Northern Ireland Troubles Bill (Carry-over)

Judith Cummins Excerpts

Carry-over motion
Monday 27th April 2026 Commons Chamber

[Hilary Benn]

I will conclude my remarks, because many Members want to contribute.

I am acutely aware of the stress that many have described in going through legacy processes, which is precisely why we will put the strongest possible safeguards in the Bill. If this motion is carried, the Bill will be brought back to the House early in the new Session for a Committee of the whole House, where I will welcome the scrutiny of all Members to ensure that we get this right. This Bill is about creating a legacy process in which all involved can have confidence. I hope that we can work together constructively and with the care that the families of all those who were killed or seriously injured deserve, to ensure that this legislation and the further amendments that we will make are given careful consideration in Committee.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Judith Cummins)]

I call the shadow Secretary of State.

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[Mr Bailey]

I thank the Minister for giving way. We are having this debate because in hindsight the military forces deployed in Northern Ireland were not provided with adequate protection. If the hon. Gentleman genuinely cared about veterans and the protection of members of the forces in future, he would have submitted amendments to the Armed Forces Bill to prevent a recurrence. Can he make us aware of any such amendments?

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Judith Cummins)]

Order. I gently remind Members that interventions should be short and to the point.

[Alex Burghart]

I strongly encourage the hon. Gentleman to take time to read the Armed Forces Bill amendment paper. The two gentlemen sitting either side of me, my right hon. Friend the Member for Rayleigh and Wickford (Mr Francois) and my hon. Friend the Member for South Suffolk (James Cartlidge), have tabled very many amendments. I encourage the hon. Gentleman to go out this evening and to try to find one veterans organisation that supports what his party is trying to do with this Bill.

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[Madam Deputy Speaker (Judith Cummins)]

Order. The House will be aware that Mr Speaker has granted a limited waiver in this case to allow limited reference to active legal proceedings relating to historic troubles-related deaths. I remind Members that references to those cases should be limited to the context and the events that led to those cases, but should not refer to the details of the cases or to the names of those involved in them.

I will start by imposing a four-minute limit on Back-Bench speeches, as I will be calling the Secretary of State no later than 9.46 pm.

[Mr Bayo Alaba (Southend East and Rochford) (Lab)]

This debate is deeply personal for me, because, in addition to being the Member for Southend East and Rochford, I am a proud former paratrooper.

For me and countless others with military backgrounds like my own, the legacy of the troubles is not a distant memory but something that our community continues to carry the weight of. Back in November, I brought members of the Parachute Regimental Association, together with officials from the Northern Ireland Office and the Ministry of Defence. I had one simple aim: to ensure that veterans had a voice and their concerns about the Bill were heard clearly and directly. I thank those officials for their attendance and engagement.

Let me be clear: the legislation passed by the Conservative Government must be updated. This is not myth or fallacy; indeed, even some Conservative Members have acknowledged that the current legislation is inadequate. It troubles me when colleagues from this House head over to Parliament Square, as they did this afternoon, not to engage with former colleagues or members of their local military associations, but to “virtue signal”, as my teenage daughter would put it. Our duty as parliamentarians is to lead, make difficult decisions and speak with honesty and sincerity. It is not to spew negative and dangerous rhetoric, as some across this Chamber seem intent on doing. They parade around with lapel badges larger than some solar panels and bearing the slogan, “Proud of my country, ashamed of this government.” That does not help or resolve this issue, and it is certainly not why the public voted us into this special place. It is dangerous and unproductive noise.

However, I must be equally clear that, as it stands, the Bill leaves many questions unanswered and needs additional work. We cannot afford to rush it. Although justice must be delivered, we must also take the time to ensure that the legislation delivers the protections that our veterans need and deserve. Those who served in Northern Ireland followed orders and put their lives on the line to defend our country, and they cannot be an afterthought in this process. So I say to the Government that we should take the time to get this right, to continue our engagement, to listen to those who serve and the families who lost loved ones, and to ensure that before the Bill moves to its next stage veterans can have full confidence that it will deliver what is intended without creating serious unintended consequences that cannot be later undone.

In conclusion, I say that, to every member of our armed forces community who has served and those who continue to serve, we owe a debt that cannot be repaid. And to those watching from the Gallery today, I say thank you: thank you for standing up for the memory of those we have lost and for standing together to protect those who are yet to serve.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Judith Cummins)]

I call the Liberal Democrats spokesperson.

