Finance Bill

Judith Cummins Excerpts

Committee of the whole House
Wednesday 11th December 2024 Commons Chamber

[Judith Cummins in the Chair]

[The First Deputy Chairman of Ways and Means (Judith Cummins)]

I remind Members that in Committee they should not address the Chair as Madam Deputy Speaker. Please use our names when addressing the Chair. “Madam Chair”, “Chair” and “Madam Chairman” are also acceptable.

Clause 47

Removal of exemption for private school fees

Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.

[The Chairman]

With this it will be convenient to consider the following:

Clauses 48 and 49 stand part.

New clause 8—Statements on charging VAT on private school fees—

“(1) The Secretary of State must, within six months of this Act being passed, make a statement to Parliament about the removal of the exemption for private school fees introduced by section 47 of this Act, and other changes to private school fees introduced by sections 48 and 49 of this Act.

(2) The statement under subsection (1) must include details of the impact on—

(a) pupils with special educational needs and disabilities,

(b) small rural schools, and

(c) faith schools.

(3) The Secretary of State must, within 18 months of this Act being passed, make a statement about the impact of the removal of the exemption on schools that take part in the music and dance scheme.”

This new clause requires the Secretary of State to make a statement about the impact of charging VAT on private school fees.

New clause 9—Pupils with SEND without an Education Health and Care Plan: review of VAT provisions—

“(1) The Chancellor of the Exchequer must, within six months of the passing of this Act and every six months thereafter, lay before Parliament a review of the impact of the measures contained in sections 47 to 49 of this Act on pupils with special educational needs and disabilities.

(2) The review must consider in particular the impact of those measures on—

(a) children with special needs who do not have an education health and care plan (EHCP); and

(b) the number of children whose families have applied for an EHCP.”

This new clause would require the Government to produce an impact assessment of the effect of the VAT provisions in the Act on pupils who have special educational needs but do not have an Education Health and Care Plan.

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[James Murray]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for raising the continuity of education allowance, because the Government greatly value the contribution of our diplomatic staff and serving personnel. The continuity of education allowance is therefore provided to ensure that the need for frequent mobility does not interfere with the education of their children. As he may know, the Ministry of Defence and the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office have increased the funding allocated to the continuity of education allowance, to account for the impact of any private school fee increases on the proportion of fees covered by the CEA, in line with how the allowance normally operates.

The Government have carefully considered the impacts of the policies set out in clause 47 and received a wide range of representations covering topics that have already been raised in the debate today. The Government received more than 17,000 consultation responses, and my officials and I have met those representing schools, local authorities and devolved Governments. As a result of these representations, the Government have made several changes to the legislation, including to clarify the treatment of nurseries. In deciding on the final design of the policy, we have made sure that schools are treated fairly and consistently.

A number of hon. Members have raised with me concerns about the impact of this measure on particular types of schools and on different pupils, so I am glad to have this chance to address some of those points. First, to protect pupils with special educational needs that can be met only in a private school, the local authorities and devolved Governments that fund these places will be compensated for the VAT they are charged on those pupils’ fees. Secondly, as I just mentioned in response to the intervention on military and diplomatic families, the Ministry of Defence and the Foreign Office have agreed to increase the funding allocated to the continuity of education allowance to account for the impact of private school fee increases.

The Government are aware that while many schools have always offered schemes enabling the prepayment of fees, there were concerning reports of some parents using such schemes in an attempt to avoid these fees being subject to VAT. The Government believe that allowing fees paid from the date of the July statement to the date this policy comes into force to be paid without charging VAT on them would be unfair on the vast majority of families who will be unable to pay years-worth of fees in advance. The changes made by clause 48 will therefore introduce anti-forestalling provisions that will apply to all prepayments of private school fees and boarding services on or after 29 July 2024 and before 30 October 2024. Finally, clause 49 sets out the commencement date for these changes, which will apply to any fees paid on or after 29 July 2024 relating to the term starting in January 2025.

To conclude, the reason the Government are raising funding from the changes we are debating today is to increase investment in the state education system. Every parent aspires for high-quality education for their children. The removal of the VAT exemption for private schools will help to support the Government’s investment in schools and ensure that every child has a chance to thrive. We are determined to be a Government who enable the aspirations of all parents to be met and who ensure that all children have the opportunity to succeed. I therefore commend these clauses to the Committee.

[The First Deputy Chairman of Ways and Means (Judith Cummins)]

I call the Opposition spokesperson.

[James Wild (North West Norfolk) (Con)]

I rise to speak on behalf of the Opposition, and particularly to new clause 8. Let me start by briefly considering the context in which we are debating the Bill. It comes after a Budget in which the Chancellor said that we must have

“an economy that is growing, creating wealth and opportunity for all”—[Official Report, 30 October 2024; Vol. 755, c. 811.]

But that is not what this Finance Bill delivers. Instead, the Budget is forecast to deliver lower growth, higher borrowing and higher inflation.

