Draft Postal Packets (Miscellaneous Amendments) Regulations 2023

Jonathan Gullis Excerpts

Monday 17th July 2023 General Committees

[Victoria Atkins]

I will certainly answer the first of the points the hon. Gentleman made in his intervention—I was not able to catch them all, so I very much hope that he will be able to speak in due course. I will absolutely undertake to write to him if I am not able to deal with them in my speech.

I am told that about 5% of GB to NI parcel movements —please forgive the acronyms—are to Northern Ireland businesses. Within that 5%, the level of checks will be minimal, because we are applying this risk-based and intelligence-led approach to checks. We have not put a percentage on it, other than that it would be within that 5%, but we expect this to be minimal, because the very thing we want to encourage is trade between a thriving GB economy and a thriving Northern Irish economy.

In relation to the green lane and whether only a few businesses will be able to benefit, the answer is no. We expect the use of the green lane to be widespread. We are working to ensure that businesses in Northern Ireland and Great Britain know how to be eligible. Indeed, if there are any observations that the hon. Gentleman and others have as to the challenges that businesses face, or representations that they would like to make, will they please continue to work with us? We genuinely want to make this work for people and businesses—of course we do. As I said, I hope that the hon. Gentleman will be able to continue his speech in due course.

To return to my own speech, I was trying to set out the requirements on businesses and, importantly, the lack of requirements on individuals, families, friends and so on. Movements via the red lane, including those goods destined for the EU, will be subject to the customs processes required by the EU, as I hope colleagues will understand.The Prime Minister negotiated the Windsor framework to ensure that consumers and businesses in Northern Ireland—and, indeed, British businesses selling into Northern Ireland—could benefit by protecting internal trade within the UK.

[Jonathan Gullis (Stoke-on-Trent North) (Con)]

I have a concern when it comes to the integrity of our United Kingdom, because the final sentence of paragraph 7.6 on page 3 of the explanatory memorandum states:

“This means that prior to this instrument coming into force, postal packets moving within the UK cannot be searched, seized or intercepted by HMRC or Border Force.”

This instrument will therefore change the internal integrity of our United Kingdom and is a huge giveaway of our country’s sovereignty.

[Victoria Atkins]

I am really pleased that my hon. Friend has brought that up, because it touches on the timing point that colleagues have raised. Understandably, colleagues have asked, “Why is this happening now? Why can’t it wait until October next year?” Of course, the Windsor framework arrangements will come into force in October next year, but there is a limited range of prohibited or restricted goods that are supposed to comply with EU customs rules today—for example, hazardous chemicals and chemicals that can deplete the ozone, and blood diamonds have also been mentioned to me. We do not have those powers at the moment, so we need to fill the gap as quickly as we can, so that in respect of those goods—

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[Sammy Wilson]

They do. Even the explanatory notes make it quite clear that this will be subject to the EU still abiding by article 7 of the protocol. If the EU decides to say, “Look, article 7 isn’t working”—for whatever reason, maybe people are bypassing it—they can change it, and we do not have any say at that stage. We have handed control over the movement of goods from GB to Northern Ireland to a foreign entity.

[Jonathan Gullis]

Will the hon. Member give way?

[The Chair]

Order. I remind colleagues that we have six minutes left, and I am sure they want to hear the response of the Minister and shadow Minister. No? Okay, the hon. Member for Rochford and Southend East does not want to speak now. Shadow Minister—

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[Sammy Wilson]

I was just giving way, Mr Pritchard, and then once I have, I will sit down.

[Jonathan Gullis]

The right hon. Gentleman was outlining the fact that this will be subject to EU regulations—article 7 of the protocol. Would the celebrated brake in the Windsor framework be able to be applied to the legislation, in his understanding?

[Sammy Wilson]

No, it would not, because the brake itself is totally ineffective. We have already had a huge debate on that in the past. With that, I will sit down, as I understand that there are people who wish to speak.