Khalid Mahmood
Main Page: Khalid Mahmood (Labour - Birmingham, Perry Barr)Enterprise and Regulatory Reform Bill
Khalid Mahmood Excerpts
Alok Sharma
Of course it is unacceptable. As I said earlier, any form of discrimination is unacceptable, but we need to ensure that the remedies we have available are used, and ultimately there has to be an evidence base for legislation.
Mr Khalid Mahmood (Birmingham, Perry Barr) (Lab)
If a carer was to refuse to care for an individual because they were of a lower caste, how does the hon. Gentleman think that would be remedied?
Alok Sharma
I took part in a debate on Radio 5 live this morning, and that was one of the examples that came up. Clearly it is unacceptable. I do not know the details of the case, and I do not know whether there is a remedy under workplace legislation, but, to continue with the theme, I think that we need to ensure that there is an evidence base. I welcome the work that the Government are proposing on education. One of the points made by a caller to the Radio 5 live debate this morning was that much of the time employers do not understand caste discrimination. That could form part of the education process. As I understand it, certainly based on my reading of the debate in the other place, the Government have not closed their mind to legislation. They said that an evidence base is needed and that additional work is being undertaken.
Sandra Osborne
I am in favour of the Lords amendments on the general duty in the Equality Act 2006. I am extremely disappointed with the view the Government have taken. They are seeking to repeal the general duty because they believe it serves no useful purpose and is superfluous to requirements, but that flies in the face of the views of equality and human rights experts; the EHRC, albeit latterly; service users and other stakeholders; and the Government’s analysis of the public consultation, which shows that the majority of respondents were opposed to repeal by a ratio of 6:1, and that they were concerned about losing the guiding principles and values set out in the general duty. If the Government believe that section 3 is so insignificant, why are they using valuable parliamentary time on it? That is particularly puzzling because the measure had all-party support during the passage of the Act.
Section 3 mandates the EHRC to act with a view to encouraging and supporting the development of the various aspects of equality and human rights. The Government believe that it raises unrealistic expectations of what the EHRC can do. That view lacks not only ambition but principles. The values we enshrine in legislation send a message about the society to which we aspire. That requires not just a regulator but an organisational framework that can promote social change. As Age UK has said, the measure is about changing the culture, not just enforcing the rules.
Society values an outward-looking EHRC monitoring what is happening in the UK rather than just reporting on itself. One example is the EHRC report on the shortcomings of care provided to elderly people. That not only brought about change in practice, but highlighted the rights of elderly people to protection and to respect of their human rights.
Sir Bob Hepple has said that the Government are wrong to say that section 3 has no specific legal function. He states that the courts can use it as a helpful guide to the Act in the absence of a purpose clause, which the previous Government declined to insert in the Equality Act 2010. I sat on that Bill Committee, and remember the Lib Dems arguing for a purpose clause. However, the purpose clause was less important than it might have been because of the general duty set out in the 2006 Act. Sir Bob believes that the repeal of section 3 will leave equality law rudderless. I look forward to the Minister informing the House of the Government’s response to that view.
Equality and human rights are inextricably linked. The point of the Equality Acts was to overcome the fragmentation of the different forms of discrimination. The EHRC needs the clear purpose provided in section 3 to guide it when deciding priorities, and to ensure that it approaches its different equality and human duties in an integrated and effective manner.
The Joint Committee on Human Rights, in its sixteenth report, unanimously welcomed section 3, saying that it would serve in practice as a unifying factor in performance of the commission’s duties under sections 8 to 11, which the Minister outlined. I have already raised in previous debates the danger of jeopardising the EHCR’s UN A status accreditation, following the cuts of 76% of its budget and 62% of its staff since its inception. This repeal would be another nail in the coffin, and we know that the public sector equality duty is also under review. What does that say about the coalition’s commitment to equality? It is constantly chipping away at the most progressive and advanced legislation and policy, while undermining the ECHR in its infancy, when it was far too early to judge its effectiveness.
In 2011, the Deputy Prime Minister told the hon. Member for East Dunbartonshire (Jo Swinson), who is now the Minister responsible, that he would resist the siren calls to water down the Equality Act by confirming that there would be no move to dilute its incredibly important protections or to enshrine and boost inequality in this country under the guise of dealing with unnecessary or intrusive regulation. That is exactly what is happening here today, so I do not expect to see any Liberal Democrats in the Aye Lobby on this issue today.
