Iraq: Coalition Against ISIL
Julian Lewis Excerpts(11 years ago)
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The Prime Minister
Let me give way to my hon. Friend the Member for New Forest East (Dr Lewis) and then I will make some progress.
Dr Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con)
I am glad that the Prime Minister seems to accept that air strikes alone cannot hope to be successful unless they are in close co-ordination with credible ground forces. The only ground forces he has mentioned so far are those of the Kurds and the Iraqis. What are the other Arab states proposing to do, because surely those ground forces have to be Sunni-Muslim ground forces and we need other Arab countries to supply them?
The Prime Minister
My hon. Friend makes an important point but we should tread carefully here. We are proposing to act at the request of the legitimate Iraqi Government. That Government are supposed to represent all their country—Shi’a, Sunni and Kurd. That country should be doing that, rather than relying on other countries to provide Sunni forces in order to deliver that effect.
It is important that we keep up the pressure, because it is the Iraqi Government who should be representing all their people, rather than getting proxies to do it for them.
Dr Julian Lewis
Just to illustrate some of the complications of the situation, if indeed we do bring Iran back in, is it not the case that Iran will make it absolutely certain that our other professed wish to bring down President Assad never happens? The relationships are very complex.
Mr Andrew Mitchell
My hon. Friend is right that the relationships are very complex, but that argument must not be an argument against trying. We are not trying to do this on any terms, but we must do everything that we can to achieve it.
Mr Khalid Mahmood (Birmingham, Perry Barr) (Lab)
We are here again to discuss the issue of stability and conflict in the middle east. It appears that we have not learned the lessons of a decade ago. I made one of my first speeches in this House, soon after my maiden speech, after 9/11. It is clear that we have not taken forward those lessons to provide stability for the region over the last 14 years or so.
Instead, what we and the US—using its influence in the Gulf countries—have done is to start to pump more money and weapons into Syria, which has further destabilised that region. Money has been given to people whom we may think would be our supporters and to those whom we thought were on our side. They were, we were told, moderate. We speak about the moderate Syrian people and about the freedom fighters, but the vast majority of them are affiliated to the Muslim Brotherhood, an organisation that the Prime Minister banned in this country. Yet we think that they will be our ally in resolving the issue in Syria.
A number of hon. Members today have said that the issue can be resolved only if we put more money and resources into the freedom fighters. Which of those freedom fighters will we support? The Muslim Brotherhood? Al Nusra? Will we support other extremist organisations that already exist? Will we support the unIslamic state in the region? I deliberately call it not ISIL, not ISIS nor IS; I call it, and Brummies predominantly tend to call it, the unIslamic state. That is what it is. It has no place in the religion of Islam of which I am a part. It has no place in any teachings of Islam. Those people who rape, murder and torture are carrying out things that are banned in Islam. They kill people because they might be Sunni; they kill people who are Shi’a, Christian, Yazidi and Kurds. They kill anybody who does not submit to their warped ideology. We have to be aware of what we are trying to do.
The previous Foreign Secretary went to Europe and said that we needed to lift the arms embargo against the Assad Government so we could supply those so-called moderate fighters. When he came back having made the great achievement of lifting the arms embargo, he sat down with the security people and they said, “Secretary of State ,who are you going to supply these weapons to?” Very soon he decided that there was no option of supplying weapons and decided that we would provide communication aid to those people. We create these types of vacuum. Senator McCain has been an advocate of a neo-Con policy in Syria, which is to make sure that we put in as much money and arms as we can. What we have not realised is that, as part of that effort over the past three years or so, we have created the vacuum that has allowed the unIslamic state to be formed in those regions, taking people from all the various extremist organisations there and making them even more extreme, more grotesque and more violent than any other organisation—
Dr Julian Lewis
I am anxious to give the hon. Gentleman an extra minute, because I want to hear what he thinks we should and should not do in the situation we face today. He is in danger of getting to the end of his speech without telling us.
