Energy Trilemma

Debate between Kieran Mullan and Alan Whitehead

Thursday 23rd March 2023 Commons Chamber

[Dr Kieran Mullan (Crewe and Nantwich) (Con)]

I shall be happy to accommodate your request, Mr Deputy Speaker.

I thank my right hon. Friend the Member for South Northamptonshire (Dame Andrea Leadsom) for securing the debate. Her framing of this issue—her description of it as an energy trilemma—is typical of her shrewd and clear thinking: it does an excellent job of setting out the nature of the challenge. I was delighted to be able to feed into the report that she produced, along with my hon. Friend the Member for Stoke-on-Trent Central (Jo Gideon), on deep geothermal and mine water technology.

This issue is more important than ever. The western world has come to learn, in an abrupt and challenging way, the cost of relying on states such as Russia for energy supplies. The record of Europe in this regard, and that of Germany in particular, will be viewed through the long lens of history as naive, and I am glad to see Europe now united in understanding the importance of prioritising our security—energy or otherwise.

I know that these Backbench Business debates are held in a less party political spirit than others, but I must say that I have been surprised by what the Opposition have had to say about this issue in recent months. Let me remind them, and the House as a whole, that it was Tony Blair who said, during an EU-Russia investment conference that he chaired in 2005, that increasing reliance on Russian oil and gas was not something to be concerned about. Both Mr Putin and Mr Blair insisted that the EU’s growing reliance on Russia for energy would not compromise the ability of EU leaders to express concerns, and that our economic futures were “bound together”. Opposition Members should remember that.

I have also noted with interest that it seems that the original Captain Hindsight, the Leader of the Opposition, has now been joined by a lieutenant in the form of the shadow Energy Secretary, whom I notified that I would mention him. When I looked through Hansard to find his contributions over the last few years, I was shocked to discover that he had not spoken about energy security in 2021, or in 2020, or in 2019; in fact, he had not spoken about it for 10 years when he finally did so in March 2022. Maybe he has spoken about it elsewhere and I have missed it. I can, however, confirm that the shadow Minister has been much more successful in that regard, raising the matter repeatedly. Perhaps he should put in for a job from the Leader of the Opposition.

[Dr Alan Whitehead (Southampton, Test) (Lab)]

Would the hon. Member like an edited copy of the speeches that I have made about energy security over the years? I think he might find something useful there.

[Dr Mullan]

As I explained, the hon. Member has a good track record. I was talking about the shadow Energy Secretary—as he was called until recently. I apologise if I did not make myself clear; I thought that I had. As I said, I think the Opposition should be cautious in their criticism of us. I make that point not to suggest that they have been unacceptably slow in this regard, but to show how, across the western world, we politicians have been too slow to recognise the danger and too quick to work with Russia.

As my right hon. Friend the Member for South Northamptonshire clearly laid out, we must find a path forward. Many of us in the House have advocated a variety of approaches, and I encourage the Government to be ambitious and innovative. I want to use the rest of my speech to talk about one technology that I think can help us meet the demand of the energy trilemma: deep geothermal heat and energy.

Deep geothermal heat and energy is an environmentally friendly, dependable and cost-effective source of heat and energy that can be found right under our feet. The technology is based on relatively simple concepts: first, that heat radiates from the earth’s interior; secondly, that while it dissipates once it reaches the surface, the heat remains significant at depths accessible with current drilling technology; and thirdly, that water can be used to absorb and transmit that heat to the surface.

Those mechanisms are what heat hot springs, most famously demonstrated in the UK by the Roman baths. Iceland has uniquely conducive geology and enjoys vast utilisation of geothermal energy. While natural occurrences of any significance are relatively rare, boreholes can be drilled to access this natural resource.

Deep geothermal energy heats 250,000 homes in Paris, and across France more than 600 MWh of heat is produced annually as the Government aim to increase the number of schemes by 40% by 2030. Munich is pouring in €1 billion through to 2035 to develop geothermal energy and make the city’s heating carbon neutral. Germany already produces more than 350 MWh of heat annually, and its Government are targeting at least 100 new geothermal projects.