The Minister referred to choices, and the Government have indeed made choices. They have chosen to tax enterprise, to tax the wealth creators and to tax the farmers who are, again, outside Parliament protesting against the family farm tax—I wonder whether, on one of his rare jaunts to this country, the Prime Minister has gone out to speak to them. Rather than promote opportunity, it was the Government’s choice to bring in a new tax on aspiration.

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[The First Deputy Chairman]

Order. May I remind Members that interventions need to be on the point and to pose a question?

[Rachel Gilmour]

Blundell’s school is also in Tiverton. Would the hon. Member be surprised to hear that when canvassing in Tiverton, in areas that might be considered relatively poor, I met numerous grandparents who were saving money every month to help their children to pay for a better future for their own children at Blundell’s school, through bursaries?

Farming and Inheritance Tax

Judith Cummins Excerpts

Wednesday 4th December 2024 Commons Chamber

[Samantha Niblett (South Derbyshire) (Lab)]

I am quite astonished because, as we sat in a pub car park in the run-up to the general election, farmers in my constituency told me—I kid you not—that they know they do better under a Labour Government but they often vote Conservative. It feels like the Conservatives have taken their loyalty for granted. The right hon. Gentleman has been talking about how hard things are, and I agree with him. Farmers talk about their margins, and those margins are tight, but who caused them to be in that situation? We are now in a position of power—

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Judith Cummins)]

Order. I remind Members that interventions need to be interventions. They should be brief and ask a question that is relevant to the speech being made.

[David Mundell]

I do not know whether the hon. Member for South Derbyshire (Samantha Niblett) was here for the speech of the hon. Member for Penrith and Solway, but he set out exactly what happened to him as a Labour MP, having given farmers assurances about what Labour would do in government and the farmers finding that they had been betrayed. Now, the choice is not final, as he said, and hopefully this debate has shown the passion of both farmers and those who represent rural constituencies.

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[Several hon. Members rose—]

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Judith Cummins)]

Order. Members will be aware that I am starting the wind-ups at 4.40 pm precisely. For the last few minutes, I call Lewis Cocking.

[Lewis Cocking (Broxbourne) (Con)]

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Broxbourne is not known for its farms, but this year’s boundary changes have seen my agricultural land increase. This tax will also affect thousands of my constituents through the supply chain and buying food at supermarkets. However, I want to concentrate on something we keep hearing from Labour Members. We are told that the farmers represented by Opposition MPs or Conservative MPs are completely against the policy, and we are told time and again by Labour Members, as a number have stood up to say today, that they have spoken to their farmers, who seem happy about it, and they are going to vote with the Government. So I thought I would go out there and put that to the test.

As I have said, my seat has had boundary changes and farms have moved into my constituency. If this one farm had remained in the original seat before the general election, it would now be represented by a Labour Member, but it is not: it moved into my constituency and it is represented by a Conservative Member. I asked this farmer, when I went to visit them, if they are completely against this policy. They said, “Yep, absolutely, Lewis. This will destroy our family farm.” I asked them if, pre-boundary changes, they were in their old seat and had a Labour Member of Parliament, their view would still be the same. They said to me, “Don’t be so silly, Lewis; of course it would be the same.” So I do not understand which farmers Labour Members are speaking to, because their views cannot be different from the views of my farmers. Thousands of them from across the country, including my constituency and the wider Hertfordshire area, came to Westminster to show their displeasure with the Government, so will Labour Members please think again, vote with us today and stand up for their farmers?

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Judith Cummins)]

I call the shadow Minister.

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[Daniel Zeichner]

No. I am afraid that the right hon. Gentleman came in late, and if you turn up late, you do not get to speak. [Interruption.] I recognise the frustration and anxiety being felt by farmers around the country. [Interruption.]

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Judith Cummins)]

Order. I am sure that hon. Members want to listen to the Minister. I know that my constituents certainly do, and farmers across the country certainly will.

[Daniel Zeichner]

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I am not sure that Conservative Members do want to listen, really.

As a result of the anxiety that we know people are feeling, it is right that the Prime Minister, the Environment Secretary and I have all met with the NFU president Tom Bradshaw to talk about the proposed reforms. The Government have and will continue to engage with the NFU, the CLA, the Tenant Farmers Association and other stakeholders. The reforms will not be introduced until April 2026, so there is plenty of time for people to plan for change and to get, as they always should when running major businesses, professional advice about succession planning.

Let us be honest: last month’s protests were not just about APR. Rural communities have felt ignored and let down by this place after decades of failure. The Conservatives sold out British farmers in trade deals with New Zealand and Australia. I listened to the shadow Secretary of State, the right hon. Member for Louth and Horncastle (Victoria Atkins)—did we get any apology for the trade deals? Not a word; no contrition. They have learned nothing. They left farmers facing spiralling energy bills because they refused to invest in cheaper home-grown British power—a decision that sent fertiliser and animal feed costs soaring.