Dr Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con)
Among the many important comments made by the hon. Member for Birmingham, Ladywood (Shabana Mahmood) was her statement that ISIL likes to place itself at the head of the Sunni Muslim community. That is why it is so absolutely essential that the Sunni Muslim regional partners of this Government must be at the forefront of any military action against what can be interpreted as the Sunni Muslim states. A great deal of what organisations such as al-Qaeda and ISIL do is deliberately provocative. They wish to provoke actions that will enable them to represent the ensuing conflict as one of infidel crusaders invading Muslim lands, which is a trap that we must at all costs try to avoid.
As my right hon. Friend the Member for Chesham and Amersham (Mrs Gillan) observed in her excellent speech, some of us are now about to vote for the fourth time on intervention in the middle east. The first time that I voted was in favour of war in Iraq, primarily because I believed what I was told about weapons of mass destruction. I must admit, however, that at the back of my mind was the thought that somewhere in Iraq were a great many moderate, democratic forces just waiting to be liberated from the oppressive rule of Saddam Hussein. I am afraid that experience taught me better, because, following the downfall of Saddam Hussein, the age-old enmity between Shi’a and Sunni Muslims came to the fore and we found ourselves in a strange triangular relationship with two forces, which in their most fundamentalist forms are highly unattractive and certainly no friends of democracy.
Indeed, the right hon. Member for Neath (Mr Hain) made the point well when he compared the situation to what happened in 1941, when the choice was made for us that the menace of Soviet communism, which frightened the west during the inter-war years, ended up being our ally because of the Nazis’ invasion of Russia. The trouble with a triangular relationship with two types of force, neither of which is friendly to democracy, is that there are no good outcomes. One can only try to arrange for the least worst outcome. We know what happened with the second world war and that it was the least worst outcome, but it still meant that half of Europe was enslaved under communism for decades.
Mr Deputy Speaker
Order. The hon. Gentleman took seven minutes in speaking. If he wants to intervene, he should remember that other Members have not yet spoken.
Dr Julian Lewis
I shall proceed.
Where are we with the current situation? When I was asked before this debate whether I would support the motion, I said that I would do so provided that the Government came forward with an integrated strategy in support of credible forces on the ground. I intervened on the Prime Minister earlier and I am glad that he is here to hear me make a point now. I asked him which Sunni forces would be on the ground for us to support. At the moment, he has only been able to come back to us with Iraqi and Kurdish forces. I must say to him that if our strategy is to get anywhere in the long term, the Arab League and the regional powers must step up and make their contribution. We cannot do it, because that would play into the hands of the Islamists.
I will be supporting the motion, with reluctance and a heavy heart, because I know that there are no good outcomes. It is a mistake to think that we can get rid of this organisation from places such as Syria and cosy up to Iran while thinking that we can pull down Assad. Those things are not compatible with each other. It is a bit of a George Orwell situation with three powers constantly shifting. The only answer to dealing with such things is the practical answer of the balance of power. We have to ensure that Sunnis cannot dominate Shi’as and that Shi’as cannot dominate Sunnis to excess.
NATO Summit
Julian Lewis Excerpts(11 years, 1 month ago)
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The Prime Minister
The short answer to that is yes, I will. As the hon. Gentleman knows, a lot of the detail of how the force will be constructed, who will contribute to it and how exactly it will work is still to be determined. The main thing is that the readiness of it is decided. May I take the moment, though, to thank him for his contribution to the NATO summit? He spoke as head of the NATO Parliamentary Assembly with great clarity and great support for what NATO is doing.
Dr Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con)
In support of what my right hon. Friend the Member for Mid Sussex (Sir Nicholas Soames) has just asked, may I draw the Prime Minister’s attention to a very important article by General Jonathan Shaw, a former director of special forces, in the Evening Standard on 5 September, in which he wrote:
“Deploying the Western military without a Muslim political plan would be folly”?
What approach will we be taking to Saudi Arabia, which has a habit of looking both ways on these questions, and where the Government appear to be friendly but sources inside Saudi Arabia supply funds to organisations like IS?
The Prime Minister
I shall certainly look at the article my hon. Friend mentions. It is sometimes hard to keep up with all the contributions and advice that retired military figures are given to offer, but I do my best. The point my hon. Friend makes is absolutely right: were there to be a military element to the strategy, it would work only if it was in conjunction with all the other parts of the strategy. As I put it, we cannot intervene over the heads of local people and leave them to pick up the pieces; it has to be part of a strategy and a plan.
