Oral Answers to Questions

Jonathan Evans Excerpts

Wednesday 29th February 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Jones]

I would certainly say that it was a hash at its inception, because the scheme that the Government of which the right hon. Gentleman was a member put in place was poorly designed and lacked the flexibility to respond to changes in the cost of installing PV and in the price of electricity. The measures that the Government are now putting in place in response to the recent consultation will provide consumers with a proper rate of return, of the sort that was originally envisaged.

[Jonathan Evans (Cardiff North) (Con)]

Does my hon. Friend agree that the important thing is that there is a fair, not an excessive, return? As a result of that, Italy, France and, in the past week, Germany have significantly changed the tariffs, as the Government have endeavoured to do in the UK.

[Mr Jones]

Yes, of course, and that underlines the fact that the scheme was poorly designed from the start. The Government’s proposals will provide a fair rate of return for investors.

Oral Answers to Questions

Jonathan Evans Excerpts

Wednesday 23rd November 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Jones]

Of course youth unemployment is too high and of course, sadly, that is not a new phenomenon. In the last Parliament, youth unemployment in Wales increased by 73% and we have not heard a word of apology from the hon. Gentleman for that. We recognise the importance of the problem and that is why we have introduced the Work programme, which provides properly targeted support to young jobseekers.

[Jonathan Evans (Cardiff North) (Con)]

Is not export-led growth one route to addressing youth unemployment? In that regard, will my hon. Friend take this opportunity to congratulate private sector business in Wales, which since the last election has seen a 31% increase in Welsh exports—double the national average and the largest increase of any part of the United Kingdom?

[Mr Jones]

Yes. My hon. Friend is entirely right. The export figures for Wales were extremely encouraging, led particularly as they were by the engineering sector. In that connection, we must commend Airbus for the wonderful work it is doing in the north-east of Wales.

Commission on Devolution in Wales

Jonathan Evans Excerpts

Thursday 3rd November 2011 Commons Chamber

[Nia Griffith]

I hope very much indeed that that bilateral work is progressing quickly and effectively.

It is small wonder, given the Conservatives’ track record on devolution, that many Opposition Members have expressed suspicions about the Government’s motives for setting up the Silk commission. There are suspicions that the Government might be trying to sell Wales short and push through measures that would seriously disadvantage Wales. The concentration of wealth creation in London and south-east England means not only in Wales but in Scotland, Northern Ireland and the other regions of England that public expenditure is greater than the income from those areas, which are all net beneficiaries of the UK tax regime, while London and parts of the south-east and East Anglia are net contributors.

That is for historical reasons, including the early emergence of London as the commercial capital and its importance as a world financial centre, and it is in contrast to other European countries, where the importance of the city state and, much later, unification has produced different patterns of wealth distribution. The disparities have existed in the UK for many years: they are deeply embedded and cannot simply be eliminated by a few years of regional policy or European funding, helpful as that is to compensate for the differences. Nor can they simply be eliminated by substantial growth in the private sector, vital as that is to Wales and across the UK.

With such deep-seated historical differences in wealth distribution, complete financial independence for Wales, as advocated by Plaid Cymru, is an absolute non-starter. With a gap of £14.6 billion between public spending and the revenue raised in Wales, it would mean every man, woman and child in Wales contributing an extra £4,800—nearly £5,000 each a year just to maintain current levels of spending.

[Jonathan Evans]

The Labour party has been using those figures quite heavily today, and it has based them on the Holtham report, but that is misleading. The report indicates a gap of £6 billion. Will the hon. Lady correct that statement and the statements of the right hon. Member for Neath (Mr Hain)?

[Nia Griffith]

Those figures were recently provided by the House of Commons Library, on 2 November, and I am sure that it has checked them thoroughly.

We are suspicious about the Government’s motives in setting up the Silk commission, whose remit excludes fair funding. It looks as if the Government might be using it as a back door to cutting funding to Wales, or seeking to adopt measures that could leave Wales subject to fluctuations in funding that would be impossible to cope with. The Labour party will strongly resist any moves that would disadvantage Wales.