The Conservatives were so incompetent that they failed to get £300 million earmarked for farmers out the door, leaving farmers out of pocket as the money sat idle in Treasury coffers. The disastrous kamikaze Budget crashed Britain’s economy and sent interest rates and mortgages skyrocketing, at massive cost to our farmers and rural communities. As a result of all that, public services are broken; hospital waiting lists are at record highs; schools in rural areas are crumbling—if Conservative Members use them, of course—and roads across country areas are cratered with potholes.

Rural communities are rightly feeling ignored and left behind. This Government will not accept that. These reforms will disincentivise the wealthy from buying up agricultural land to shield their wealth from inheritance tax, and they will also raise the money needed to fix those public services. This is a turning point for national renewal. The Budget also commits £5 billion to agriculture over the next two years.

National Insurance Contributions (Secondary Class 1 Contributions) Bill

Judith Cummins Excerpts

2nd reading
Tuesday 3rd December 2024 Commons Chamber

Second Reading

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Judith Cummins)]

The reasoned amendment in the name of Mel Stride has been selected.

Finance Bill

Judith Cummins Excerpts

2nd reading
Wednesday 27th November 2024 Commons Chamber

[Tom Hayes]

You talk about increasing inflation, yet we saw record levels of inflation—11%—under the Conservative Government, one third of which was caused by our exposure to gas shocks. Does he agree with this Labour Government that we need to invest in clean energy, so that we are no longer left vulnerable to foreign dictators and their control of fossil fuel markets?

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Judith Cummins)]

Order. Before the hon. Member answers that intervention, I remind Members not to use the word “you”. Moreover, this is a debate on the Second Reading of the Finance Bill, so can we please make comments, interventions and speeches relevant to the Finance Bill?

[Jerome Mayhew]

I am grateful for that intervention. Inflation 11% was a direct consequence of the Russian invasion of Ukraine, as everyone knows, but what is important is that the Conservative Government took the difficult decision to get it down to a target of 2%. It is already creeping up under Labour, and it will be higher than it otherwise would have been as a direct consequence of these measures. Do not trust my word for that; that comes directly from the OBR. Again, the OBR tells us that mortgage rises will occur directly because of the decisions of Government Members. Union activity will be up, with the consequential impact on productivity and efficiency of our private sector. The size of the state will go up and, shamefully, the tax take will be the highest since records began. I will not support this Finance Bill, or its Second Reading, so Labour Members will have to take the consequences of their own decisions.

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[Dr Arthur]

My hon. Friend mentioned partygate, but it goes far beyond that. We have to remember that the dodgy contracts that went to mates and donors brought our country into utter disrepute. In this Finance Bill debate, does he recognise the financial impact of that on the country?

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Judith Cummins)]

Order. I once again remind Members that interventions should be on what is in front of us: the Second Reading of the Finance Bill.

[Josh Simons]

I absolutely take that point, but I will remind Conservative Members of the simple argument I am making in case they have lost the thread of it. I am going through the measures in the Budget that may have been lost by media scrutiny of some of the bigger measures. My question is: how would they pay for those measures? If they support them, they need to answer that question posed by the Bill today. As the Minister said earlier, the first words in Labour’s manifesto were about restoring economic stability. If Conservative Members support some of the measures I am describing, they must themselves answer the question of how they would pay for them.

I will mention three more measures before I close. These measures specifically benefit the region that I am proud to represent in the north-west, and they will drive growth not just here in London and the south-east, but right across the country, including in Wigan and the towns across Makerfield. The first measure is the electrification of the Wigan to Bolton line, which will mean that constituents in Hindley will benefit from more reliable train services that do not get cancelled, as they have repeatedly been over the past two weeks due to the weather.

The second measure is an increase in the household support fund of £66 million in the north-west. That will specifically help those just above the pension credit threshold who none the less need support this winter.

The third and final measure is the integrated settlement with our trailblazing Labour Mayor Andy Burnham in Greater Manchester, meaning that we can cap bus fares at £2. It also means that we will trailblaze the Live Well centres, which working people will benefit from and those out of work will be provided with the holistic support they need to get back into work.

Those are the measures that this Finance Bill supports. The question for Conservative Members is: will they support the measures that pay for those provisions? If they will not, they will continue to be the party that does not restore economic stability, that crashed the economy and that sent mortgage rates spiralling. The first and most important thing this Labour Government have done and will always do is protect the economic stability of this nation.

A person’s character is most on display in watching what they do when nobody else is looking. I cannot remember who said that—either a former Prime Minister or a baseball coach in the United States. A Government’s character is often in the things that get less attention, that demonstrate whose side that Government are on. In the provisions, the Government have demonstrated that they are on the side of miners, carers, commuters and workers in Makerfield, Greater Manchester and the north-west. What this Finance Bill shows me is that this is a Government who will tear down any barrier that gets in the way of us delivering for working people in the United Kingdom.