EU Council, Security and Middle East
Julian Lewis Excerpts(11 years, 1 month ago)
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The Prime Minister
We are operating the legislation that in part was put forward by the Government of whom he was a member.
Dr Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con)
Does the Prime Minister agree that one of the main reasons why NATO successfully deterred and contained the then Soviet Union from 1949 to 1989 was that the rulers in the Kremlin were in no doubt at all that an attack on one NATO country would inevitably mean war with all the rest? For that reason, at the NATO summit will he bear in mind the fact that NATO membership, however hard-hearted this may seem, must never be offered to a country unless we are prepared to go to war to defend that country?
The Prime Minister
My hon. Friend speaks very good sense about this. Article 5 obligations are deadly serious and we would have to meet them if a NATO member was invaded by another country, so the point he makes is a good one.
European Council
Julian Lewis Excerpts(11 years, 3 months ago)
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Mr Speaker
Order. I am keen to accommodate more colleagues on this extremely important matter, but in order to do so I require exemplary brevity. I know that the tutorial will be provided by Dr Julian Lewis.
Dr Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con)
Trying, as always, to see the bright side of life—I am not going to sing it—is there not something to be said for having an obvious and overt federalist as Commission president rather than a covert and rather cleverer alternative?
The Prime Minister
My hon. Friend is ingenious in seeing a silver lining in every cloud. I had not got him down as one of nature’s out-and-out optimists, but I will have to reassess that judgment. We will now have to deal openly and frankly with the new Commission president if he is endorsed by the European Parliament. He did say in his manifesto—although he was not standing specifically in Britain, as it were—that we have to address the issues of reform that Britain has put on the table, and we now need to make sure that we hold him to that.
Debate on the Address
Julian Lewis Excerpts(11 years, 4 months ago)
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The Prime Minister (Mr David Cameron)
In this, the year that our troops leave Afghanistan, let me start by paying tribute to those who have lost their lives serving our country. Since 2001, 453 British servicemen and servicewomen have made the ultimate sacrifice for our safety and our security. Our troops in Afghanistan have driven out al-Qaeda from their training camps. They have helped to train Afghan forces—over 300,000 people —to take control of their own security. They have done all that we have asked of them and much more besides. Last month, we saw a presidential election in Afghanistan that has paved the way for the first ever democratic transition of power in living memory. I said at the start of this Parliament that we would get all our combat troops home by the end of 2014. By the end of this year, we will have done just that. We will never forget the sacrifices made for us. We will build a permanent memorial at the National Memorial Arboretum in Staffordshire. We must honour their memory for generations to come.
There is clearly a huge amount to be done still to turn our country around, but, as a result of the work in the previous Session, the Government have now cut the deficit by a third, cut crime by more than 10%, cut taxes for more than 26 million people, capped benefits, frozen fuel duty, helped to freeze council tax for the fourth year running and cut billions from the bloated cost of government. We have introduced a cancer drugs fund in our NHS, treated 1 million more patients a year and all but abolished mixed-sex wards. Our economy is now growing faster than at any point in the past six years: faster than those in France, in Germany, and America. There are 1.5 million more people in work, 400,000 more businesses, 1.7 million more apprenticeships and almost 700,000 fewer adults on out-of-work benefits. The claimant count has fallen in every single constituency in Great Britain over the past year. Our long-term economic plan is working, but there is much, much more to do. This Queen’s Speech sets out the next steps in seeing through this vital plan to secure our future, but it will take the rest of this Parliament and the next to finish the task of turning our country around. That is the enormity of the challenge we face, but it is matched by the strength of our commitment to sorting it out.
The Leader of the Opposition rightly talked about those MPs who, sadly, died in the previous parliamentary Session. He was right to say that the House lost one of its most respected and popular Members. Paul Goggins was a kind and brilliant man who believed profoundly in public service. As a Minister, he did vital work in Northern Ireland, and he cared passionately about delivering the devolution of policing and justice to the Province. He was one of those MPs who passionately believe that crime and insecurity affect the poorest people most, and he spoke about it with real power. He also cared deeply about the welfare of children. We are honouring his memory in this Queen’s Speech by making child neglect illegal. It is a move I know he would have supported and something I am sure will be backed on all sides of the House.
