Enterprise and Regulatory Reform Bill

Jeremy Corbyn Excerpts

Tuesday 16th April 2013 Commons Chamber

[Jo Swinson]

I am sorry, but I did say that I wanted to move on after taking that last intervention.

We recognise the strength of feeling and the views expressed on caste in another place, and the importance of the issue. It is important to put it on the record that the Government recognise that caste prejudice remains in the UK, not least as outlined in the 2010 National Institute of Economic and Social Research report. It is important to recognise that the problem is entirely contained within Hindu and Sikh communities, which is different from other forms of prejudice and discrimination, which can be much more widespread in society. That is why we are working with those communities to address the problem through an education programme supported by leading community organisations. That will be backed up by further examination by the EHRC, which reports later this year. Last month, the Under-Secretary of State for Women and Equalities, my hon. Friend the Member for Maidstone and The Weald (Mrs Grant), outlined the extra funding that had been made available for the “Talk for a Change” pilot project, so we can see how attitudes could be changed within those key communities.

[Jeremy Corbyn (Islington North) (Lab)]

Money for education and understanding is welcome and important. I am glad that the Government recognise that caste discrimination is a problem, but in doing so, why does the Minister not take this opportunity to mention it in law? Some who have tried to drag cases through employment tribunals and others have had great difficulty because caste prejudice is not mentioned specifically in law. If we understand that there is a problem with a form of prejudice, we should try to legislate as well as educate to eliminate it.

[Jo Swinson]

I appreciate the point that the hon. Gentleman makes. It is a complex issue, as the previous Government also recognised. There is not one voice from the communities about the right way to tackle this issue, or whether legislation is the best solution to the problems that have been identified. That is why, when the Equality Act 2010 was passed, the previous Government took a power to enable them to introduce caste as a characteristic protected against discrimination through secondary legislation. But the communities are very concerned about the possibility of increasing stigma by using legislation to try to deal with this issue—

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Mahmood]

Those people have asked me to take up this issue on their behalf, as their Member of Parliament, and that is what I am doing. It is not a matter of individual cases because—as I have said and as the hon. Gentleman needs to understand—one case is too many. In this day and age, and in this country, discrimination against anybody based on who their parents or grandparents were, where they came from or the family into which they were born is wrong, and we should not go down that route. We are here to protect those people who, through no fault of their own, were born of a particular lineage.

There are cases of prejudice in my constituency and in Birmingham, but they cannot be dealt with because the law does not allow it. We want the Government to look at that issue and deal with it. The point is equality for all. This is not about discrimination against one group of people or one caste of people: it is about providing equality for all of us. If this argument had been accepted on the race relations legislation we introduced, my hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham, Erdington (Jack Dromey) would still be fighting his corner and trying to provide evidence of the number of people affected by that discrimination. We are going down a route that we have trodden long enough to understand that where there are issues of inequality and injustice we need to address them. There have been cases of people working below someone of a different caste, and believing that that they should not take them seriously. In the health service, there have been care providers who were looking after people of a lower caste but felt that they should not be doing that. We need to provide protection for those who are most vulnerable. They have suffered huge discrimination in their country of origin, and we should not perpetuate it.

[Jeremy Corbyn]

I will be very brief, because other colleagues want to speak. I want to address the issue of caste, and to compliment the hon. Member for Bedford (Richard Fuller) on the way he spoke and for the logic he brought to his argument.

Outside the House at lunchtime today, there was a considerable demonstration in support of the Lords amendment on caste discrimination. The people on the demonstration came from different backgrounds and communities: Hindu communities, Sikh communities, Muslim communities, Christian communities and people who hold no particular faith. All were united in the view that if there is discrimination on any basis, it is wrong. While education may help people to get away from their discriminatory practices, it does not offer protection for the victims of that prejudice. It is therefore incumbent on this House to do something.

Caste discrimination is not new. In south Asia, it is a massive issue, despite being illegal within the terms of the Indian constitution written by Dr Ambedkar, and despite the many statements on the issue by Mahatma Gandhi. In this country, we have passed race relations legislation over many years. The arguments being used today—that there is not enough evidence, more needs to be gathered and there has to be consultation—are exactly the same arguments used against the first race relations law in this country: that we cannot legislate away prejudice and discrimination. No, we cannot. However, we can offer protection for the victims, we can offer legal redress, we can stop discrimination in the workplace. That is what the Lords amendment is designed to do.

The history of the immediate issue is that an amendment to the Equality Bill, which came before the House in 2010, was agreed. Two amendments were tabled. One amendment, tabled by Rob Marris, the former MP for Wolverhampton South West, was in the form of the Lords amendment, but, unfortunately, was not accepted. Instead, the Government accepted an amendment tabled by my hon. Friend the Member for Hayes and Harlington (John McDonnell), which stated that research should be undertaken. That research has been done. The requirement—it was not an option, but a requirement—placed on the Secretary of State was to introduce legislation if the research report showed that there was discrimination. The research shows clearly that there is discrimination on the basis of caste. I am therefore very disappointed with the Minister’s response and hope that she will think again. We can vote in favour of the Lords amendment today. That would change the law and be the end of the immediate debate. Caste discrimination would be illegal in the UK if we were to do that today. I very much hope we do.

There are many organisations and people who say that we want more discussion and debate. We should, however, simply say that we think discrimination on any basis in our society is wrong. I am the chair of the trustees of the Dalit Solidarity Network and I have met many people who are victims of caste discrimination. On the square today were many people who had been through the most appalling situations—because they married into the upper-lower caste, got a job where their manager was a different caste or went for a promotion and did not get it. All kinds of things come out when these debates take place. I urge the House, if we think that discrimination is wrong, to legislate to say that it is wrong, and, if we want to outlaw it, to do it today.