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[Chris Vince]

I don’t really want to give away my dog’s name—I don’t know why.

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, for the opportunity to speak in support of the Bill. This is not just another piece of legislation; it is a crucial step towards boosting growth in some of our most dynamic industries, from the creative sector to financial services. It is aimed at repairing our public finances and bringing much-needed economic and fiscal stability, and it considers every person from every walk of life to create a fairer future for everyone. Last week the Chancellor outlined the Government’s plans for growth, focusing on high-growth sectors that will drive our economy forward. The Bill is a key part of that vision, introducing important tax changes to support the UK’s creative industries, speed up our shift to clean energy and enhance our financial markets.

For too long the burden of taxation has fallen disproportionately on working people. The Bill addresses that imbalance—it finds that balance and the fairest way to do it. By choosing not to extend the freeze on income tax and national insurance thresholds, the Government are ensuring that personal tax thresholds will rise with inflation from April 2028. That protects hard-working families from what I would consider stealth tax increases. The Bill also delivers on the promise to maintain the fuel duty freeze and a temporary 5p cut. I know that is welcome for residents and motorists in Harlow, as they have suffered for many years with the appalling state of the roads. We all know about the dreaded potholes, and the Government are doing what they can on that as well.

I will not go on too much about the removal of the VAT exemption on private schools, because I spent a lot of time talking about that on Monday. However, I am delighted that it will generate additional revenue to invest in our public services, including our schools. A number of schools in Harlow have suffered with reinforced autoclaved aerated concrete, and one school—Sir Frederick Gibberd college—is having to be completely rebuilt because of the previous Government’s failings.

This Finance Bill is more than just a collection of tax adjustments; it is a forward-looking plan that lays the foundation for a resilient economy. It reflects the Government’s commitment to supporting key industries that are vital to our nation, investing in sectors that promise sustainable growth, and ensuring that the UK remains at the forefront of global innovation. It creates a fair and balanced future for all.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Judith Cummins)]

I call the shadow Minister.

Budget Responsibility Bill

Judith Cummins Excerpts

Committee of the whole House
Wednesday 4th September 2024 Commons Chamber

[Darren Jones]

I beg to move, That the Bill be now read the Third time.

I will not take up too much more time, but I will provide a final reminder of how important this legislation is. At the general election, the Government received a mandate for economic growth. Sustained growth is the only route to improve prosperity and to improve the living standards of the British people. It is now our national mission.

Economic stability is key to achieving this. We have seen what happens without it, when huge, unfunded fiscal commitments are made without proper scrutiny and when key economic institutions such as the OBR are sidelined. We cannot let ourselves get into that position again. Unfunded, unassessed spending commitments not only threaten the public finances, they can threaten people’s incomes and mortgages, as we saw under the previous Government.

I therefore encourage Conservative Members—who have told us today that, after 14 years of Conservative government, the economy has never been so good—to reflect, if only for a moment, on why they lost all credibility for economic competence and suffered the worst election result in their history.

Once again, I congratulate all my hon. Friends and other hon. Members on their excellent maiden speeches today. I thank hon. and right hon. Members on both sides of the House for their contributions, and I thank the Clerks and officials who have supported the Bill’s rapid passage.

The Budget Responsibly Bill forms a small but vital part of our plan to restore economic stability and deliver economic growth. For these reasons, I commend it to the House.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Judith Cummins)]

I call the shadow Minister.

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[Alan Mak]

I think the answer from the Chief Secretary to the Treasury is no, which confirms everything we already knew. It means that the people can never trust Labour with our economy, that Labour will raise taxes and cut investment at every opportunity and that Labour’s honeymoon is well and truly over.

Question put and agreed to.

Bill accordingly read the Third time and passed.

House of Commons Commission

Resolved,

That

(1) in pursuance of section 1(2)(d) of the House of Commons (Administration) Act 1978, Rachel Blake be appointed to the House of Commons Commission, and

(2) in pursuance of section 1(2B) of that Act, the appointment of Shrinivas Honap as an external member of the Commission be extended to 30 September 2026.—(Lucy Powell.)

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Judith Cummins)]

I call Tim Farron to present a petition. The Member is not present.

Budget Responsibility Bill

Judith Cummins Excerpts

2nd reading
Tuesday 30th July 2024 Commons Chamber

[Ms Creasy]

The right hon. Member pre-empts many of my concerns. There is a very strong story to tell about good fiscal discipline, but it is not possible to do that independently in a modern, global economy, so the scrutiny that we can provide in this place of a whole range of regulations does matter. Those include financial regulations—I think particularly about the City and issues around a financial transaction tax, for example. I have not yet convinced him of the merits of working more closely with Europe, but I am confident that one day we can do so. I agree with him, however, that this House should be fully part of that, just as I believe in the principles behind the Bill—that disinfectant comes from transparency and our ability to see what is going on. That is why the Government are so right to bring this legislation forward.

