NHS Wholly Owned Subsidiary Companies

Judith Cummins Excerpts

Tuesday 6th March 2018 Westminster Hall

[Liz Twist]

The hon. Gentleman makes an excellent point. NHS staff, whatever their job, are all part of a team that delivers a service, and they all work together. For example, the catering and cleaning staff who looked after my mum’s hospital ward when she was in hospital recently were also a part of the NHS caring process. I think that is a really important point.

[Judith Cummins (Bradford South) (Lab)]

One of the major problems with the creation of these wholly owned companies is that they lead to a two-tier workforce in which often the lowest paid staff, such as domestics and security guards, are on worse terms and conditions than other staff. Does my hon. Friend agree that that represents a race to the bottom and is not just bad for those moved over to the new companies but bad for the NHS overall?

[Liz Twist]

I most certainly do agree, and I will expand on that point shortly.

I want to speak about the impact on staff—some of the same staff we have all been praising in recent days for turning up to work in the snow and coping when we have the only too frequent crises. They are an integral part of the NHS team, as the hon. Member for Central Suffolk and North Ipswich (Dr Poulter) said, making it possible for nursing and medical staff and other allied health professionals to do their bit in caring for patients.

On transfer to a wholly owned subsidiary company, staff already employed by the trust will be transferred on their existing terms and conditions. That is, on “Agenda for Change” terms and conditions and pay rates, negotiated nationally and checked to ensure equal pay for work of equal value. They will retain their membership of the NHS pension scheme and a set of decent terms and conditions applying to all NHS staff. The main way that trusts can make savings through these companies is by employing new staff on different, and worse, terms and conditions.

--- Later in debate ---

[Stephen Barclay]

I will happily give way to the hon. Lady in due course.

That is not about exploitation; it is about empowering members of staff. They get higher pay in the short term in return for a less generous pension. The hon. Member for Stockton North might disagree—

[Judith Cummins]

Will the Minister give way?

[Stephen Barclay]

I signalled that I will give way to the hon. Member for Blaydon. She called the debate, so she should go first.

It is not accurate to say that this is simply about exploiting people if their base salary is increasing from £19,000 to £25,000, as it is in that trust. One can look at the wider bundled package of benefits and total remuneration, but one cannot describe a salary increase of £6,000 as exploitation.

[Stephen Barclay]

The hon. Lady is ignoring the fact that that already happens in the NHS, for existing trust staff: some staff opt out of the NHS pension, and not all the staff who TUPE-ed across in this arrangement were in the NHS pension. Once again, those on the Labour Benches want to deny the choice and options that apply to NHS staff.

[Judith Cummins]

I thank the Minister for giving way, because he has heard me twice now, but I welcome the opportunity. Does he not agree that the difference between then and now is that NHS trusts now are being forced down the path of wholly owned subsidiary companies because of financial constraints? It is not good enough for the Government simply to stand by and watch that happen.

[Stephen Barclay]

Again, that is a complete misrepresentation. The trust itself has pointed to the benefits of the arrangement. Let me give a concrete example of how the arrangement is delivering to the trust savings in the interests of patients.

Under the previous delivery system, local pathology samples were sometimes lost and delayed—that is not in the interests of patients. The QEF brought in a revised system of procuring all sample containers and issuing those to GPs across the region before delivering samples to the hospital pathology laboratory hubs within four hours. The trust forecasts that that will deliver significant benefits—indeed, other trusts are interested in the services. By operating on a more commercial model, therefore, not only has the trust improved how it deals with samples and prevented those samples from being lost as in the past, but it has put in place a system that is better for patients and attractive to GPs in other trusts who now want to contract the services.