Holocaust Memorial Bill

Kirsten Oswald Excerpts

2nd reading
Wednesday 28th June 2023 Commons Chamber

[Kirsten Oswald (East Renfrewshire) (SNP)]

I am pleased to speak in this debate to put on the record my party’s firm commitment to ensuring that the holocaust and subsequent genocides are not forgotten. We must take steps to actively remember. Because of that, part of the memorial needs to be focused on learning. The particular memorial that the Bill deals with is to be situated in London. I do not have a strong view about where it should be in London, but I have no objection to the Government’s proposal, given that I represent East Renfrewshire—a constituency hundreds of miles away in a different country altogether. It is reasonable that I look to those who are closer.

I appreciate the range of views that have been expressed, but the thread that runs through this debate is one that we all take an interest in, regardless of our own geographies and the range of views on the detail. We all support the principle of taking practical steps to ensure that holocaust remembrance is made possible. I am sure that none of us thinks differently. That matters. The truth is that we need to reflect. We need to think about how to make sure that the cold reality of what happened is not lost or diluted as time passes. The remaining survivors are fewer and fewer with every year that passes. That in itself means that we need to take practical steps to ensure that history is preserved and remembered.

[Christine Jardine (Edinburgh West) (LD)]

The hon. Lady is giving a powerful speech about something that is not just practically and politically important, but emotionally important. I believe there is a great emotional need in this country to do something to recognise the suffering of the holocaust on behalf of those citizens of this country who are survivors of it. Does she agree that we could argue forever about location, but we have a location, we have a plan and what is important is that it now goes ahead as quickly as possible?

[Kirsten Oswald]

I thank the hon. Lady for that intervention. I agree with every word she said. She is spot-on when she talks about the emotional, human side of this issue. We are talking about human history—a history of individuals, families and friends—not about some unfathomable number of people who were murdered by the Nazis because of their identity. It is about how we protect and preserve these individual histories, even when the people who could give first-hand testimony are no longer with us.

I have heard the different views. We must respect those and still find a way for everyone to move forward. The Chief Rabbi has spoken about the worry that holocaust survivors have expressed to him, describing the panic in their voices as they say that they fear the world will forget in the course of time. Karen Pollock, chief executive of the Holocaust Educational Trust, has said that time is running out; survivors will not be with us forever, and many who dreamed of taking their family to the memorial have, unfortunately, passed away. She said that those who are still with us hope to see the day that the memorial is complete, and pointed out that it is important to the liberators as well. She and the Chief Rabbi make very strong points.

The Holocaust Memorial Commission was asked what needed to be done to preserve the memory of the holocaust, and obviously a significant conversation went on, but that was nearly 10 years ago, and here we are in some kind of limbo while the arguments continue and the positions probably become more entrenched, because that is the nature of these things. As I said, I do not have an especially strong view on where a memorial should be located, but I do have a very strong view that we should not still be in a holding pattern nearly 10 years on. We need to make progress.

We need to move things along and make sure that in doing so, we take into account the views of survivors and the Jewish community. I was pleased to hear the hon. Member for Carmarthen East and Dinefwr (Jonathan Edwards) refer to the closure of the Jewish Museum in London because of funding problems. We need to think about that as well, because the museum’s collection includes the testimony of holocaust survivors, and hearing those testimonies may become more difficult. All those things coming together suggests to me that we need to get on with delivering the memorial and the learning centre, to make sure that active remembrance and education are possible and accessible.

We need to make sure that the voices of those who survived are accessible. I have seen at first hand the profound impact that hearing from survivors, Henry and the late Ingrid Wuga, had on children in my constituency. The holocaust is certainly not the vague memory of some moment in history in the community where I live; it is part of the living memory of many families. I can well understand why people correctly have a very strong view that we need to preserve the testimonies. A holocaust memorial could be a powerful tool for doing that. It needs to be able to make history come to life, so that we can understand better.