Let me move on to some areas where it is right to ask what we mean by fiscally significant. The right hon. Member and I might disagree about the deal we do in resetting our relationship with Europe, but there can be no doubt that that will have a clear economic impact on this country. I think of the hauliers who are considering whether they will give up bringing goods to the UK because of the Brexit border tax. The previous Government admitted that that measure was inflationary and could have a significant impact not just on our food security, but on our economy, pushing up the cost of living. Many of our constituents know that there is still too much month at the end of their money, and we should challenge any measure that makes that harder. That will also inflect our tax take.

The point I am getting to is that if we are talking about measures that are so fiscally significant that they count for 1% of GDP, a trade deal would easily meet that criterion. We need to be clear in the Bill what we ask of the Office for Budget Responsibility—which, after all, has provided evidence on the impact, for example, of leaving the European Union—and whether we consider its role in such matters. If we are going to put everything on the books, let us make sure that the public understand fully the decisions that we make and where the information comes from.

Another area in which we as a House need to act is our outgoings, especially when we are being asked to make very difficult choices about some of the most vulnerable in our communities, such as people who rely on welfare, or pensioners who rely on the winter fuel payment. We have to be honest: this country is pretty much bankrupt as a result of the previous Administration. If somebody in that dire financial position came into one of our surgeries, we would sit with them and talk about a debt relief order. We would look at their costs and particularly at consolidating the debts that they may have.

Many colleagues here will know that for many years I have been concerned about legal loan sharking. That is not just in people’s private lives, but in the public sector, and I consider the private finance initiative to be the legal loan sharking of the public sector. If we are talking about fiscally significant measures—measures that meet the test of £28 billion—we should consider that we have £151 billion of outgoings committed to private finance companies in this country, against £57 billion-worth of assets. Most people can see that those figures do not add up.

Local authorities spend around £18 billion every two to five years on PFI repayments, of which about £4 billion is interest costs. That would suggest an average interest rate of around 35%. If somebody came into a surgery with a loan at a 35% interest rate, we would encourage them to go to a debt relief order. Our country is no different, and this matters because, individually, local authorities might not meet that fiscally significant threshold, but collectively, they will for us. We are not going to let hospitals and schools go bust and go out of business. Parklands high school in Liverpool was built under PFI. It was closed because there was not a demand for the places, but Liverpool city council is still playing £12,000 a day for that closed school. It has repayments of £42 million left and the company that owns it is making a profit of around £340,000 a year from the scheme.

Private finance companies are on our books, and they should be on our books nationally. They should be considered fiscally significant. We can do things to consolidate those loans and to reduce the outgoings that will come. My contribution to the Bill and the amendments that I might table, depending on what Ministers say, will relate to the fact that I think we need to be clear that everything that is fiscally significant—decisions that we might not proceed with and ones that we do—should be subject to that level of scrutiny.

The National Audit Office has given us plenty of information about the poor value for money of private finance initiatives. Many Members who have these schools and hospitals in their constituencies will have seen this at first hand. There is evidence from the Department of Health and Social Care about what could be done to consolidate loans that probably would generate savings that would be fiscally significant, when we talk about the sums involved. It would be fantastic to see the Office for Budget Responsibility pick this matter up as part of our knowing how much we have to pay out as a country; how much of a contribution we need to make. This money is going to private companies that, on the whole, are not paying tax in this country, so it is not generating revenue that can go back into paying for the repairs that need to come.

The previous Government started to look at these issues and then walked away. I know that this Government, with their commitment to fiscal discipline and fiscal transparency, will want to be open about the benefits, costs and fiscal significance both of the trade deals that we might make and of private finance initiatives. I look forward to hearing from Ministers about that. This is a very different world—[Interruption.] The shadow Minister is smiling. I am sure that he misses his colleague from Spelthorne, but I know he will not miss the opportunity to say sorry to all our constituents for the mess we have been left in and the reason why we need this legislation on the discipline of the OBR, and for the failure to tackle the long-term problems that have left legal loan sharks and poor trading opportunities for our constituents, because they are going to pick up the pieces for generations to come.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Judith Cummins)]

I call the Liberal Democrat spokesperson.

Autumn Statement

Judith Cummins Excerpts

Thursday 17th November 2022 Commons Chamber

[Jeremy Hunt]

It is not possible to be Health Secretary without visiting Kettering hospital and my hon. Friend is a formidable advocate for it. I remember the visit well, with how crowded the hospital was and why there is such a big need for a new hospital. We are committed to the new hospitals programme, and I will write to him with precise details about where Kettering stands in that process.

[Judith Cummins (Bradford South) (Lab)]

For absolute clarity, is the Chancellor confirming today that Transport for the North’s preferred option for Northern Powerhouse Rail with a stop in Bradford is now scrapped under this Conservative Government?

