Mitochondrial Replacement (Public Safety)

Julian Huppert Excerpts

Monday 1st September 2014 Commons Chamber

[Fiona Bruce (Congleton) (Con)]

I beg to move,

That this House takes note of the Human Fertilisation and Embryology Authority’s most recent scientific review into the safety and efficacy of mitochondrial replacement techniques which highlights concerns for subsequent generations of children born through maternal spindle transfer and pronuclear transfer; welcomes the recent comments of scientists including Professor Lord Winston that, prior to the introduction of such techniques, more research ought to be undertaken and a full assessment conducted of the potential risk to children born as a result; and calls upon the Government, in light of these public safety concerns, to delay bringing forward regulations on mitochondrial replacement.

I am pleased to move this motion and to have gained support from so many Members from across the House, and I thank the Backbench Business Committee for allowing us the time to debate it.

It is in our interest as a nation to be at the cutting edge of technological progress. However, in striving for such progress, we cannot afford to cut corners when it comes to public safety. Surely this can nowhere be more true than in relation to the proposal that pronuclear transfer or PNT and maternal spindle transfer or MST be permitted in an attempt to create children who do not inherit mitochondrial disease. In 2011, 2013 and 2014, the Human Fertilisation and Embryology Authority or HFEA assessed the safety of the procedures, and on every occasion it reported that further research was required before the public could be satisfactorily reassured regarding them. It described experiments as “critical”, with some not even having started in June 2014. It stated that

“there are still experiments that need to be completed before clinical treatment should be offered. The panel considers that some of these experiments are critical and others desirable.”

Even more concerning, it stated, was that

“the process cannot be expected to guarantee safety or efficacy when applied for the first time in a clinic.”

In other words, to allow these procedures at present would be tantamount to experimentation.

[Dr Julian Huppert (Cambridge) (LD)]

Does the hon. Lady accept that when anything is tried on a human for the first time, we cannot be absolutely certain what will happen? Is she really saying that we should not do anything—no cancer treatment, nothing—until we are absolutely 100% certain that there are no side effects? Does she not accept that we are trying to treat hideous diseases?

[Fiona Bruce]

I accept that in no case can one be 100% sure that a technique will be safe. However, we are very far from that in this case. This is a case of genetic engineering; it is the alteration of a potential human being—the removal of certain genes and their replacement with others, to create children. Surely, in such cases, we should be very careful over safety before we proceed.

--- Later in debate ---

[Dr Julian Huppert (Cambridge) (LD)]

It is pleasure to speak in this debate, and I pay tribute to the work of so many, but particularly the Lily Foundation and the Wellcome Trust which have done a huge amount to prepare for this debate, to educate the public, to support Members of Parliament and to support some of the research.

I do not know, Mr Deputy Speaker, if you or others in this House have met people with serious mitochondrial disorders, but those disorders are absolutely awful. Cells fail to function, and people can get seizures, strokes, blindness, deafness, heart failure, lung failure and liver failure. Most of the people afflicted will not survive to adulthood. There is no treatment and no cure, and about 1 in 6,500 babies born will suffer from something like this. I would hope everybody in this House would want to stop that, and I simply do not understand how opponents of this can argue that they want to continue to inflict that sort of suffering on so many children, because that is the consequence of not finding a way to treat these disorders.

The hon. Member for Congleton (Fiona Bruce) expressed concern that there may be consequences for people who are helped in this way. Her first example was, I think—I am sure she will correct me if I am wrong—lower fertility. Now, that is possible—we will not know until we try it on people—but if I had a choice between a hideous disease that was likely to kill me before adulthood or the possibility of lower fertility, I know which one I would choose.

We also heard the comparison to eugenics. This is fundamentally different. Mitochondrial DNA is very different from nuclear DNA. It has a very different history, and it is a fascinating history—I used to work on mitochondrial DNA and other nucleic acids so I have some interest in this. This is not the same as eugenics, as the right hon. Member for Havant (Mr Willetts) explained well—it is good to have him in the Chamber, even if he is not in his former place.

We have heard arguments about multiple parents and the idea that this approach means that somehow there are three parents, but there are clearly two parents. I have not heard people say that if someone is given an organ donation and they have someone else’s organ inside them, they then have four parents because they have a lot of different DNA inside them which could interact. I think—I would hope—that all of us support organ donation, because it has saved many, many lives. Why should we not allow what is, in effect, mitochondrial donation?

We have heard the view that we should wait for there to be much greater safety. My mother had breast cancer a couple of years ago and she wanted to choose which of the two most modern treatments she should have. She wanted to know what the life expectancy was and whether she would live for 15 more years with either treatment. The answer was, of course, that we do not know, because with the most modern treatments we have not waited 15 years to find out. But I do not think any of us would say that we should not use any single cancer treatment that has been used this century because we do not know whether someone will live for 15 years after having it.

[Graham Stringer (Blackley and Broughton) (Lab)]

I agree completely with what the hon. Gentleman is saying. Does he agree that the motion would be better if it was asking for these enabling regulations to be hurried up? They will take into account, as much as one can, all the safety issues, and by delaying them we may be condemning more children to horrible diseases that could be prevented if we hurried this process up.

[Dr Huppert]

The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right, but I would improve the motion in a number of ways. I would not try to characterise Lord Winston’s position as being fundamentally different from what it is. I would also say that we need to have these regulations so that the tests can be done and so that we can go ahead with clinical trials and find out what happens in humans. I hope that the Government will introduce the regulations promptly. It has been useful to have this airing of views, but it will be helpful when we have the regulations before us to have that debate. This House will then be able to vote on whether or not to adopt the regulations.

[Lady Hermon (North Down) (Ind)]

May I assume—I am sure I am right in doing so—that this technique has already been trialled on mice and that the hon. Gentleman will know whether those trials have been successful? It would help the House if he could enlighten us about the success or otherwise of using this technique on mice.

[Dr Huppert]

I do not have a list of the organisms it has been tested on, but it has been widely tested on a number of organisms—I assume that mice are one, but I could not be absolutely certain—and has been successful. Obviously, if it was not successful on any other organism, it would be perverse to want to go ahead with it. However, I do not have details on the experiments with me.

I understand and appreciate that some people have genuine religious or ethical objections about interfering with an embryo. They are entirely welcome to make that case, but they should not claim other reasons as a cover for that. People are welcome to their ethical opinions—that is fine—but to say that we should not do this because we should wait indefinitely for more and more tests, so that we can be more and more sure before we ever try it in a human is simply to condemn more children to more pain and more anguish. That is not the right way to go. We do need to do more tests; there is much more to do before this will become a regular thing on the NHS and people can be saved—there is no doubt about that. But for that to happen, it has to be tested in humans—it has to be tested in children. We will help at that point, and I hope we will have children who do not have the sort of hideous problems we see now. I urge the Government to get on with this. We have to reduce the number of children who have these hideous conditions. The Government have the chance to reduce it and they should act promptly.

--- Later in debate ---

[Dr Huppert]

indicated dissent.

[Ian Paisley]

Yes, you did. Check Hansard. You said, “You have inflicted this disease on people.”

The debate has got very personal—it has gone into that realm—and people are trying to felon set, to emotionally blackmail, to emotionally charge the debate and to say that people are, to quote another Member, scaring us into opposing this. We must be abundantly clear that such emotional blackmail should be removed from the debate. There should be an honest debate and we should be allowed to discuss the ethics and to put on the table our views, including our moral views.