Many people have been puzzled by the timing of the debate, as the remit for the Silk commission has already been set, so it did not offer an opportunity to influence its terms of reference. Perhaps, when the commission has had a chance to study the issues, it may wish to seek views or raise questions in an interim report, and that would be a more appropriate time for a debate. Having the debate now, before the commission has even begun its work, but after the terms of reference have been decided, is somewhat bizarre. [Interruption.] I think that the Secretary of State is trying to intervene, but the point was well made by my right hon. Friend the Member for Torfaen that that does make us question the reason for the debate.

Oral Answers to Questions

Jonathan Evans Excerpts

Wednesday 11th May 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Jones]

We are certainly moving in that direction. Since taking office, we have introduced a rule that no Minister or official should travel first class. That has saved us nearly £92,000 and more than halved our rail costs this year. We have achieved 36% savings under a new Government contract for booking hotel accommodation, and we have halved the number of ministerial cars. From this month, we will no longer have the Jaguar in Wales that the Secretary of State’s predecessor ordered.

[Jonathan Evans (Cardiff North) (Con)]

5. What recent discussions she has had with ministerial colleagues and the Welsh Assembly Government on big society initiatives in Wales.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Wales (Mr David Jones)]

I have discussed a range of issues concerning the big society in Wales with the Minister for civil society, my hon. Friend the Member for Ruislip, Northwood and Pinner (Mr Hurd) and the Welsh Assembly Government Minister for social justice. I am due to have a further discussion concerning the big society bank with my hon. Friend next week.

[Jonathan Evans]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for that response. Will he share with us his anticipation of when the big society bank will be up and running in Wales?

[Mr Jones]

We are certainly moving in that direction. My hon. Friend the Minister with responsibility for civil society announced this week that the big society bank is being established; £200 million of moneys in that bank will be available on a wholesale basis for charities in Wales.

Oral Answers to Questions

Jonathan Evans Excerpts

Wednesday 16th March 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Jones]

As I said, I have held discussions with Carl Sargeant, who is the Minister responsible for such matters in the Welsh Assembly Government. We are taking that work forward. I am sure that the hon. Gentleman will be pleased to hear that the big society bank will be available for the whole of the United Kingdom. There is no reason why Welsh groups should not apply to it for funding.

[Jonathan Evans (Cardiff North) (Con)]

My hon. Friend will be aware that many people in Wales want to take advantage of the opportunities that the Government are offering, but that they may need mentoring. Will he appoint somebody in his Department, perhaps by seconding a civil servant, to assist people who have ideas to take forward the big society?

[Mr Jones]

All ideas are gratefully received. The Government will ensure that there is a network of big society facilitators throughout the country. As many as 5,000 will be appointed in due course.

Oral Answers to Questions

Jonathan Evans Excerpts

Wednesday 2nd February 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mrs Gillan]

I am happy to say that I have had sight of that report. I continuously worry about how we will build up our economy in Wales and restore our fortunes. Like her hon. Friend the Member for Ogmore (Huw Irranca-Davies), the hon. Lady is absolutely right to say that infrastructure is important, whether it be railway or roads infrastructure, or broadband. I would encourage her to make her representations directly on this matter. I hope that she has written to my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Transport and also to my office.

[Jonathan Evans (Cardiff North) (Con)]

My right hon. Friend is right to draw attention to the abysmal record of the outgoing Labour Government, but let me make it clear that we on the Government Benches are arguing just as passionately for electrification right through to Swansea, to see the Welsh economy rebalanced from the public sector and private sector jobs coming through. We cannot have money spent on high-speed rail without electrification in Wales.

[Mrs Gillan]

My hon. Friend knows that we plan to invest £14 billion over the next four years to fund maintenance and investment in our railways. Whatever we end up with when an announcement is made, he can rest assured that we have left no stone unturned in making the case for electrification into Wales.

Oral Answers to Questions

Jonathan Evans Excerpts

Wednesday 3rd November 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mr Jones]

The Welsh Conservatives’ proposal is, of course, that S4C should have a good, viable and vibrant future. It is for my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State to consider whether there should be an inquiry.