[Jeremy Hunt]

I am confirming that core Northern Powerhouse Rail will go ahead and that we are protecting our capital budget so that we can make as many other worthwhile additions to our transport infrastructure as possible.

Bankers’ Bonuses

Judith Cummins Excerpts

Tuesday 8th November 2022 Westminster Hall

[Judith Cummins (in the Chair)]

I will call Jon Trickett to move the motion, and then the Minister to respond. There will not be an opportunity for the Member in charge to wind up, as is the convention for 30-minute debates.

[Jon Trickett (Hemsworth) (Lab)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered the Government policy on bankers’ bonuses.

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairpersonship, Mrs Cummins. It is good to hear somebody from the old West Riding, as we would call it, in charge of the sitting this afternoon. I look forward to fair but firm chairpersonship.

It was the great German playwright Bertolt Brecht who once said that, to make money from banking, set up a bank rather than rob one. People make more money that way. It is clear that there needs to be a wider debate about the role of the financial sector in the British economy, but it is good to start with the remuneration structures in the finance sector. That is what this debate is about.

The previous Chancellor’s deplorable mini-Budget, as I would insist it is called, contained a series of clearly mistaken policy shifts. Following the change in Chancellor and then in Prime Minister, almost the whole of that mini-Budget disappeared, except for one thing: the idea that we should lift or remove the cap on bankers’ bonuses. I hope that the Minister will be able to change Government policy this afternoon, following my persuasion, but we will see what he says.

We have been here before on the question of bankers’ bonuses. I want quickly to recall what happened in the 2008 banking crash. As it happened, I was working in Downing Street at the time and saw clearly that we were on an economic precipice, in part because bankers’ remuneration had been allowed to let rip. The crash almost brought down our whole economic system.

When it came time to review how the crash happened, a significant part of it was attributed to the reckless culture of greed in the banking sector, which had exposed the banks to unacceptable levels of risk. Adair Turner, the then chair of the Financial Services Authority, said that

“inappropriate incentive structures played a role in encouraging behaviour which contributed to the financial crisis”.

He is hardly a man of the left, and therefore I think his words might be regarded as authoritative.

In 2009, the all-party Treasury Committee returned to the question of remuneration. It said that remuneration in the banking industry had played a role in causing the banking crisis. It questioned whether Turner’s response was strong enough and whether

“the Financial Services Authority has attached sufficient priority to tackling remuneration in the City.”

As we know, although bankers played a major role in bringing the system to its knees, in the immediate aftermath of the crash no banker was charged with any offence, in spite of their reckless behaviour. Many people in the country, in my constituency and elsewhere—perhaps in yours, Mrs Cummins—thought that at least some of them should have served time at Her Majesty’s pleasure.

It was the European Union that eventually instituted control of bankers’ bonuses. The EU said that no banker should receive a bonus of more than 100% of their salary—though where that figure came from I do not know—or 200% if shareholders had voted in agreement. It is that cap that the Government appear to now be intent on removing.

I want to use this short debate to ask three questions. First, how much is remuneration for bankers now, 14 years after the crash? Secondly, who is suggesting that the bankers’ cap be removed and why? Thirdly, how do we justify an ethos of greed as a determining factor guiding so many decision makers in a strategically important sector of the British economy?

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[Jon Trickett]

My hon. Friend has caught my next point. In the interest of social justice, the country feels that a 2% cap on the salaries of public sector employees and the lifting of the cap on already over-remunerated bankers is the wrong way for the Government to go. I agree with the statement made last week by the former deputy governor of the Bank of England, who my hon. Friend has just referred to. He said:

“The British government should raid the banks for tens of billions of pounds to fill a black hole in the public finances”.

He argued that the combination of rising interest rates and the money printed as part of quantitative easing has handed banks windfall profits. Those profits are going towards increased bonuses, which is totally unacceptable. Surely the banks and the financial sector should work for the common good, rather than for the private interests of a handful of very wealthy people. I will now make way for the Minister, and I look forward to him attempting to defend the indefensible.

[Judith Cummins (in the Chair)]

Just so Members are aware, the debate will finish by 4.40 pm.

Oral Answers to Questions

Judith Cummins Excerpts

Tuesday 11th October 2022 Commons Chamber

[Dan Jarvis (Barnsley Central) (Lab)]

12. What fiscal steps his Department is taking to fund the Government’s levelling-up agenda in the north of England.

[Judith Cummins (Bradford South) (Lab)]

17. What fiscal steps his Department is taking to support levelling up.

[The Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury (Felicity Buchan)]

It is a pleasure to answer my first question at the Dispatch Box, and to reply to the hon. Member for Barnsley Central (Dan Jarvis), who responded to my maiden speech.

The White Paper “Levelling Up the United Kingdom” set out a clear plan to level up every corner of the UK by 2030. We are also driving growth and unlocking housing across the UK with our new investment zones, and we are continuing to invest billions in regional infrastructure. That includes £1.7 billion allocated under the levelling-up fund, of which £500 million went to the north.

