Intelligence and Security Committee

Karl Turner Excerpts

Monday 16th March 2015 Commons Chamber

[Karl Turner (Kingston upon Hull East) (Lab)]

I do not intend to detain the House for long. The Opposition support the motion on adding the right hon. Member for Broadland (Mr Simpson) to the Committee. We pay tribute to the right hon. Member for New Forest East (Dr Lewis), who has been a hard-working member of the Committee and has worked constructively with colleagues across the House on intelligence and security matters.

Deregulation Bill

Karl Turner Excerpts

Tuesday 10th March 2015 Commons Chamber

[Andrew Bridgen]

Not only do the majority of Members of this House think that the measure is disproportionate; I honestly believe that the majority of people in the country think that it is disproportionate. When I first proposed my amendment and canvassed support for it across the House, it was clear that a large number of Members did not initially think that it was a criminal offence not to pay the TV licence fee. It is within our power to correct this. In England and Wales, more people are imprisoned each year for the non-payment of fines associated with TV licensing than are prosecuted for evasion in Scotland, with little, if any, difference in the evasion rate.

[Karl Turner (Kingston upon Hull East) (Lab)]

To be absolutely clear, people are not going to prison for refusing to pay the TV licence fee. The reality is that people are sent to prison for refusing to pay the penalty for not paying the fee in the first place. The former Solicitor-General has intervened a couple of times to suggest the opposite to that.

[Andrew Bridgen]

The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right. People go to prison not for not paying the licence fee, but for not paying the fines. However, if someone has hit hard times and has no money and cannot afford a £145.50 licence fee, they are unlikely, as in the example cited by Baroness Corston, to be able to pay a £200 fine, which could result in a mother going to prison and her children being taken into care, with the consequent results for her family on release.

The avoidance rate for payment of the TV licence fee in Scotland is hardly different from that in England, despite the fact that we criminalise 160,000 to 180,000 of our citizens a year and imprison between 30 and 50, whereas Scotland prosecutes only some 30 people a year. Given the sparsity of population in Scotland and human behaviour being what it is, one might consider that there would be a greater chance of evading prosecution in a remote part of Scotland than anywhere in England. I would suggest that there was possibly a higher evasion rate in Scotland prior to the decriminalisation anyway.

Unfortunately, the BBC public relations machine seems to have won the day in the upper House, so I now come to amendment (a) in lieu, tabled in the name of the Minister for Government Policy and Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster, my right hon. Friend the Member for West Dorset (Mr Letwin). As he says, there is no doubting the significant cross-party support for the clauses relating to TV licensing during the earlier stages of the Bill, and the firm commitments set out by the Government must be honoured. I therefore support the amendment to ensure that the review by David Perry QC, due in June 2015, to which I had the pleasure of giving evidence only last week, is promptly considered by the Government of the day, and that the changes that I very much hope come about are introduced with a clear timetable.

Whatever future funding mechanism for the BBC is decided at the next charter review, I hope that criminalising more than 160,000 of our fellow citizens each year, an estimated 75% of whom are women, will no longer be part of it. I therefore urge the House to join me in opposing the Lords amendment and supporting the Government’s amendments in lieu.

Members’ Paid Directorships and Consultancies

Karl Turner Excerpts

Wednesday 25th February 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hague]

That could be a valid point, and I want to address it in closing my speech.

[Karl Turner (Kingston upon Hull East) (Lab)]

rose—

[Mr Hague]

I will try to fit in the hon. Gentleman before I finish.

There are two other revealing aspects of this motion. First, the Opposition make the proposal now, when the issue is in the news, but have done nothing to enforce it in their own party in the meantime. Labour Members—I make no criticism of them for this—are directors of building supply companies and investment companies, and non-executive directors of mining companies and breweries. They are paid as everything from expert advisers to executive mentors, no less. It must be nice to be an executive mentor. Does an executive mentor fall within the definition of “director”?

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Hague]

I will give way two last times. I promised to give way to the hon. Gentleman, and I will then give way to one of my hon. Friends.