Mr Khalid Mahmood
I rise to speak in favour of the Lords amendment on caste discrimination. The Minister said that we need more education and consultation. She said that she wants more evidence. We can educate and consult as much as we want, and if she wants evidence, she can come to my office or I can send her almost 1,000 letters that I have received from my constituents on this issue. This issue is close to the heart of most of the people in the United Kingdom who have been excluded from equality legislation. They ask why, when everybody else is entitled to the protection of that legislation, they are not. We want that issue to be addressed today.
We have discussed the number of people who have come forward. Most of those affected cannot come forward—as the hon. Member for Bedford (Richard Fuller) pointed out—or be taken seriously unless they are prepared to spend huge amounts of their personal money to get their cases heard.
Alok Sharma
On a point of clarification, the hon. Gentleman says that he has had 1,000 letters from his constituents. Have all those people specifically faced caste discrimination in this country?
Mr Mahmood
Those people have asked me to take up this issue on their behalf, as their Member of Parliament, and that is what I am doing. It is not a matter of individual cases because—as I have said and as the hon. Gentleman needs to understand—one case is too many. In this day and age, and in this country, discrimination against anybody based on who their parents or grandparents were, where they came from or the family into which they were born is wrong, and we should not go down that route. We are here to protect those people who, through no fault of their own, were born of a particular lineage.
There are cases of prejudice in my constituency and in Birmingham, but they cannot be dealt with because the law does not allow it. We want the Government to look at that issue and deal with it. The point is equality for all. This is not about discrimination against one group of people or one caste of people: it is about providing equality for all of us. If this argument had been accepted on the race relations legislation we introduced, my hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham, Erdington (Jack Dromey) would still be fighting his corner and trying to provide evidence of the number of people affected by that discrimination. We are going down a route that we have trodden long enough to understand that where there are issues of inequality and injustice we need to address them. There have been cases of people working below someone of a different caste, and believing that that they should not take them seriously. In the health service, there have been care providers who were looking after people of a lower caste but felt that they should not be doing that. We need to provide protection for those who are most vulnerable. They have suffered huge discrimination in their country of origin, and we should not perpetuate it.
Jeremy Corbyn
I will be very brief, because other colleagues want to speak. I want to address the issue of caste, and to compliment the hon. Member for Bedford (Richard Fuller) on the way he spoke and for the logic he brought to his argument.
Outside the House at lunchtime today, there was a considerable demonstration in support of the Lords amendment on caste discrimination. The people on the demonstration came from different backgrounds and communities: Hindu communities, Sikh communities, Muslim communities, Christian communities and people who hold no particular faith. All were united in the view that if there is discrimination on any basis, it is wrong. While education may help people to get away from their discriminatory practices, it does not offer protection for the victims of that prejudice. It is therefore incumbent on this House to do something.
Caste discrimination is not new. In south Asia, it is a massive issue, despite being illegal within the terms of the Indian constitution written by Dr Ambedkar, and despite the many statements on the issue by Mahatma Gandhi. In this country, we have passed race relations legislation over many years. The arguments being used today—that there is not enough evidence, more needs to be gathered and there has to be consultation—are exactly the same arguments used against the first race relations law in this country: that we cannot legislate away prejudice and discrimination. No, we cannot. However, we can offer protection for the victims, we can offer legal redress, we can stop discrimination in the workplace. That is what the Lords amendment is designed to do.
The history of the immediate issue is that an amendment to the Equality Bill, which came before the House in 2010, was agreed. Two amendments were tabled. One amendment, tabled by Rob Marris, the former MP for Wolverhampton South West, was in the form of the Lords amendment, but, unfortunately, was not accepted. Instead, the Government accepted an amendment tabled by my hon. Friend the Member for Hayes and Harlington (John McDonnell), which stated that research should be undertaken. That research has been done. The requirement—it was not an option, but a requirement—placed on the Secretary of State was to introduce legislation if the research report showed that there was discrimination. The research shows clearly that there is discrimination on the basis of caste. I am therefore very disappointed with the Minister’s response and hope that she will think again. We can vote in favour of the Lords amendment today. That would change the law and be the end of the immediate debate. Caste discrimination would be illegal in the UK if we were to do that today. I very much hope we do.
There are many organisations and people who say that we want more discussion and debate. We should, however, simply say that we think discrimination on any basis in our society is wrong. I am the chair of the trustees of the Dalit Solidarity Network and I have met many people who are victims of caste discrimination. On the square today were many people who had been through the most appalling situations—because they married into the upper-lower caste, got a job where their manager was a different caste or went for a promotion and did not get it. All kinds of things come out when these debates take place. I urge the House, if we think that discrimination is wrong, to legislate to say that it is wrong, and, if we want to outlaw it, to do it today.