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[Several hon. Members rose—]

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Judith Cummins)]

Order. I call David Davis, after whom there will be a three-minute time limit.

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[David Davis]

No, but it is simply the rule that in Northern Ireland, it is easier to get legal aid for these issues. I can see that there was a reason for that in the past, but it has, in effect, perverted the course of justice in a case where soldiers did nothing more than their duty. That is what is going to happen under this Bill, too, because the case went on to appeal. If anything, the judge struck down that appeal in even more robust terms than the previous judge. A brave, patriotic, honourable soldier was dragged through three courts over several years, in gratuitous actions that were funded by the taxpayer.

I say “brave”, “honourable” and “patriotic”; these are not casual words. I have known Soldier B for 30 years. As well as being a brave soldier, he is a firm believer in the rule of law. He does not believe that there should be exemptions. He believes that there should be proper rule of law, which is not provided by the Bill. Indeed, given his history and his views, I would say that he has a better claim to have defended justice in our country than anyone in the House, and certainly than those on the Government Front Bench. What happened in that case is just a rehearsal for what will come if the Bill goes through. If it is passed, hundreds more—and I mean hundreds—will follow.

This Bill puts the interests of the Irish Government, Sinn Féin and IRA apologists above those of our veterans, and would put rewriting history ahead of providing proper justice. It is unpatriotic, disingenuous and dishonourable. It satisfies no one. It solves nothing. Everything it touches, it makes worse. I note that the Minister for the Armed Forces is not here for the vote, and I entirely understand why: he wants to avoid association with this disgraceful legislation. If he cannot vote for it, neither should we. We should reject this disgraceful Bill out of hand.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Judith Cummins)]

I call Andy McDonald, who has a three-minute speaking time limit.

Northern Ireland Troubles: Legacy and Reconciliation

Judith Cummins Excerpts

Wednesday 21st January 2026 Commons Chamber

[Andy McDonald]

I thank the hon. Member for that intervention. There is an obligation on the Government under section 4 of the Human Rights Act: where they have been told by a court that legislation is incompatible with a convention right, they are duty-bound to remove that incompatibility. That is exactly what is being done here. [Interruption.] The hon. Member chunters from a sedentary position, but that is the legal position.

The remedial order is a positive correction, but it is only a first step. Justice delayed has already cost families decades. Justice diluted will cost confidence altogether. If we want reconciliation rooted in truth, the law must apply equally to all, and independent investigations must be fully restored.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Judith Cummins)]

I call the Liberal Democrat spokesperson.

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[Mr Kohler]

No. Now it is just grandstanding, and I will not give in to more of that.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Judith Cummins)]

Order. Please sit down, Mr Kohler. The temperature needs to be lowered to allow the hon. Gentleman to deliver his remarks.

[Mr Kohler]

If we are serious about moving towards a shared and stable future for Northern Ireland, legacy processes must be connected to a broader reconciliation strategy. That is why we propose a statutory duty on the Secretary of State to publish such a strategy, developed in consultation with victims, institutions and Parliament. Addressing the past and building the future must go hand in hand.

Finally, a word about the European convention on human rights. The remedial order arises precisely because ECHR compliance matters. The Good Friday agreement is built on it and, as such, peace in Northern Ireland depends on it. Those who casually call for withdrawal are playing fast and loose with our history, our rights, our futures and our very Union. We will support this remedial order, oppose those who would block it for self-serving reasons and continue to work constructively with Members from across the House to fashion an appropriate legacy process.

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[Several hon. Members rose—]

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Judith Cummins)]

Order. Members will have seen the interest in the debate shown by the number of Members on their feet and will be aware of the short time available. I do not want to bring in a time limit at this moment, but I ask Members to keep their comments as brief as possible in order to help each other out.

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[Several hon. Members rose—]

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Judith Cummins)]

Order. Members may wish to know that I will shortly bring in a three-minute time limit. Without a time limit, I call Gavin Robinson.

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[Several hon. Members rose—]

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Judith Cummins)]

Order. If Members limit their interventions, we can start with a four-minute time limit.

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[Gavin Robinson]

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. I mentioned this briefly in my opening remarks, but I place on record my appreciation for the agreement that this evening’s motion could be extended for double-time. Having praised the usual channels, the Government and Opposition Chief Whips and the Leader of the House, may I also pay tribute to you, Madam Deputy Speaker? Thank you for trying to ensure that everyone was accommodated. [Hon. Members: “Hear, hear.”] It is appreciated. As the Secretary of State knows, I do not appreciate the outcome, but I do appreciate that all Members were included.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Judith Cummins)]

While that is not a point of order, it is very much appreciated and it is on the record.