[Felicity Buchan]

We are absolutely committed to the levelling-up agenda. South Yorkshire received £570 million through the regional cities transport scheme, £95 million through the levelling-up fund and £46 million through the shared prosperity fund, and our ambitions for levelling up continue.

[Judith Cummins]

Building on Bradford’s city of culture win and in a momentous year for Rugby League, I am supporting the plan for the transformation and regeneration of the home of the Bradford Bulls, the iconic Odsal stadium, to become a world-class sports, music and culture arena. This plan would be an incubator for the ambitions of the entire Bradford district, delivering more than £1 billion of socioeconomic benefits. Following the Bank of England’s repeated interventions, can the Minister confirm that round 2 of the levelling-up fund will still be going ahead in full, and will she and the Chancellor demonstrate that by meeting me, Bradford Council, the Bradford Bulls and the Rugby Football League to discuss our catalyst for growth?

[Felicity Buchan]

I can confirm that we will be going ahead with the second round of the levelling-up fund. There should be decisions by the end of the year, and I wish the hon. Lady well with her bid. An independent assessment of the bids is going on at the moment, but if that meeting is possible, we will do it. Clearly we would need to decide if that was appropriate. I congratulate her on her success in the first round of the levelling-up bids, where she got £20 million for the Squire Lane leisure centre.

Government Response to Covid-19: Public Inquiry

Judith Cummins Excerpts

Thursday 22nd July 2021 Commons Chamber

[Jack Dromey]

The hon. Member makes a good point that a sensible debate can and should take place on how the inquiry can commence immediately and then be conducted in stages. Surely the first priority is learning lessons from what has gone wrong in order to avoid that in the future and to avoid us seeing yet more people die needlessly. That approach is sensible. Exactly how the public inquiry is conducted should form part of the debate.

Over the past year, the country has experienced tragedy and human suffering on a scale not seen since the second world war. No one could have imagined that 130,000 lives would be lost to this terrible virus, which has turned whole lives upside down as family and friends mourn the loss of loved ones. That is why this debate matters and why a public inquiry is so important. All Members across the House will have heard heartbreaking stories from their constituents over the past 18 months, like from Jane, who quite simply says, “I want to know why my dad and sister died. What were the mistakes that were made?”. She always asks, “How can we ensure that no one else in future suffers the loss that I have suffered?”. It is therefore vital that the covid-19 public inquiry has the confidence of the bereaved families, such as Jane.

The Committee’s report is a vital contribution to ensuring that the Government get the process right. In the time since the report was published, the Government have announced that a public inquiry will take place. However, that should not be a reason to be relaxed, because I am afraid that the Government’s approach to the inquiry thus far falls far short of what the Committee recommends should be expected. As a consequence, the Government risk the trust and confidence of the bereaved families if they do not place them at the heart of the process going forward, about which I will say more later.

I wish to focus on three key areas highlighted by the report in which, frankly, the Government’s approach is lacking: first, the timetable for the inquiry to begin; secondly, the selection of the chair and the terms of reference; and thirdly, the implementation of the inquiry’s recommendations. On the first point, the Government have set a timetable for the inquiry to commence in the spring of next year. That is simply too far away. Everyone understands the challenges that the country had to face during the first wave, but the Government’s failure to learn the lessons of the first wave has already left us with an even more tragic second wave during last winter, with too many lost lives and our stretched economy under even more strain. Then, this spring, we have had the debacle of the borders policy, with the delta variant sweeping through the country and a third wave developing and cases now rocketing.

It is therefore critical that we learn the lessons that need to be learned now. The Government cannot kick the can down the road to next spring. I stress again that we need to go forward to the next stages. We know that the Government have conducted internal lessons learned reviews. What are these reviews? Why will they not publish them? What is there to hide? The Committee recommends that such in-house assessments by Government Departments should be handed to the relevant Select Committees and the summaries also made public, and that has got to be right. Surely, on a matter so important to the future preparedness of the nation to rise to the challenge of coronavirus, the Government should publish these reviews now.

I now turn to the selection of the chair and the terms of reference of the inquiry. Paragraph 24 of the Committee’s report is clear that the setting up of the inquiry’s secretariat and administrative functions must begin “immediately” as

“delaying the set-up will inevitably delay the inquiry’s ability to start work in earnest”.

The Committee is absolutely right. I completely agree, and we have been clear, that the work must commence now and that it must be transparent and in consultation with the bereaved families. Just how long do the Government expect the families to wait for this process to begin? Other family members have said to me, “Jack, justice delayed is justice denied. We, the bereaved families, deserve better than this.”

I understand why the Government do not wish to redirect officials and frontline staff on a wholesale basis from the work of combating the pandemic, but surely the consultation with the bereaved families and other stakeholders on the selection of the inquiry chair, its secretariat and terms of reference can and should begin now. The Committee highlights that consultation with the bereaved families could make a “significant contribution” to the inquiry. I absolutely agree. The House will therefore want to hear from the Minister how much progress has been made on consulting the bereaved families on these matters.