The primary method by which we assess the scale of the opportunity for geothermal heat in Great Britain is geological temperature data collected from petroleum borehole data, mining records and a number of boreholes drilled as part of geothermal studies. I have been introduced to deep geothermal technology since my election as Member of Parliament for Crewe and Nantwich in December 2019, and my research has encouraged me to see its potential. Theoretically, it is able to provide enough heat energy to meet all our heating needs for at least 100 years, and even a conservative estimate of what we could utilise suggests that it could provide 15,000 GWh of heat for the UK by 2050.

In the UK, perhaps because of our past success in drilling for oil and gas and our status as a world leader for cheap wind and solar, we have fallen further behind on geothermal. But getting to net zero by 2050 in such a way that we share the proceeds of investment and utilise as much of our existing skills and workforce as possible will require us to pull every lever, and deep geothermal is an important one that will help us in the transition from oil and gas with our existing industries.

Like wind and solar were at the outset, schemes in Europe have been supported by things such as insurance and incentive schemes from Governments. I think it is the lack of such schemes in the UK that has led us to fall behind. I do not think the industry is asking for the open-ended subsidies that were originally in place for wind and solar, but a time-limited, targeted scheme of support would make a difference. I was pleased to see the set-aside in contracts for difference for tidal power and the green gas support scheme, which mirror the sort of thing that the industry is asking for.

I was delighted to be asked by the Prime Minister to conduct a review of geothermal technology and its potential in the UK. I am pleased to say that the first draft has been completed, and the report should be published shortly. It contains interesting figures on the potential overlap with levelling up, and I look forward to sharing the findings with the Secretary of State and the rest of the ministerial team.

Whether the technology is deep geothermal or nuclear, tidal or hydrogen, there are opportunities to create jobs, grow our economy and make us more secure. I look forward to seeing us drive this agenda forward, for the benefit of my constituency and the whole country.

--- Later in debate ---

[Dr Whitehead]

The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right: we should not be dependent on foreign imports. However, we need to be thinking about a long-term overall reduction in what we are doing. I do not think that simply saying, “We’re going to increase oil and gas production over the next period” is an answer to our present problems, because in the end, that is incompatible with the commitments we have made on net zero. We cannot go down that path in the long-term future.

[Dr Mullan]

I was pleased to hear the hon. Gentleman say that he agrees that we should do as much of our own energy production as possible in the meantime, during the transition. Is that the official Labour party position—that we should be doing more oil and gas in this country while we’ve got to still be using it?

[Dr Whitehead]

No, what I said was that we should be trying to make sure that the reduced amounts of oil and gas that, in the end, we use in our system are as indigenous as they can be. That does not mean that we increase oil and gas production overall. We have to make sure that what we are doing in terms of our route to net zero and our energy provision for the future is secure and affordable.

For example, we are, I hope, on track to make our energy economy—for power—based pretty wholly on renewables. Certainly, that is a Labour target for 2030; I think the official Government target is 2035. Of course, as hon. Members have mentioned, that means that we have to take account of what the issue is for variables in that energy economy. But, we should not back those up with a whole lot more oil and gas; we should back them up with things such as storage, which the hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent Central (Jo Gideon) mentioned, and methods of making sure that we can use our energy as flexibly as possible. Also, our variability must be accommodated by what we do alongside it to make the overall system work. That is actually working quite well so far, inasmuch as renewable energy is the cheapest form of energy there is at the moment. On the affordability criterion, we really are making progress on that front.

The hon. Member for North Devon (Selaine Saxby) mentioned the Celtic sea. If we expand our offshore renewables into the Celtic sea, we will have a further security addition to what our energy supplies are going to look like, which will make that second leg work very well as well. Those are the sorts of things we need to consider for the future in terms of how we solve the energy trilemma: not going backwards with higher hydrocarbons, but making the lower hydrocarbons that we have work as well as possible.