Northern Ireland Troubles: Legacy and Reconciliation

Judith Cummins Excerpts

Wednesday 17th December 2025 Commons Chamber

[Dr Al Pinkerton (Surrey Heath) (LD)]

The introduction of a remedial order is welcome and necessary, even if its timing is potentially vexed. The order promises to finally end the policy of conditional immunity that was integral to the 2023 legacy Act—a policy that may have had benign intentions, but that put us at odds with our international legal obligations and regrettably drew a moral equivalence between UK service personnel and terrorist paramilitaries. I note that the second report of the Joint Committee on Human Rights, published last week, recommended the order’s approval. However, I note also the Committee’s concern regarding the unusual sequencing and timing of the remedial order, in relation to the forthcoming primary legislation.

Given the overtly political processes that led to the 2023 Act, I suggest there is an additional responsibility on the Government to ensure that this process is handled properly and that the process, as much as the policy, is seen to be fair-handed. There is broad recognition of the need to repeal and replace the 2023 legacy Act, but we also need to acknowledge that the removal of conditional immunity has created real anxiety, particularly among veterans groups, who fear the risk of prosecution.

I particularly welcome the Secretary of State’s letter, circulated yesterday, at annexe A. If I may, I will ask the Secretary of State three things. First of all, to clarify—

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

Order. You had exactly one minute and you have gone over. My apologies—I call the Secretary of State.

[Hilary Benn]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for what he says and for his support for what we are seeking to do in the remedial order. I acknowledge the responsibility that the Government have. These are quite unusual circumstances. The reason why we are debating this matter is because the Joint Committee on Human Rights has acknowledged the unusual circumstances and, despite having made other comments in its report, which we will all have read, has come to the conclusion that it gives its approval to the order and recommends that the House support it. I welcome what the Joint Committee on Human Rights has said.

I will point out one other thing. I acknowledge that the Government did take a bit of time between the report on 28 February and producing the revised draft remedial order on 14 October. That was because we listened to the representations that had been made, particularly by the Opposition, on the subject of interim custody orders in respect of sections 46 and 47, and in relation to the Supreme Court judgment in 2020. After reflecting on that, we found what we think is an alternative way of achieving the same objective, which is to be found in clauses 89 and 90 of the Northern Ireland Troubles Bill, which is currently before the House.

I simply point out that the previous Government tried for two and a half years to find a way of dealing with the Supreme Court judgment in the Adams case and were not able to do so, and eventually accepted the amendments moved in the other place, which became sections 46 and 47. It was acknowledging the arguments that had been made that led the Government to amend the remedial order, which we then put before the House on 14 October.

Northern Ireland Troubles

Judith Cummins Excerpts

Tuesday 14th October 2025 Commons Chamber

[Stuart Anderson (South Shropshire) (Con)]

I am against the repealing of the legacy Act, and I served in Northern Ireland. As I am now doing in opposition, I raised when we were in government the major concern and dishonour when none of those on the Labour Benches had the decency to come to this House and debate all the points the Minister is making now. They let the legislation go through, but it is recorded in Hansard that very few people bothered to come to the Chamber to debate it when we took it through the House.

I want to make two quick points on the support for veterans. First, you have spoken about the process they will have to go through; I want to know what support will be available, as you have mentioned. Secondly, given that the terrorists did not keep records but the British Army did, how will you ensure fairer disclosure throughout the process?

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Judith Cummins)]

Order. I remind Members not to refer to “you”, as that means me.

[Hilary Benn]

I am grateful to the hon. Member for his point. Support is available for veterans through the Ministry of Defence, and the Armed Forces Minister is very committed to making sure that veterans get all the support they need, which is in part reflected in the package we have announced.

On disclosure, we are making a number of changes, including amending the definition of “sensitive information” so that it is not designated by virtue of the body that held it. That is one of the reasons why the courts found that the disclosure arrangements were not compatible with our commitments. The Secretary of State will have to conduct a balancing exercise on what should be disclosed; the Secretary of State will be required to give reasons for any decision not to disclose, to the extent that that does not risk harm to national security; and, of course, any decision that the Secretary of State makes can be subject to judicial review.