[Karl Turner]

The Leader of the House has been very generous in giving way. He made a point that he thought was funny—frankly, the electorate would not think it was funny—about the former Prime Minister Jim Callaghan. My hon. Friend the Member for Middlesbrough (Andy McDonald) made it clear that Ministers, which would of course include the former Prime Minister, have to put directorships into trust while serving as Ministers. The right hon. Gentleman’s point was not funny, and it was not correct, was it?

[Mr Hague]

Yes, it was correct. It is not for me to say whether it was funny; others will be the judge. I was making a point about the Opposition motion. If such a motion is so easy to make fun of, it may not have much chance of being a serious policy. The public would not find it funny if we adopted rules that could not be enforced, were confusing or damaged the future of Parliament, which is the central point.

Business of the House

Karl Turner Excerpts

Thursday 23rd October 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hague]

This is a very concerning case. I have in the past, as Foreign Secretary, discussed the application of blasphemy laws in Pakistan with senior members of the Government there. It is concerning that in the recent appeal hearing the court sadly upheld the death penalty. The UK opposes the death penalty in all circumstances as a matter of principle, including in this circumstance. The EU is raising the case with the Pakistani authorities, and will continue to do so at a senior level, and our high commission in Islamabad will be supporting the EU-led action. We will continue to pursue this case.

[Karl Turner (Kingston upon Hull East) (Lab)]

May we have a debate in Government time on the proliferation of police cautions? My local newspaper yesterday exposed this issue. More than 100 cautions have been issued in the past 12 months for very serious criminal offences, four them rape. The Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders Act 2012, which was supposed to help by allowing cautions for only minor offences, is clearly not working.

[Mr Hague]

The hon. Gentleman raises an important issue. As with so many requests, I cannot offer a debate in Government time, because so much of the House’s time is allocated to Backbench Business debates.

Oral Answers to Questions

Karl Turner Excerpts

Wednesday 10th September 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hague]

It has been the policy of the Government for some time to be open to further devolution—I gave examples of what we have done in Wales, for instance, during the lifetime of this Government. The statements by the party leaders made on this in the last few days are statements by party leaders in a campaign—not a statement of Government policy today, but a statement of commitment from the three main political parties, akin to statements by party leaders in a general election campaign of what they intend to do afterwards. It is on that basis that they have made those statements.

[Karl Turner (Kingston upon Hull East) (Lab)]

Q2. In 2012, the Chancellor set himself a target to double exports to £1 trillion by 2020. I wonder whether the Leader of the House would confirm that his Government are on course to miss that target by a massive £330 billion.

Business of the House (10 September)

Karl Turner Excerpts

Monday 8th September 2014 Commons Chamber

[Karl Turner (Kingston upon Hull East) (Lab)]

We support the motion to timetable a Back-Bench debate on Wednesday evening on the creation of a Select Committee on governance of the House. The time proposed by the Government will give Members throughout the House a sufficient chance to have their say, and the motion also recognises that we will have spent a significant amount of time on Wednesday debating international matters of crucial importance.

Mr Speaker was right last week to say that it is important that the House move as one on the issue of its governance. That is why we welcome both the chance to have the debate and the motion proposed to the Backbench Business Committee. I do not want to address the content of Wednesday’s debate now, but it is clear that the moment is right to consider splitting the roles of the Clerk and the chief executive, and that the House should have a process for considering that properly and in a timely fashion, so I hope that Members will support today’s motion.

Question put and agreed to.

Business of the House

Karl Turner Excerpts

Thursday 17th July 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hague]

My hon. Friend makes a point that is very important for his constituents. Eighteen days does seem unusually long and an unacceptable time for such repairs. I will ask the Department for Culture, Media and Sport to respond to him directly, and depending on how satisfied he is by that answer, he may want to press the case for further and wider action.

[Karl Turner (Kingston upon Hull East) (Lab)]

Given the road to Damascus conversion by Lib Dems on the viciously unfair and punitive bedroom tax, please may we have an urgent debate on that policy, or at least a debate on the apparent hypocrisy of Lib Dems?

[Mr Hague]

I think it would strain the coalition a little too much if I launched a debate with that particular title, but it is open to the Opposition, who have an Opposition day on the Wednesday in the first week back, to have a debate on that topic if they so wish.

