Protection from Redundancy (Pregnancy and Family Leave) Bill

Kevin Hollinrake Excerpts

Wednesday 2nd November 2022 Public Bill Committees

[Imran Hussain (Bradford East) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Hollobone. I welcome the Minister to his place. He was not present on Second Reading, but I think we all pay tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for Barnsley Central, who introduced the Bill. We all know how difficult it is to get a private Member’s Bill to this stage. A number of seasoned veterans are present who probably know that, having failed on many occasions. It is a tribute to my hon. Friend. I also pay tribute to former Ministers and all those who have got us to this stage, including the hon. Member for Loughborough and others present in Committee.

A lot has been said by my hon. Friend the Member for Barnsley Central, and I will not simply repeat what he said. Those of us who were present for Second Reading know that we had a strong debate in which the House was at its best. We showed cross-party support for this extremely important Bill.

Pregnant women and new parents face some appalling discrimination in the workplace, and it is right that my hon. Friend’s Bill addresses some of that. The fact is, however, the Government said six years ago that the discrimination and poor treatment faced by pregnant women and mothers at work was “clearly unacceptable”. My hon. Friend is right to point to the report that sets out the fact that, shockingly, even today up to 4,000 women risk losing their employment. That should concern not just those in this House but everyone. Frankly, more should have been done sooner.

As we go through the clauses of the Bill, we must remember that it extends no additional protections to working parents; the real work is to be done in the regulations mandated by the Bill. To that end, as I pressed the Government on Second Reading, I urge the Minister to commit to those regulations being introduced as soon as possible. The urgent necessity of that is not lost on anyone here today, and I refer to the comments made by my hon. Friend the Member for Barnsley Central. I urge the Minister to guarantee that we see something by the end of the financial year at the latest.

As the Minister knows, the same protections that the Bill and its regulations will afford to working people were promised in Labour’s new deal for working people. In the spirit of the cross-party support for the Bill, we are therefore happy to work with the Minister in developing the regulations to ensure that the protections of the Bill are as strong as possible.

I also want to make it clear, however, that we will not tolerate a watering down of existing protections through those regulations. Earlier this week, we heard that the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions had previously stated that the Government should “seriously consider” how the rights of parents to take time off after having a baby could be reversed. He also claimed that the rules on leave for new mothers and fathers were too “onerous”. I therefore ask the Minister to commit to not making any amendments to the Bill before Report that would water down those protections.

As I told the Minister on Second Reading, and as was pointed out by my hon. Friend the Member for Barnsley Central, there are rightly concerns about the qualifying period, which potentially discriminates against those who have to cut their parental leave short for a number of reasons. We know that as soon as someone takes even the first six weeks, 10% of their original pay is cut. In the current climate, tragically, people will be forced through no choice of their own to return to work. Therefore, someone not taking that full six weeks will automatically be barred from the protections afforded by the Bill. I urge the Minister to look at that important point when drawing up the regulations.

The Bill also makes no mention of employment tribunals, where responsibility for enforcing the rights in the Bill and the regulations will fall. As I set out on Second Reading, our employment tribunal system has been stretched to breaking point, with the case backlog reaching 0.5 million and working people forced to wait up to two years for justice. Before the Minister introduces the regulations as mandated by the Bill, will he commit to working with his colleagues at the Ministry of Justice to set out a plan for tackling that backlog, so that the protections in the Bill afforded to working parents will be enforceable and worth more than the paper that they are written on?

Ultimately, we will of course support the Bill. Once again, I pay tribute to the extraordinary work undertaken by my hon. Friend the Member for Barnsley Central, who has delivered a Bill that the whole House can get behind. Like many thousands of new parents, I look forward to seeing the Bill make its way to the statute book.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (Kevin Hollinrake)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Hollobone. I thank the hon. and gallant Member for Barnsley Central for all his work on this important piece of legislation. I also thank the officials who have worked hard on it, as well as my predecessors, including my hon. Friend the Member for Loughborough, who did a fine job in this role.

The Bill will bring important added redundancy protection for pregnant women and new parents on their return to work. The measures will provide important support for parents during an exciting but challenging time—pregnancy and the first period of their child’s life—as they juggle work and caring responsibilities. At that time, a little more security can be valuable. It is depressing to hear the statistics that the hon. Member for Member for Barnsley Central cited about people being discriminated against because of those circumstances, but it is important to recognise that the Bill will provide statutory best practice that most employers will follow. Only a minority of employers treat their employees in the way that the hon. Gentleman mentioned, but it is nevertheless important to tighten the rules to ensure that they do not.

On Second Reading, Members on both sides of the House spoke about the extent of pregnancy and maternity discrimination, and about their determination to address it. Indeed, Second Reading offered the hon. and gallant Member for Barnsley Central a fruitful recruiting ground for Committee members, and it is good to see a number of those who spoke supporting these important measures in Committee. I was greatly heartened by the extent of the consensus and common cause on Second Reading. I was unable to attend Second Reading, but the Radio 4 “Today” programme on Saturday morning described it as practically a five-hour group hug—in stark contrast with what was happening more widely in Parliament—so I really wish I had been there.