I was fortunate to be able to visit Yad Vashem a number of years ago. Like the hon. Member for Wigan (Lisa Nandy) said of her visits to Auschwitz, I will carry the memory of my visit to Yad Vashem with me forever—seeing the faces of individual people who had been living perfectly ordinary, pedestrian lives before being plunged into unimaginable horror; seeing their shoes and their abandoned spectacles. It was a very powerful experience. That is why my colleagues and I support the construction of this centre.

When I was looking at the Yad Vashem website earlier today, I noticed that on this day—28 June—in 1941, Romanian and German soldiers, police, and masses of residents participated in an assault on the Jews of Iasi. Thousands of Jews were murdered in their homes and in the streets; thousands more were arrested, and the next day many were shot. The survivors of that assault, as well as other Jews rounded up from all parts of Iasi, were loaded on to sealed boxcars and transported. During that journey, thousands more perished from heat or suffocation. Over 10,000 Jews were killed.

That is why we need to get on with the memorial. These details—these threads of history—cannot be lost. This must go hand in hand with other initiatives that are already doing powerful work, such as the Lessons from Auschwitz project, which has had such an impact on schools in my area, as have Vision Schools Scotland and the excellent Gathering the Voices programme—which does exactly that, capturing the voices of those who survived. All those have a place in the fabric of how we remember, and the memorial can play a vital part in that as well. I think that in Scotland it would be welcomed as one of a range of ways of ensuring that this information is accessible to people.

I hope that the memorial will remember Jane Haining, a Scottish schoolmistress of whom I have spoken often here, who died at Auschwitz after refusing to leave the Jewish children in her care. She has been named as Righteous Among the Nations at Yad Vashem, and will also be memorialised by the installation of a Stolpersteine in Edinburgh, thanks to an initiative from Angus Robertson MSP, the Scottish Government’s Cabinet Secretary for Constitution, External Affairs and Culture.

That story of Jane Haining—standing up for others because she knew that what was happening was wrong—could not be more resonant today. For us to know that the construction of a holocaust memorial is under way while atrocities continue in too many places across the world—the hon. Member for Worthing West (Sir Peter Bottomley) spoke to us about that—should give us pause for thought, and make us wish to proceed apace. In China, for instance, Uyghur Muslims are persecuted, sterilised, enslaved and forced to live in labour camps. The lessons we can take from a memorial could not be more relevant to the situations that they and too many others are facing. We need to ensure that we reflect on the lessons of the past.

As the Holocaust Educational Trust pointed out in its excellent briefing for today’s debate, this kind of facility also allows us to better confront the contemporary rise of antisemitism. I think it important that we acknowledge the rising tide of extremist views, including holocaust denial. The Community Security Trust found last year that antisemitic incidents had reached a record high, with a 49% increase in such incidents in the first six months of 2021. Let us be clear: the climate is increasingly intolerant and hateful. Sickening and public displays of antisemitism are increasing both in the UK and overseas. Nowhere is immune, and we now also have to deal with the amplification of holocaust denial and distortion, conspiracy and misinformation in the online space.

To deal with that, the most powerful tool in our arsenal is education, which is why the learning element of the memorial matters so much. The facts of what happened could not be more resonant in the here and now. I hope that we can agree to proceed with the plan today.

Holocaust Memorial Bill

Kirsten Oswald Excerpts

Committee of the whole House
Wednesday 22nd May 2024 Commons Chamber

[The Second Deputy Chairman of Ways and Means (Mr Nigel Evans)]

Order. As I said, the conclusion of the debate is at six minutes past seven. There is clearly a bit more time, so perhaps time to take interventions and so on.

[Kirsten Oswald (East Renfrewshire) (SNP)]

It is a pleasure to speak in this debate on behalf of the SNP. It is perhaps slightly unexpected for some that I am standing here, but anyone who is aware of the areas of interest that I pursue here will be less surprised. I will go through some of the amendments and new clauses, and share some things that I think are worth pulling out. The comments made so far have been profoundly helpful in teasing out some of the details.