Business of the House

Karl Turner Excerpts

Thursday 5th June 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lansley]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for raising that issue. Volunteers week, in the first week of June, provides an important opportunity every year to say a big thank you to the millions of volunteers across the UK for their fantastic contribution. We are putting in place measures and funds to grow volunteering opportunities. We have invested £20 million in 40 organisations through the social action fund. That in itself has created opportunities for more than half a million new volunteers. I hope that we will all, as he rightly says, take the opportunity this week to celebrate volunteers in our constituencies.

[Karl Turner (Kingston upon Hull East) (Lab)]

The Crown court in Hull has come to a near standstill owing to the fact that criminal solicitors are refusing to apply for legal aid representation orders in Crown court proceedings. So bad is the situation that the recorder of Hull Crown court has issued a practice direction advising defendants who are unrepresented how to conduct the proceedings. May we please have an urgent debate on this issue and the fact that the criminal justice system is in complete chaos due to the Lord Chancellor simply not understanding the issues?

[Mr Lansley]

On the contrary. There is a central issue here: across Government, we must cut our coat according to our cloth. We must make savings, and that includes savings in a legal aid budget which, as the hon. Gentleman knows perfectly well, was by far and away the most generous in the developed world. Making those savings has entailed difficult decisions. However, the hon. Gentleman raised important points in relation to Hull. I entirely understand why he did so, and I will ask my colleagues in the Ministry of Justice to respond to him on those points.

Paid Directorships and Consultancies (MPs)

Karl Turner Excerpts

Wednesday 17th July 2013 Commons Chamber

[David Morris]

That makes the point that the whole motion is very badly written. My hon. Friend should be remunerated if he works. My hon. Friend the Member for Montgomeryshire (Glyn Davies), who was here earlier, is a farmer, and he made a good point. If he earned money from his farm but had to give it away, how would his farm stay open and profitable? He is a Member of Parliament but he has to be a farmer as well.

[Karl Turner (Kingston upon Hull East) (Lab)]

On this very basic point, does the hon. Gentleman think that his constituents would find it acceptable for him to have two, three or perhaps even more forms of employment as well as being a Member of this House?

[David Morris]

The hon. Gentleman will have to do a lot better than that, because I have only one job, and that is Member of Parliament for Morecambe and Lunesdale. We were not all hatched out of an egg as a politician. Some people here have businesses such as farming that go back for generations. We have to take all this into consideration, and the motion does not do so.

Many of these outside earnings are from industries and companies that have a link to hon. Members’ constituencies. For example, the former right hon. Member for South Shields earned £175,000 for being vice-chairman of Sunderland football club. He is a man I greatly respect, I might add, before I get any accusations thrown at me in that regard. That was clearly not part of his work in this House, but it assisted his constituency. It could therefore be argued that he should not be expected to do all that work for free because it is in line with and complements his parliamentary work.

Whatever one’s view, would it not be better to allow the voters to decide? We have achieved transparency. We should not be creating rule after rule just to grab headlines. What we are debating, as ever, strikes at the hypocrisy of the Opposition. They are worried about corporate lobbyists but not trade unions. They want to complain about outside earnings even though lots of their Members are being paid by the unions. They are worried about party funding, yet Co-op remains the only company in this country to own a political party. [Interruption.] This is phoney outrage.

Business of the House

Karl Turner Excerpts

Thursday 4th July 2013 Commons Chamber

[Karl Turner (Kingston upon Hull East) (Lab)]

May we have a debate on the Government’s latest plans to reform civil legal aid? Last Thursday we had an excellent debate in the Chamber on the reforms, but the issue of civil legal aid was largely missed, particularly with regard to judicial review and the Lord Chancellor’s barmy idea not to allow prisoners to access legal advice unless and only if they are opposing a parole decision.

[Mr Lansley]

The hon. Gentleman must recognise the requirement to reform legal aid; there are issues of fairness, of quantum and of the resources expended on legal aid, and there is also the need to secure savings. My right hon. Friend the Lord Chancellor rightly has made it clear that those savings had to be achieved, but has listened to the representations made in the consultation. The Law Society was very clear that it was able to accommodate additional choice while understanding that the need for savings had to be met. It was very fair on the part of the Lord Chancellor to respond positively to that.