European Union (Withdrawal Arrangements) Bill

Judith Cummins Excerpts

2nd reading
Friday 6th December 2024 Commons Chamber

[Ms Creasy]

I thank the hon. and learned Gentleman for giving way. I hope he will recognise that it is not laughter on the Government Benches, but bemusement at the inconsistency. He opines about his anger that a third party can make law in Northern Ireland. Many of us tried to untangle the inconsistencies in the Rwanda legislation. The right hon. Member for Belfast East (Gavin Robinson) and I tried in vain to raise it with the previous Government. The critical issue was the right to remedy and the rights it gave people in Northern Ireland to petition a third party if they thought their Government was overbearing on their own basic rights. The hon. and learned Gentleman has himself used those rights: he has chosen to go to the Supreme Court and that is why we are here today. He has not chosen to go to the Court in Strasbourg—that would be his right and I would support him in doing so—but why would he deny the right to remedy to the rest of his fellow residents of Northern Ireland, as the Bill would, when he says he thinks it was wrong for that right to be protected by the European Court of Human Rights in the first place?

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Judith Cummins)]

Order. I remind Members that it is up to the Member who is on their feet whether they want to accept an intervention.

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[Deirdre Costigan]

We disagree on that point, but I reiterate that I have read the Good Friday agreement from cover to cover.

The introduction of a cross-community requirement would only place enormous burdens on the Assembly, which has already struggled to function effectively in recent years. Adding another layer of complexity to the Assembly’s decision-making process risks further entrenching the situation, making it even harder to deliver for the people of Northern Ireland.

We must also consider the message that the provision sends to the people of Northern Ireland. By imposing additional barriers to democratic decision making, the Bill risks fostering a sense of disenfranchisement and disillusionment among the electorate. How can we expect the people of Northern Ireland to place their faith in the Windsor framework if institutions are being deliberately hamstrung by measures designed to perpetuate stagnation rather than to promote co-operation on this vital issue? The Windsor framework was carefully designed to strike a balance between competing interests. This Bill, by contrast, undermines that delicate balance, replacing pragmatic solutions with political posturing that serves no one.

There is an absence in the Bill of a clearly articulated framework to replace the existing regulatory mechanisms established by the framework. Under the current system, Northern Ireland operates within a dual regulatory sphere, giving it unique access, as I said. That arrangement, while complex, has provided a measure of certainty for businesses. They know which rules apply, how to comply with them and the benefits of adherence. The Bill removes critical aspects of the existing framework. That would create a vacuum, leaving businesses and regulators alike with more questions than answers, and the resulting uncertainty would of course threaten Northern Ireland’s prosperity.

That is before I get on to the fact that there is no clear timeline for the implementation of the Bill. It provides no road map, no phased implementation plan and no transitional support for affected parties. The Bill would therefore only create a chaotic environment in which businesses must prepare for the unknown, potentially leading to disruption, delays and financial losses. For small and medium-sized businesses that lack the resources to navigate complex regulatory shifts, the consequences would be devastating.

The regulatory uncertainty created by the Bill is not a minor oversight; it is a fundamental flaw that undermines its viability. Far from being a technical adjustment, the Bill is a destabilising force. At its core, it flagrantly disregards the principles of international law and the commitments that the United Kingdom solemnly made under the Windsor agreement. But perhaps the most frustrating aspect is that the Bill represents a colossal missed opportunity. Northern Ireland is uniquely positioned to thrive as a bridge between the UK and the EU, leveraging its dual market access to attract investment and drive growth. The Windsor framework, while not perfect, is a pragmatic solution that provides the stability and predictability necessary for that unique position.

Instead of building on that foundation, the Bill tries to tear it down, replacing a functioning system with chaos and division. It prioritises short-term calculations over long-term economic and social stability. Northern Ireland deserves better than this. Its people, businesses and institutions deserve a Government who legislate responsibly, with foresight and care, rather than rushing forward with reckless and ill-conceived measures.

This House has a duty to legislate responsibly, to weigh the long-term consequences of our actions, and to uphold the principles that underpin our democracy and our international commitments. This Bill fails on all counts. It is not simply flawed; it is fundamentally unfit for purpose.

I urge colleagues to reject this legislation and demand a more thoughtful, inclusive and workable approach to addressing the challenges facing Northern Ireland. Let us act not out of political expediency but out of genuine commitment to the people, businesses and institutions that rely on us to get this right.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Judith Cummins)]

I call the shadow Minister.