Social Security (Special Rules for End of Life) Bill [Lords]

Debate between Justin Tomlinson and Victoria Prentis

2nd reading
Thursday 8th September 2022 Commons Chamber

[The Minister of State, Department for Work and Pensions (Victoria Prentis)]

The thoughts and prayers of the House and, indeed, the whole nation are obviously with those in Balmoral at the moment.

It is nevertheless a great honour to debate this extremely important—if quite short—Bill, and to hear, from all parts of the Chamber, very personal stories and a passionate desire for us to do what we can to make the welfare system better for those who are nearing the end of their lives. Like so many others, I myself have buried both my child and my mother, and I strongly believe that we must do everything we can to help people to achieve the best possible death. This Bill is part of that passion.

I want to pay tribute to some of the people who share the passion. We have heard from some of them this afternoon, and we have heard from others who are no longer in this place. I should include in that list the former Member of Parliament for Hastings and Rye, who felt very firmly that she wanted to initiate and engage with such a Bill. We heard a passionate speech from my predecessor, my hon. Friend the Member for North Swindon (Justin Tomlinson). He has done a marvellous job for years, and indeed this afternoon, when he responded to many of the points to which I would otherwise have had to respond, as the Minister who has been in place for only hours, not days.

We have also heard about the former Member of Parliament for Bridgend, and it is such a pleasure to see her in the Public Gallery this afternoon to witness the conclusion of many years of work and passion. The hon. Member for Newport East (Jessica Morden) has carried on that work in this place, and it was good to hear from her as well. The hon. Member for Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch and Strathspey (Drew Hendry), the Scottish National party spokesman and the chair of the all-party parliamentary group on terminal illness, has also worked very hard on issues relating to end-of-life care. It is good to feel consensus this afternoon, and I am really pleased to bring the Bill to this stage, although I feel slightly embarrassed, as others have been working in the area for so long.

I will touch very briefly on the questions that were asked in the course of this very short debate. They relate partly to time. It is important to get this right, and we had to consult. I say this as a new Minister: it is really important that we listen to both patients and clinicians. That always takes time. We have had a global pandemic in that time, but I agree that it is of course important for those who are dying that we roll out the rest of the policy as soon as possible. We are very much hoping that measures can be put in place and operational by April of next year.

The hon. Member for Reading East (Matt Rodda) was kind enough to mention turnaround times. As a very new member of the Department, I am proud of the turnaround times. The fast-track approach means that there is a three-day average turnaround time in the special department that deals with the special rules. I think that is fantastic, and should reassure those across the House who are concerned about whether the system will have the capacity for these very special claims for people who are nearing the end of their lives. If I may use the words of the hon. Member for Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch and Strathspey and change them a bit, I feel that there is an “computer says yes” attitude in that section of the Department. That is right and proper, and I will do all I can to ensure that that is maintained, and, yes, we will monitor the progress of the policy extremely carefully and it is right that we do that.

It is important that we listen to clinicians on the time limit. This is a difficult area. It is difficult for clinicians to have these conversations with patients and families, and it is difficult for them to know everything about the progress of a disease. As the hon. Member for Westminster North (Ms Buck) said, it is sometimes almost impossible to tell.

[Justin Tomlinson]

On the specific point about clinicians, it is also about striking a balance. Clinicians do not want to be an extension of the DWP or the social security system. It was therefore also important to piggyback on existing work rather than creating arbitrary work. Clinicians have enough pressures, and they made that crystal clear in the engagement we had with them.

[Victoria Prentis]

My hon. Friend puts it much better than I can, and I thank him warmly for his engagement. The consultation was extensive and almost 1,000 clinicians were able to share their views. I would also like to reassure the House that we have a robust system in place to keep checking in to make sure that the system works in the best way it possibly can.

Social Security (Special Rules for End of Life) Bill [Lords]

Debate between Justin Tomlinson and Victoria Prentis

Committee stage
Thursday 8th September 2022 Commons Chamber

[Victoria Prentis]

I understand that the hon. Member for Glasgow North (Patrick Grady) does not intend to press new clause 1, yet it raises the significant issue of renewing the policy, so I will address it.

The Government introduced this Bill following extensive engagement with clinicians, patient groups and others on the support provided to those whose life is coming to an end. As the Committee knows, this engagement began in 2019. The Bill’s change to extend eligibility under the special rules from six months to 12 months was strongly supported during the evaluation. There was significant support from clinicians for a 12-month approach because they feel it is important to align the definition of “end of life” in the benefits system with the definition used in the NHS.

The DWP has engaged extensively with the devolved Administrations on the changes proposed in this Bill. In particular, the Department is in close contact with the Scottish Government to ensure that Scottish people who are nearing the end of their life and looking to access benefits through the special rules are supported by the DWP for reserved benefits, and by the Scottish Government as they continue to roll out their replacement disability benefits. I do not know whether the hon. Member for Glasgow North was here to hear the Secretary of State’s answer on the Department’s engagement with the Scottish Government. As a very new Minister, it is probably better that I defer to her experience of this matter. I very much agree with what she said a little earlier.

The Department also worked closely with the Department for Communities in Northern Ireland during the evaluation to ensure that the experience of people nearing the end of their lives in Northern Ireland was properly captured. The Department for Communities has already implemented the 12-month change, and both Departments continue to work together to ensure that the principle of parity is maintained across both social security systems.

We anticipate that the changes made by this Bill, which will provide thousands more people with vital financial support, will help improve the quality of the very precious time at the end of life. The changes will mean that people in that situation, and by extension their families and carers, can worry a little less about money. In order to help raise awareness of these changes and encourage take-up, we will continue to engage widely. We hope that wider groups—clinical groups and charities—can help us to communicate to those who meet the new definition to make a claim under the special rules. We will monitor the effect of these changes carefully, and we will use our existing network and do some more proactive engagement, too. We will watch with interest as the different approach taken by the Scottish Government is fully rolled out, and I am very committed, as is my Secretary of State, to maintaining strong links with the Scottish Government.

[Justin Tomlinson]

Will the Minister also formally write to her Scottish counterparts and mirror the request, asking that they formally review their efforts and consider the weight of evidence that supports our changes to seek parity?

[Victoria Prentis]

That sounds like a very sensible suggestion from the former Minister, and if I am charged with this policy area when departmental briefs are fully worked out, I will ensure that I keep up a close dialogue with the Scottish Government on how the two systems are working, both separately and together.

We will also continue to work with the Department of Health and Social Care to assess the impact of these changes on the end of life care provided by the health and social care system as a whole. If at any time a more comprehensive evaluation of the policy is required, we will, of course, commission one, as we did in 2019. The Government want to do all they can to alleviate the pressures on those nearing the end of their lives, and on their families. Our priority is providing people with financial support quickly and compassionately. We are determined to ensure that people have certainty about when they can expect to receive their state pension and that the state pension system is fair to future generations. I hope that this answer has helped to address some of the questions that the hon. Member for Glasgow North may have had, and I understand that he does not intend to press his amendment.