I was about to denounce the hon. Member for Crewe and Nantwich (Dr Mullan) for being nasty to me, but I gather he was not being nasty to me, but to someone else entirely. I thought he greatly redeemed himself with his passionate espousal of deep geothermal energy, which is bang on. We need to do a lot more work on geothermal energy for precisely the reasons I have mentioned in terms of the energy trilemma in this country, as it is affordable and low carbon at the same time.

I thank hon. Members for this excellent debate this afternoon. By the way, in how we balance out the three legs of the World Energy Council trilemma tool, we are fourth in the world. That may be a free gift to the Minister, but it is something we are not doing badly on in this country as a whole.

Geothermal Energy

Debate between Kieran Mullan and Alan Whitehead

Wednesday 15th September 2021 Westminster Hall

[Dr Alan Whitehead (Southampton, Test) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Robertson, and to reply to this afternoon’s debate on behalf of the Opposition.

I am in a particular position as far as geothermal energy is concerned. I am not standing up to say what a good idea geothermal energy would be for the future, if it were to be introduced, but to say what a good idea geothermal energy has been already. It has been introduced, and it has been running in my constituency since 1986. Indeed, in a former life, I was substantially responsible for getting the scheme into place in Southampton, with a little help from the then Department of Energy, which had drilled a test hole in Southampton to see how the water came up. The responsibility for capturing the water coming up, converting it to steam and putting it into a district heating scheme lay entirely with Southampton City Council, of which I was leader at the time. The results of that can be plainly seen by all. The water comes up at 74° Celsius and is therefore easily convertible into very high-grade heat and a substantial electricity production facility. Indeed, it produces something like 40 GWh of heat, and about 12 GWh of electricity, per year in and around Southampton—a heat network of about 18 km.

I am hardly likely to stand here this afternoon and say anything negative about geothermal energy. I congratulate every hon. Member who has spoken in the debate on their focused commitment to that form of energy and on their understanding of the processes, which leads them to bring that focused commitment. That is a testament to the support that there is across the House for getting that form of energy seriously on the map. Having mentioned my background in Southampton, I regret to say that the one in Southampton remains the only geothermal energy plant operating in the UK, from 1986 to this day.

I am very encouraged by the United Downs development, which is drilling at the moment, and the activity that is starting in Stoke-on-Trent, which is really encouraging for geothermal for the future. I am also encouraged by the developments mentioned by my hon. Friend the Member for Birkenhead (Mick Whitley)—the use of deep mine water and repurposed existing boreholes for geothermal purposes. All of those are encouraging developments.

The deep mine hot water that is available is essentially geothermal water that occurs in parts of the country where the heat of water is considerable, as it is in Southampton. That is what is coming into the bottom of those mines. It is a lucky accident of history that the mines were dug where that water is hottest. That is a tremendous resource that is beginning to be harnessed as water for steam and electricity production.

Geothermal is not a resource available uniformly across the country. We need to be clear about that, so that we do not get any Members from East Anglia advocating deep geothermal, because that would be a quixotic pursuit.

[Dr Mullan]

I appreciate that there are the obvious sites that we know about; but I know from my discussions with people in the industry that they feel that the areas mapped and identified so far are an underestimate. There may be places where we think we cannot reach but where, as the technology develops, it will be possible to unlock sources.

[Dr Whitehead]

The hon. Gentleman is right. According to what has already been mapped and known about via the British Geological Survey and other agencies, it so happens that every Member present this afternoon has a constituency right on top of an area of sedimentary laid-down rock associated with aquifers, all of which are ideal for deep geothermal exploitation. The hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) is not actually on a sedimentary rock formation but is next door to one. His efforts could be directed at persuading his neighbouring Members of Parliament to get going on geothermal projects just down the road from his constituency.