The hon. Member for Worthing West (Sir Peter Bottomley) spoke very well about the importance of education. That is the key point of amendment 6 and something I have spoken about often in this place: the necessity of a focus on education and making sure that the testimony of survivors is captured in a way that will ensure it is available to generations who come after us. Through initiatives like Vision Schools Scotland, or working with organisations like the Anne Frank Trust or the Holocaust Educational Trust, we can see the impact of education. The necessity of marrying up education with the memorial is a profoundly helpful idea. We will not be able to take the lessons of the past, which we talk about so easily, if we do not make concrete efforts to make it a reality when we say that we never want to see it again.

Amendment 1, tabled by the hon. Member for Carlisle (John Stevenson), makes a reasonable point, which is that it would be sensible to be sure that the costs are properly accounted for and that there is an appropriate level of control. That is a key point. This is, rightly, an ambitious project, so his amendment is an interesting one. His point about potential private donations is interesting in ensuring the ability for the project to move forward in an appropriately ambitious way. I am sure the Minister will share further information on all of that.

On amendments 2, 3 and 5, the hon. Member for Cities of London and Westminster (Nickie Aiken) spoke very powerfully about her local community, as well as the Jewish community. How all those things come together is very important. She spoke very passionately and sincerely about her desire for a consultation. I understand why she is so concerned about that. My own personal concern, which weighs on me slightly, is that that would also mean more time would elapse. Her amendments made sense: she is looking to add some clarity to the specifics, such as where restrictions relating to the land might be removed—the Minister was helpful in trying to clarify that—and what the overall footprint would be. That will be allocated and it does matter, regardless of where it is going to happen.

I understand the need for clarity and reassurance for residents and other users of, for instance, Victoria Tower Gardens, and I understand why the hon. Lady wants that level of confidence to be provided for the people who live in this community. I imagine that, given the kind of memorials that are located in that particular park, people in general would want to take comfort from the fact that they could be protected in an appropriate way. Surely, though, it is possible for us to have a memorial and an education centre and to protect those existing memorials. The hon. Member for Worthing West spoke earlier about the state of repair of the Buxton Memorial Fountain. Perhaps there needs to be a bigger conversation about these issues.

As is clear from the Bill’s “Extent, commencement and short title”, it is an England and Wales Bill, which is why some people might not have expected to see me rise to speak. It concerns a planning matter that relates to a different country, from my perspective, so I will not comment on the details of, for instance, the planning and location issues raised by the hon. Member for Carlisle. What I will say is that I am here today only because I think it profoundly important for us to see concrete proposals that can be implemented as soon as possible to deliver a Holocaust memorial and learning centre. We cannot lose sight of that, and it should not be lost among the—admittedly also important—details. The territorial extent provision in clause 3 speaks for itself, so I will not go there.

The hon. Member for Carlisle talked about security. None of us need to look too far to appreciate the need for us to think seriously about the security provisions that will be necessary. The world is increasingly polarised and we need to ensure that everyone is secure, and that will be particularly important in this instance. I am not sure whether new clause 1 is flexible enough to allow for the necessary measures—which will surely change as times change—to be amended without undue delay, but no doubt the hon. Member thought about that when he tabled the new clause. I am sure that other Members share my concern about the spikes in hate crime, including the frightening spike in antisemitism incidents. We know that, regrettably, these spikes have happened in the past as well, and any security arrangements will have to be able to cope with changeable times.

As for new clause 2, tabled by the hon. Member for Cities of London and Westminster, we have been down this road many times, and I wonder whether the measures that she has proposed will cause further delay. Some people may say that it would not be appropriate to rush in, and of course that is true, but I do not think anyone could reasonably accuse this project of having been dealt with in a rush. Let me say, as a Scottish MP who has no jurisdiction in this geographical area, that this is a really important matter, so by all means let there be further consideration, but can we just get on with it?