Yesterday, dozens of members of the Covid-19 Bereaved Families for Justice campaign came to London. It was heartbreaking to walk down row upon row of photographs of loved ones who had died. They wanted to bring home the impact on them, the relatives and the bereaved, but they also wanted to know, in telling their often heartbreaking stories, why no one was talking to them. One mother whose grandmother had died said, “Why is it that they are not talking to us?” She wanted to know why the Government had not contacted relatives’ organisations, particularly the Covid-19 Bereaved Families for Justice campaign, to start to engage in a dialogue going forward at the next stages. It is inexplicable and absolutely unacceptable.

I share the concern of the relatives over the foot-dragging by Ministers who have avoided repeated requests to meet the bereaved families and hear their concerns. I can give an example that I have been engaged in personally. Before resigning, the former Health Secretary was good enough to agree at the Dispatch Box last December to meet families from Birmingham, yet not once did he or his office contact them or me to make the arrangements, despite numerous phone calls and emails from us. Not once. He had lifted the expectations of dozens of relatives that they would at last be involved in dialogue and consultation, but the door was shut in their face. I hope the Minister can now give a clear assurance that the bereaved families will be consulted on the chair and the terms of reference.

Finally, there is the question of implementing the inquiry’s recommendations. The hon. Member for Thurrock, in a powerful contribution, mentioned Bishop Jones, the Hillsborough inquiry and the mistakes that were made before fully exposing the truth of what happened. That point was well made. We cannot let this be a public inquiry whose recommendations are quietly shelved or swept under the carpet. The national trauma that the country has endured over the past year demands more. Despite the crisis last year, this country has achieved great things, but a decade of austerity weakened the foundations of our country and undermined our national defences against the pandemic.

We cannot simply go back to business as usual when the pandemic subsides. Lessons must be learned. The Government should therefore make a clear commitment both to set up the inquiry and to engage with it. It is only by beginning the inquiry that we can learn those serious lessons to avoid future tragedies. Without that, we cannot build a better future for our country, built on the strength and resilience we tapped into to get through the hardest of times. Only then can we be ready for whatever challenges come next.

In closing, I refer once again to those who should be at the heart of the covid-19 public inquiry: those who died and their families. On both sides of the House, right hon. and hon. Members have been meeting bereaved families over the past year. Those meetings have been some of the most difficult and emotional I have ever been involved in. The families simply want to know why their loved ones died, when many of them should not have. They want the right lessons to be learned so that no one else has to suffer the loss they have suffered. That is a noble aim, and it is one that the Government must rise to in setting up the public inquiry. We owe nothing less to the bereaved families.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Judith Cummins)]

I call Penny Mordaunt.

--- Later in debate ---

[Jackie Doyle-Price]

I thank everyone who has contributed to this debate. There is a great degree of consensus: we all want this inquiry to be very much focused on learning lessons. I guess the real issue of contention is timing, more than anything else. That reflects the tension between doing the job properly and thoroughly, and potentially making timely reflections so that we can act quickly. I want to associate myself with the comments made by my hon. Friend the Member for Harwich and North Essex (Sir Bernard Jenkin). We need to focus on the outcome of the inquiry to get it right, and that outcome must be confidence—confidence from the public that we have learned those lessons and confidence across the system that we have taken steps to ensure that we deal with such issues more effectively in future. In that regard, I welcome the tone with which my right hon. Friend the Minister addressed the issues we considered today. I hope that that reflects how the Government take this issue forward.

It will take time for the inquiry to get up and running, so the sooner we can get on with making the appointments and setting the approach the better. It will be some considerable time before the inquiry starts to impact on those parts of the Government that are dealing with the pandemic now. I hope that we will be able to reflect on that again in due course.

Question put and agreed to.

Resolved,

That this House notes the Fifth Report of the Public Administration and Constitutional Affairs Committee of Session 2019-21, A Public Inquiry into the Government’s response to the Covid-19 pandemic, HC 541; and calls on the Government to provide an updated response to that set out in the Committee’s Fourth Special Report of Session 2019-21, A Public Inquiry into the Government’s response to the Covid-19 pandemic: Government’s response to the Committee’s Fifth Report, HC 995, setting out how the Government intends to implement the Committee’s recommendations, to ensure that the administrative arrangements necessary to set up the public inquiry committed to by the Prime Minister to the House on 11 May 2021, in particular the appointment of an inquiry chair, take place in a timely manner and no later than the end of this year, and to agree: that the Government’s preferred candidate to chair the inquiry should be subject to a pre-appointment hearing by the relevant select committee for the sponsoring Government department.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Judith Cummins)]

I shall now suspend the House to enable the necessary arrangements for the next business to be made.