The Loyal Address was brilliantly proposed by my hon. Friend the Member for Portsmouth North (Penny Mordaunt). She showed us her characteristically shy and retiring style. It was a brilliant speech. She did her city proud and we saw a real parliamentary star.
It has already been noted by the Leader of the Opposition that my hon. Friend was once foreign affairs press adviser to President George W Bush. I am not sure which of the former President’s remarks she was responsible for, but as you would expect, Mr Speaker, I have done my research into her school reports and I understand that, despite an outstanding record, she gave up geography rather early, so I hope she was not behind the President when he asserted:
“Border relations between Canada and Mexico have never been better.”
My hon. Friend has done outstanding work in support of our armed forces, as everyone heard today, and she is herself a navy reservist. I understand that while training at Dartmouth, cadets are dunked in an icy river on Dartmoor and asked three short questions: name, rank and unit. When my hon. Friend hit the water, however, a crowd of marines formed along the bank and shouted, “Lads, we’ve got the Member of Parliament.” My hon. Friend was then asked for name, constituency, majority, votes polled, swing, number of constituents, followed by the request for a 20-minute explanation of the strategic defence and security review. Judging by her performance today, she would have done that without deviation, hesitation or repetition. She survived all that and is a great champion for Portsmouth. She helped to take Portsmouth football club, as she told us, into genuine community ownership; she is fighting around the clock to get new commercial opportunities at the Portsmouth shipyard; and, as has been said, she famously took part in ITV1’s “Splash!” to sell the Hilsea lido for the community. As the Leader of the Opposition pointed out, this is the latest example of people being asked to attempt something exceptionally difficult in front of a live audience on national television. As the Leader of the Opposition rightly said, the next one will presumably be a request to eat a sandwich live on television, and see how it all goes.
My hon. Friend has the distinction of being the only serving Member of Parliament to have captained a British amphibious assault ship. She captained HMS Bulwark, and I am sure that she was as effective a “master and commander” of that vessel as she was of this House this afternoon.
Let me turn to the seconder of the Loyal Address. My hon. Friend the Member for Mid Dorset and North Poole (Annette Brooke) has served this House with distinction for 13 years. She has done great work in that time as chair of the all-party groups on micro-finance, on ME and on breast cancer, while she spoke today about the importance of heathland, child care and nursery education—all causes close to her heart. I have looked very carefully at all the things she has championed. She failed to mention that she is also a leading voice in the campaign for the protection of endangered species—work that has taken on a new significance in recent weeks!
Last year, my hon. Friend became the chair of the Liberal Democrat parliamentary party. I was pleased to note that in a party that prides itself on democracy, she was elected unopposed. She rightly welcomed the measures in this Queen’s Speech to outlaw the appalling practice of modern-day slavery, and I know this Bill will have all-party support.
My hon. Friend has a strong track record on human rights and a history of making a case on this subject. Again, I have tried to do my research, and I can inform the House that, like many distinguished Liberal Democrats, she has, of course, been arrested. In her case, the cause was entirely honourable. She told us about her visits to Moldova and I understand that she was campaigning for children’s rights when she was detained by the authorities because she was so vigorous in rightly championing what she believed in. She prevailed in this as she has in many other causes she has championed. It was entirely appropriate that she was given the honour of seconding the Loyal Address today; she did so with style and aplomb.
Our foreign policy priorities are set out in the Gracious Speech: strong in defence of freedom and united against all threats, especially the dark shadow of extremism falling over countries such as Syria and Nigeria. On Friday, I will join hundreds of D-day veterans on the beaches of Normandy as we begin a summer of commemorations, which will also include the centenary of the beginning of the first world war. The Leader of the Opposition quite rightly spoke powerfully about this important commemoration. As we remember the sacrifices made for peace and the threats that face us today in our world, there has never been a more important time to underline our belief in collective defence.
At the NATO summit in Wales, Britain will host the largest gathering of international leaders ever to take place here in the United Kingdom. As well as seeing through the transition in Afghanistan, we will support the Ukrainian Government as they embark on tough, but necessary reforms, and we will take steps to ensure that Britain and its NATO allies have the equipment and ability to address the ever-evolving threats to our security. Britain meets its NATO commitment to spend 2% of its GDP on defence, and we will urge other countries to do the same.
