ISIL in Syria

Kirsty Blackman Excerpts

Wednesday 2nd December 2015 Commons Chamber

[Amanda Solloway (Derby North) (Con)]

There are some occasions in life that we dread, but we know we will have to face them, even if we do not want to. Today is one of those days. Like all my colleagues, I do not relish the thought of extending the airstrikes—one innocent life lost is one too many—yet I find myself ready to vote for airstrikes in Syria. My mind is very clear: there cannot ever be a justification to allow terrorists to wreak terror and fear across this or any other nation. It just is not right.

Earlier this year, I spoke in the House about the tragic shooting of one of my constituents, Scott Chalkley from Chaddesden, who was shot dead by terrorists while he was on holiday in Tunisia. That was followed by the tragedy in Paris, where the lives of people who were out enjoying themselves were ended. The lives of loved ones were taken, and the lives of others have been changed dramatically, both physically and emotionally. When such things happen, they bring home to us just how vulnerable we all really are. Such events take place all over the world, and I am clear that we cannot stand by and allow that to happen. Having listened to the Prime Minister on Monday and today, I am satisfied that intervention through airstrikes is absolutely necessary to protect our way of life so that we can all live reasonably as human beings.

I recently went on a trip to Jordan to visit refugee camps and host communities. I was really struck by the stories relayed about people fleeing their homes and leaving behind what many of us take for granted—such as a roof over our heads and the freedom to walk down the street—purely to ensure that their family members could stay alive. One mother told me that she fled after the death of one of her children, to safeguard the lives of her other children from ending so abruptly. It became clear that all the families I spoke to wanted to return home. We must ensure that we help to rebuild Syria, so that Syrians can return home to the country they love. I know that will take time and I feel great sadness that we need to intervene in order to ensure that everyone present, all my family, all my constituents, every person living in this country, refugees and, indeed, people all over the world can live a life free of fear.

[Kirsty Blackman (Aberdeen North) (SNP)]

Will the hon. Lady give way?

[Amanda Solloway]

I have nearly finished.

I am the mother of two grown-up daughters and I want them to have children of their own who will run free and not live in fear of being struck down while at play. It is essential that we help where we can and in any way we can. All families deserve that, and it is our duty as elected Members to deliver it. With a heavy heart, I support the airstrikes, but I will vote with full confidence that it is the right thing to do.

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[Steve Double (St Austell and Newquay) (Con)]

I am a recently elected Member, and one of the questions that I asked myself before putting myself up for election was whether I would be ready to stand up and be counted on a day like today. I am pleased to be able to add my voice to the debate, and to set out my position. Deciding how to vote on this motion marks one of the most serious and solemn occasions in my life, and I have agonised over how I will vote this evening for longer than I have about virtually any other decision that I have had to make so far.

Let us be clear about what we are deciding on today. This is not a new conflict, but an extension of a conflict in which we are already engaged. Daesh is already our mortal enemy: it hates us and everything that we stand for. What is at stake here is our national security. However, to me, it makes no sense whatever for us to be willing to attack Daesh from the air in Iraq while not being prepared to follow its members into Syria. They are our enemy, and they remain our enemy wherever they are to be found.

We also need to note that extending our air raids into Syria is only one part of the full package of measures in the motion. We all want peace in Syria and the region, and I am pleased that the motion commits us not only to the bombing but to a continuing involvement in finding a political solution in Syria. We want an end to the refugee crisis that has seen thousands upon thousands of Syrian people risking their lives to escape from the terror of Daesh. We want to be able to begin the work of reconstruction in Syria, and to see the country and the region rebuilt and returned to economic stability. The motion commits our country to playing a part in all those things. However, none of them will be possible while Daesh remains able to continue its campaign of terror in that country.

In coming to my decision on how to vote, along with wanting to see a comprehensive package of measures, I had two specific questions to which I needed answers. These were reflected in many of the emails I received from my constituents. First, will extending our military involvement into Syria increase or decrease the risk to our nation? We have to understand that we are already at the top of the list of targets for Daesh; there have already been seven known attacks planned on our country. The reason we have not witnessed scenes of horror on the streets of this country like those seen in Paris is not because we are not a target; it is down to the incredible and excellent work of our security services, to whom we should be eternally grateful. This threat will not go away, or decrease, if we do nothing.

[Kirsty Blackman]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Steve Double]

I will carry on if I can, please, as I am nearly out of time.