[The Second Deputy Chairman]

I call the shadow Minister.

--- Later in debate ---

[Kirsten Oswald]

I am glad to be able to contribute today on behalf of my party on this important Bill, albeit that the Bill seeks specifically to build in London, far from my own constituency and far from Scotland. It is also, significantly, a planning-related issue. For both those reasons, I would usually rule myself out of contributing. However, the principle of having this Holocaust memorial matters. The opportunity to visit the memorial and the importance of diverse voices in support and the broadest range of testimony being shared are relevant to us all.

It is fair to say that this place has taken its time to get where we are now. My overwhelming feeling is that as the 80th anniversary of the Holocaust is within sight, it is time to do this. It is time to get on with it. I appreciate that there are some differences on the location. I understand and sympathise with the various concerns and positions, but it seems to me that we can either keep going round in circles or agree that it is time to move forward. I favour the latter approach. We just need to do it.

I was fortunate recently to hear the Holocaust survivor Susan Pollack speak in this place at a Yom HaShoah event. She is a remarkable woman. I have also been fortunate to hear other survivors, including constituents, whose testimonies made such a marked difference to the lives of others. That privilege of hearing directly from Holocaust survivors is, of course, now becoming less and less possible, so we need to find ways to preserve their testimonies and to make sure that their stories are captured and told to those who come after us. We also know that genocides did not end with the Holocaust, which in itself should be a motivator to move forward with this Bill. That is why I believe the plan to make sure there is an education centre, as well as a memorial, is so vital.

I am in awe of the people, including survivors and their families, who work so hard to educate others. I want to mention my constituent Geraldine Shenkin, whose lovely mum, Marianne Grant, was held in no fewer than three concentration camps but none the less showed such courage. She made such striking and beautiful art, which will convey the horror of the Holocaust for generations to come. I am very fortunate to have been given a copy of the book of Marianne’s art, which is hugely evocative and an important part of the history of the Holocaust, the like of which we should see on display as widely as possible to ensure there is a clear understanding of the realities of what happened.

I am also in awe of my constituent Steven Anson, whose father Martin Anson’s story is told so powerfully through the Gathering the Voices initiative, and my late constituents Ingrid and Henry Wuga, both arrivals from the Kindertransport who made such an impact on my local community and across Scotland in their retirement as they dedicated themselves to speaking to our young people about their experiences. They changed countless lives. Their testimony, their telling the truth of the Holocaust, has impacted thousands of people. We lost Henry Wuga recently, shortly after his 100th birthday. It would be a great shame if the wisdom and dedication he demonstrated was not part of the new memorial and education centre, and I sincerely hope that his voice and the others I mentioned are among the many Scottish voices that this memorial would benefit from amplifying.

I know I am very lucky to have had these conversations, to have heard these stories and to have visited places including Yad Vashem, and I appreciate the impact it has had on me. But what about those who have not had that opportunity? What about those in future years who will need to know the reality of the Holocaust, but who will no longer have those brave survivors to hear from? Both the memorial and the education centre are vital in that regard.

We are also fortunate to have organisations and projects, including the Holocaust Memorial Day Trust led by the remarkable Olivia Marks-Woldman—my constituent Kirsty Robson does important work there, too—and the Holocaust Educational Trust, where Karen Pollock works tirelessly. There is also Gathering the Voices and Vision Schools Scotland. I could go on about the ethos that shines through all their work. The new memorial and education centre will be in a position to deliver and learn from that great work. They will be able to contribute to each other’s work, which is increasingly important in an increasingly polarised world—I spoke earlier about the shocking spike in antisemitic incidents—and the plans to move things forward are very welcome.

All of that is why this Holocaust memorial and education centre needs to be built, and it is why we need to give it the profile and broadest possible support that it merits. It is also why we just need to get on with it.