Dr Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con)
The Prime Minister has almost anticipated the question that I was going to put to him. We are meeting our minimum 2% commitment to NATO; will he give an undertaking that as long as he remains Prime Minister, this country will always meet that commitment?
The Prime Minister
It is very important to meet such commitments. We will set our detailed plans in our manifesto, but throughout the time for which I have been Prime Minister, we have kept—more than kept—that commitment, and it is important for us to use our record of meeting it, at a time when we have had to make difficult decisions about spending, to encourage other countries to do the same.
European Council and Nuclear Security Summit
Julian Lewis Excerpts(11 years, 6 months ago)
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The Prime Minister
I agree with the right hon. Gentleman. This is always a difficult subject in NATO because people do not want to give up national capabilities and invest in capabilities that enhance NATO as a whole. There are some steps we need to take. We should continue to oppose the establishment of EU headquarters as unnecessary duplication. We should be working very closely with major allies that have similar capabilities, like the French, which is what the Lancaster House agreement is all about. We should encourage other countries to do what Britain is doing in matching our contribution of at least 2% of GDP and defence spending. If we did all those things, plus some more creative working together, we could enhance our capacities.
Dr Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con)
May I take it from what the Prime Minister has just said that there is then no question of the British defence budget dropping below 2% of GDP?
The Prime Minister
We currently meet the 2% threshold. These things are calculated by different countries in different ways, but I am confident that we will go on meeting our obligations to NATO.
European Council
Julian Lewis Excerpts(11 years, 7 months ago)
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The Prime Minister
The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right, and we should not only condemn the Russian action, but set out the consequences that will follow. On the referendum, a number of Members of this House have taken part in election campaigns and referendum campaigns, and it is worth thinking about how practical it is to hold a referendum between now and Sunday when there is no register, no campaign, and Ukrainian politicians cannot travel round their country. It is not only illegal but literally farcical to think of that going ahead and in any way being respected, responded to, or legitimised by the Russians or anybody else.
Dr Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con)
Have the arrangements we have put in place for the safe withdrawal of troops and especially heavy equipment from Afghanistan by the end of this year in any way been affected by the tension that has arisen between us and Russia?
The Prime Minister
We have not received any information that would lead us to think that. If we are going to take steps—diplomatically, politically and, potentially, economically—we should take them because it is the right thing to do. We should recognise that there may be consequences from some of those things. There could be consequences for the City of London and some European defence industries, or for energy or other interests around Europe. However, we should proceed knowing that what we are doing is sensible, legitimate, proportionate, consistent and right.
Oral Answers to Questions
Julian Lewis Excerpts(11 years, 9 months ago)
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Greg Clark
The right hon. Gentleman does not have a shred of credibility, because Labour voted against the proposals that would have blocked that. Of course, we all know that 408 peers were created under the previous Labour Government.
Dr Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con)
Does my right hon. Friend have any idea whether the Deputy Prime Minister has adopted a new year’s resolution to stop blocking the eminently sensible proposal of his own former party leader, Lord Steel, for modest but necessary House of Lords reform?
Greg Clark
I have a post-Christmas gift for my hon. Friend: the Government are indeed supporting—[Hon. Members: “Hurrah!”] Ah, we are back. The Government, including my right hon. Friend the Deputy Prime Minister, have announced that we will support the very sensible and modest, common-sense proposals in the Bill proposed by our hon. Friend the Member for North Warwickshire.
The Attorney-General
The hon. Lady will be aware that we are seeking to introduce many efficiencies into the system, including digital working, early guilty plea systems and better warning of witnesses. Some of those are in the hands of the Crown Prosecution Service, but others, as she will appreciate, are not. They lie with my right hon. Friend the Lord Chancellor and the Court Service. There is a great drive for efficiency: efficiency delivers savings and in a time of austerity, there is no doubt that improving the efficiency of the Court Service and of the throughput of the criminal justice system is one of the highest priorities—both for me and, I know, for the Director of Public Prosecutions.