[Jonathan Evans (Cardiff North) (Con)]

11. What recent discussions she has had with the First Minister on proposals to decentralise powers to local communities.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Wales (Mr David Jones)]

My right hon. Friend has regular meetings with the First Minister on all issues affecting Wales. I will meet the Assembly Government’s Minister for Social Justice and Local Government tomorrow.

[Jonathan Evans]

As the people of Wales may shortly vote for additional powers to be devolved to Wales, and as the Government take forward their localism agenda, does my hon. Friend agree that it is essential that as many of those powers as possible are devolved down from the Assembly to local communities and councils?

[Mr Jones]

Yes, my hon. Friend is right to the extent that I find huge enthusiasm among stakeholders in Wales for the Government’s big society agenda, which seeks to devolve influence down to the lowest possible level. For that purpose, I will be having a meeting with the Minister for Social Justice and Local Government to discuss how the Welsh Assembly Government can participate in the process.

Welsh Grand Committee (Scrutiny)

Jonathan Evans Excerpts

Tuesday 2nd November 2010 Westminster Hall

[Alun Michael]

I am grateful for the opportunity to open the debate, and to the large number of Welsh Members, particularly Labour Members, for attending. They include colleagues from across the geography of Wales and from every level, from the oldest Members to the newest. Perhaps in one sense we should be grateful to the Secretary of State for her steadfast refusal to agree to hold a meeting of the Welsh Grand Committee to discuss the implications of the most serious constitutional change to threaten Wales for generations, because it has made us all the more conscious of the mechanisms that allow us to defend the interests of Wales and of the Welsh people in the House of Commons.

The subject of the debate is the Welsh Grand Committee and the scrutiny of Government policy as it applies to Wales. There is clearly a deficiency in how current legislation is debated. The failure to meet to discuss the current legislation goes beyond that individual topic and touches on how Welsh issues are dealt with generally in the House. Welsh Members have fought for proper representation over many years, and as the shadow Minister said in an excellent article in The Western Mail, the balancing of the interests of minorities with a national constitution is regarded as not just important, but essential in a number of other countries, such as Germany. There ought to be a balance that is not just about simple, crude arithmetic.

Representation of constituencies in Wales will be damaged by the provisions of the Parliamentary Voting System and Constituencies Bill. It is about not only the reduction in numbers, but the fact that the reduction can be achieved only by tearing up the principle of representing communities of interest in each part of Wales and the principle of respecting the links with local authority boundaries and, above all, by tearing apart the constituencies that are currently represented by both a Member of Parliament and a Member of the National Assembly for Wales. That cannot be right.

Even worse is the lack of proper debate as the Conservatives steamroller over the interests of the people of Wales and principles of democracy. The matter should have been debated in the Welsh Grand Committee before the Bill was debated on the Floor of the House, and I remind Members on both sides of the Chamber of the battles that took place to establish the Welsh Grand Committee in the first place as a venue for debates.

[Jonathan Evans (Cardiff North) (Con)]

On the right hon. Gentleman’s point about Assembly constituencies being the same as Westminster constituencies, it follows from that part of his proposition that he is arguing that there should never be any change at all.

[Alun Michael]

I am not arguing that at all. When the National Assembly for Wales was being proposed in opposition, I actually recommended a different structure, one that would have given two Members for each Westminster constituency, elected according to the alternative vote system. That would have given 60 Members on a coterminous basis, even with the considerable reductions that the Conservatives propose, but it is only one of the principles that need to be looked at. I have already mentioned the importance of representing combinations of constituencies.

[Alun Michael]

My right hon. Friend is absolutely right. We have seen a development of such institutions in recent times. For instance, the Welsh Affairs Select Committee, under the distinguished chairmanship of my hon. Friend the Member for Aberavon (Dr Francis), has developed a way of interchanging with the Assembly. It would be right for the Welsh Grand Committee also to develop its way of representing the people of Wales and engaging with the Welsh Assembly as an excellent new institution.

[Jonathan Evans]

I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for the opportunity to develop my earlier point. He says that he is not arguing that we retain the exact structure and keep the Assembly seats, as he had proposed in the past that there should be 60 Members, two for each constituency. