about preserving and ensuring continuity. We want to protect the access to global markets that is so vital to thousands of British businesses. We want to abide by our obligations to those economies that have already negotiated free trade agreements and other trade agreements with the European Union. The Bill grants us the powers necessary to achieve those aims.

We present the Bill for Second Reading with an eye to the future. It is explicitly designed to prepare for our departure from the European Union, while building the foundations that will facilitate successful future trading relations with the wider world. I hope Members from all parties recognise the value of the Bill and the measures it contains, as well as its importance in helping to provide much-needed certainty to businesses and consumers as our departure from the EU next year approaches. Trade is an issue that transcends party politics: it is an intrinsic part of our very way of life and our prosperity. The Bill is just the beginning, but it is a first step towards a stable, secure and prosperous future for the United Kingdom and our friends beyond.

--- Later in debate ---

[Hannah Bardell (Livingston) (SNP)]

It is a pleasure to speak on behalf of the Scottish National party. I will do my best not to take up too much of your or the House’s time, Madam Deputy Speaker.

The UK Government have an opportunity in the Bill to show leadership, to engage widely and to consult with devolved nations, business and other stakeholders about what should be contained within it, but it seems like a paper-thin effort—and not a very great effort at that. Given the magnitude of Brexit and its potentially damaging ramifications, this pretty paper-thin Bill is an affront to democracy and lacking in any real detail—not a great start as we enter this new territory.

A hard Tory Brexit would be disastrous for the economy and completely undermine the Scottish Government’s efforts to boost Scotland’s trading position. We found out just a few moments ago that the UK Government have dropped their promise to amend devolution aspects of the European Union (Withdrawal) Bill and that they plan to do it in the House of Lords. That is shameful, because the Secretary of State for Scotland made a promise on the Floor of the House to the people of Scotland and Scottish MPs.

We have significant concerns about trust in the Government and about whether they can stick to their word. Regarding withdrawal, the Scottish Parliament should not have its powers in any way diminished. As we know, the Government cannot be trusted. The Law Society of Scotland, for instance, says:

“We are concerned by the extensive scope of delegated ministerial powers under the Act, mirroring concerns previously identified in relation to the use of Henry VIII powers in the context of the European Union (Withdrawal) Bill. It is not clear why the Government considers such wide powers to be necessary.”

It would be interesting to hear from the Secretary of State what his take on that is. In its excellent briefing, the Law Society of Scotland refers to “Clarity of drafting”, which it says is

“central to good law-making.”

It says:

“Under clause 2(2) an international trade agreement means a ‘free trade agreement’, however ‘free trade agreement’ is not itself defined.”

That is a very important point. In all these discussions about free trade agreements, the actual definition is not given. The briefing points out that clause 2(2) also

“refers to ‘an international agreement that mainly relates to trade, other than a free trade agreement’. However, ‘mainly’ does not grant sufficient certainty in terms of interpretation.”

I am no legal eagle, but I am sure that my hon. and learned Friend the Member for Edinburgh South West (Joanna Cherry) will give us her take on matters later.

[Lady Hermon]

There is a very significant omission from the definition section in clause 4, which relates to Northern Ireland. When I asked the Secretary of State about that in an intervention, he repeated the Government’s mantra that there is hope of restoring the Northern Ireland Executive. If there were indeed that hope, one would expect to see some reference to the devolved authority meaning the First Minister and Deputy First Minister, hopefully acting jointly, but there is zero mention of those Ministers. The clause defines a devolved authority as “a Northern Ireland department”. The Government, I suggest, are clearly preparing for direct rule, and I am deeply concerned about that.

[Hannah Bardell]

I share the hon. Lady’s concern. It seems very much as though the Government are making policy on a wing and a prayer.

It is just over 20 years since the people of Scotland voted for devolution, for progress, to move forward and have power over some, but not all, of their own affairs. In 1997, voters in Scotland backed the creation of a Scottish Parliament by 74% to 26% and voted by 63% to 37% for it to have tax-raising powers—powers that we are very proud to be using.

The Scottish Parliament’s pillars of establishment include accountability: it is answerable to the people of Scotland. It should be open and encourage participation. It should be accessible, and should involve the people of Scotland in its decisions as much as possible. I remind the House of that not to give a history lesson, but to highlight what the people of Scotland voted for and what was delivered in devolution, on a cross-party basis. This Bill, and more generally Brexit, are not what Scotland, or indeed the rest of the UK, voted for. The Bill threatens devolution in Scotland, and it threatens the vote that took place 20 years ago.