My second specific concern related to the risk of civilian casualties. None of us wants to see civilians casualties resulting from the action we take, but we have to face the fact that there are already civilian casualties in Syria as a result of Daesh’s actions. Thousands of people are being murdered, terrorised and enslaved as a result of its activity. Unfortunately, there are nearly always civilian casualties when we engage in war, but I believe that Daesh is already killing more civilians in Syria than are ever likely to be caught up in our aerial campaign. Not attacking Daesh will result in more and more civilian casualties. I am comforted to learn that, in the 15 months we have been bombing in Iraq, there have been no reported civilian casualties. That gives me confidence.

Some people say that this is not our fight, and that we should keep out of it and not get involved, but it is already our fight. Our people have already been killed on the beach in Tunisia, and British people were caught up in the attacks in Paris—and it will not end there. This is our fight, and I believe that we should stand shoulder to shoulder with our allies. I will vote with the Government and for the motion this evening.

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[Dr Sarah Wollaston (Totnes) (Con)]

I have the greatest respect for all colleagues in all parties who have spoken so eloquently against military action in Syria. The right hon. Member for Gordon (Alex Salmond) spoke passionately about the risks of being drawn into a vicious civil war. That is why I voted against taking action in Syria two years ago. However, I believe that this has gone beyond a civil war and that ISIS is bringing the fight to us and would do so again on the streets of Britain as it has on the beaches of Tunisia and in Paris. This is an enemy with which there can be no dialogue. This is an enemy that has perpetrated enslavement, rape, child rape, torture and mass murder throughout the territories that it now controls. I believe that there is a compelling case for us not only to stand with our allies tonight, but to stand with the United Nations as it calls for us to take every action that we can against Daesh. I believe that there is also a case for standing with the civilians on the ground, given that our military action against Daesh in Iraq has so far helped to push it back, and to prevent the kind of atrocities that we have been witnessing across Syria and Iraq today.

[Kirsty Blackman]

Airstrikes, by their nature, are intended to inflict death, pain and suffering on people and families, some of whom will be innocent. Will someone please tell me how this action will stop new people becoming radicalised, how it will stop new terrorists, and how it will improve the human rights situation on the ground?

[Dr Wollaston]

I thank the hon. Lady for her intervention, because I think that it goes to the heart of the matter—and the heart of the matter, I would say to her, is that people are already suffering and being tortured throughout these territories. I would say to her that the action we have taken so far in Iraq—very careful, measured action—has, in fact, reduced the kind of civilian casualties to which she has referred. I am wrestling with this, just as she is, on behalf of my constituents, and I would say that the majority of my constituents who have contacted me agree with her. It is, therefore, with a very heavy heart that I am trying to make the case to them for my belief that action is now not only in our national interest, but in the interest of the civilians who risk being taken over by an evil that is beyond our imagining, here in the comfortable world that we inhabit in the UK.

I would say to the hon. Lady that these people have no hesitation whatsoever in perpetrating the most barbaric atrocities. I would point to the Yazidi women and girls—more than 5,000 of them—who have been kidnapped and are being held in conditions of enforced slavery, and, indeed, to child rape, which is allowed by Daesh. I would ask the hon. Lady whether she would like to spare civilians across Iraq and Syria that fate—the fate that awaits them. But I agree that these are very heavy considerations.

I would also say, as the proud daughter of an air force family, that our air forces are already putting their lives on the line in the skies above Iraq. I would like to call on the Leader of the Opposition—but he is no longer in the Chamber—to reflect on how much it will mean to the forces’ families who are following the debate today to know that they cannot count on his support. I think that although we all take, respectfully, different views about the risks, or indeed the consequences, of extending our action to Syria, it is essential for him to state unequivocally his support for our armed forces in the skies above Iraq.

For the benefit of any of us who are considering how to vote, let me focus for a moment on the consequences of inaction. Our first responsibility in the House is to protect the citizens of this country, and I believe that it is only a matter of time before mass casualty attacks such as those that we have witnessed on the streets of Paris and around the world are perpetrated in the UK. I think that we must all ask ourselves whether there is a greater sin in omission than in commission. I feel, very strongly, that there is now a compelling case for us to be able to look in the eye the families of those who may lose their lives in future, and to be able to say that we did absolutely everything we could to diminish the powers of this evil organisation.

This is the fascist war of our generation. We had to take action against fascism in Europe, and I think there is a compelling case for us to say that we have done everything we can today.