I have heard the calls to go further, but for now at least, the measures mark a sensible next step in our efforts to tackle this issue, and I am keen to press on with them as quickly as possible. I absolutely agree with the shadow Minister, the hon. Member for Bradford East, about implementing the measures as quickly as possible, but I want to make sure that we get them right, and we are working with the Pregnancy and Maternity Discrimination Advisory Board and consulting other stakeholders to ensure that we do.

[Nickie Aiken (Cities of London and Westminster) (Con)]

I congratulate the hon. Member for Barnsley Central on introducing the Bill. I was part of the group hug that the Minister mentioned. It is important to provide employment protections not just for pregnant women, but for people who are trying to get pregnant. Many people try fertility treatment to get pregnant, and they also need employment rights to protect them from abuse by their employers. Does the Minister agree?

[Kevin Hollinrake]

My hon. Friend is a doughty and persistent campaigner, which Members have to be to get across what they want—my seven years as a Back Bencher taught me that. I responded to a letter of hers on this matter very recently. Her campaign is holding a drop-in session from 11 am to 1 pm today, and I am sure that anybody who wants to take part is welcome.

As the hon. and gallant Member for Barnsley Central set out, these simple clauses give the Secretary of State a new power to make regulations on redundancy during pregnancy, and extend existing powers to make regulations during or after a relevant period of leave. The Maternity and Parental Leave etc. Regulations mean that before making an employee who is on maternity leave redundant, employers have an obligation to offer them—not just invite them to apply for—a suitable alternative vacancy when one is available. Our response to the 2019 consultation on pregnancy and maternity discrimination made it clear that we will use the new powers in the Bill to extend MAPLE protection into pregnancy and for a period after return to work.

[Bob Stewart (Beckenham) (Con)]

I intervene only to make a point I made on Second Reading, which was that perhaps we could insist in the Bill that employers outline to employees who have become pregnant their rights. They could give them a piece of paper that tells them what they should do. That would make it absolutely plain.

[Kevin Hollinrake]

That is a very interesting point. What my right hon. Friend is seeking to do is formalise good practice. I am sure my officials have heard what he has said and will think about it when it comes to forming these specific regulations.

Alongside maternity leave, those who receive adoption leave and shared parental leave will benefit from the same additional protections where appropriate. As I have said, we are working with the Pregnancy and Maternity Discrimination Advisory Board in advance of settling on the precise details of the regulations. There are some important questions to consider. We want to make absolutely sure we get the legislation right.

The hon. Member for Barnsley Central referred to the issue of the six-week qualification period. We want to avoid a situation where after 12 months someone who has taken a few weeks of shared parental leave receives the same redundancy protection as a mother who has just returned from 12 months of maternity leave. That is what we are trying to get right.

[Imran Hussain]

I accept to a degree the point that we have to have safeguards in place, but does the Minister agree that those matters can be dealt with through the advisory board?

[Kevin Hollinrake]

It is incredibly important to get this right, as we said. The key thing is to consult widely with stakeholders. That is what we are doing, and we have done so with the hon. Member for Barnsley Central, who is promoting the Bill. A final decision will be made as quickly as possible.

On employment tribunals, there are clearly problems across the system, primarily due to the pandemic. All these cases need to be accelerated. It is not acceptable that people are having to wait for justice. I absolutely understand the calls to improve the system. We are working hard to do that. The hon. Member for Bradford East made a point about a potential weakening or watering down of employment regulations. I do not see any appetite on this side of the political fence, or indeed his side, to do that. I think it is highly unlikely that that would be something that Government Members would support.

The Government continue to support the measures in the Bill, which would provide valuable support and protection for parents during some of the most challenging and exciting days of their lives. Supporting this Bill is in line with our ongoing commitment to support workers and build a high-skilled, high-productivity and high-wage economy. I was greatly heartened to hear many contributors on Second Reading making the economic case to keep new parents in the workplace. I look forward to continuing to work with the hon. and gallant Member for Barnsley Central to support the Bill during its passage through the House.

[Dan Jarvis]

Members of the Committee will be relieved to hear that I am going to be very brief. I am under strict orders from the right hon. and gallant Member for Beckenham not to stand between him and a bacon sandwich, so I will be very brief. I particularly enjoyed the Minister’s description of the Second Reading debate as a five-hour group hug. It feels as if we have had another group hug this morning, though fortunately not one that has gone on for five hours.

I would like to make one parochial point. From my personal point of view, it is great to see some co-operation between south-west and north Yorkshire. I will not test the Minister’s patience by seeking to expand the point about what we might be able to achieve if we worked closely together in Yorkshire, but I hope that The Yorkshire Post is listening. I will say no more than that.

I am incredibly grateful for the excellent contributions this morning and for all the support from hon. and right hon. Members throughout proceedings on the Bill. I also want to thank the various stakeholders, including the EHRC, the Trades Union Congress, the Royal College of Midwives, Unison, the Fawcett Society, the Chartered Institute of Personnel and Development, the CBI and Working Families. They have all been incredibly helpful and helped get us to this point, as have the officials in the Department and the Clerks of the House. Finally, I want to thank everybody for their attendance and support today. I hope we can continue to work together in the constructive spirit that has brought us to this point.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause 1 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 2 and 3 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Bill to be reported, without amendment.