Dr Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con)
Can anything be done to rectify a perceived imbalance in criminal cases where the person on trial has direct access to the barrister who is representing him while the victim, as a witness, has no direct access to the prosecutor? Victims sometimes feel that their case is not as fully understood by the prosecutor as it should be. Can anything be done about that?
The Attorney-General
There are limits to what is feasible, although it is also right to say to my hon. Friend that the previous practice, whereby the prosecuting counsel could have no contact whatever with the witness, is now at an end. There is now an opportunity for an introduction and an explanation of how the court process is likely to develop, which I think is a great improvement. That said, there should be no suggestion that a witness is being coached, which my hon. Friend will appreciate could undermine a prosecution case. Those two things have to be balanced. A point that was always made to me when I prosecuted was the absolute necessity of informing witnesses, introducing oneself to them and keeping them informed within the bounds of propriety and the court process about what is actually going on, including talking to witnesses who turn up to find that they are not needed because the defendant has pleaded guilty. It is important to explain that to them.
Detainee Inquiry
Julian Lewis Excerpts(11 years, 9 months ago)
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Mr Clarke
Given that somebody has been briefing in advance, which I give the assurance is certainly not me or anybody with my authority, it is already clear that people are drawing the conclusions that we would anticipate them drawing if they already happened to be on one side of the argument or another before we started, and that, I am afraid, will continue. The right hon. Lady makes an extremely important point, and Sir Peter makes it clear at least twice in the report he is publishing today that it is quite wrong, and indeed impossible, to make findings of fact, and certainly any findings concerning any individuals involved, before he has called evidence, called them before him if necessary, given them an opportunity to explain and completed these investigations. That is why this inquiry identifies issues, which the ISC will now consider and decide whether and how to pursue. It has not made any findings of fact. In this country it would be quite wrong to make findings of fact of any kind, or to draw adverse inferences against anybody, when nobody has given any evidence, nobody has been challenged, and nobody has been given a chance to give their own explanation of events.
Dr Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con)
May I reassure my hon. Friend the Member for Chichester (Mr Tyrie) that the agencies do not have the power to withhold sensitive material from the ISC, of which I am a member? If they wish to do so, they have to appeal directly to the Prime Minister. In every other respect, they have to give us what we want to see. May I also remind the House that the ISC has been keen to get to grips with this matter, and that it actually started its own investigation, which had to be stayed when the Gibson inquiry was set up? Finally, may I give the House a personal assurance that, notwithstanding the context of trying to bring Libya back within the comity of nations, there are members of the ISC—one third of whom are senior Labour Members—who, far from endorsing any whitewash, would take a great deal of convincing that it was ever reasonable, proportionate or justifiable to supply people to Colonel Gaddafi’s regime?
Oral Answers to Questions
Julian Lewis Excerpts(11 years, 10 months ago)
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The Prime Minister
The hon. Gentleman raises an important issue, and I am happy to look at that, having suffered that experience myself. As a Member of Parliament, it is possible to take a little bit of time to stand back and come to terms with what has happened, because colleagues and the people who help us are ready to step in and do what they can. He has raised an important point; let me look at it and get back to him.
Dr Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con)
Q10. If he will rule out the removal of continuous at-sea nuclear deterrence for as long as he is in office.
The Prime Minister
As I told my hon. Friend when he last asked about this issue, if we want a proper, functioning deterrent, we need to have the best. That means a permanent, at-sea, submarine-based posture, and that is what a Conservative-only Government after the next election will deliver.
Dr Lewis
May I reassure my right hon. Friend that that excellent answer will remain on my website for as long as it takes for the pledge to be fulfilled? I notice that he used the words “Conservative-only Government”. Will he reassure the House that never again will Liberal Democrats be allowed to obstruct or delay the signing of the main gate contracts, and will he undertake to sign those contracts at the earliest possible opportunity?
The Prime Minister
I would say a couple of things to my hon. Friend. First, investment in our nuclear deterrent has not ceased. Actually, we are taking all the necessary steps to make that main gate decision possible. Also, we have had the alternative study, which I do not think came up with a convincing answer. I have to say, however, that I do not feel that I would satisfy him even if I gave him a nuclear submarine to park off the coast of his New Forest constituency. [Laughter.]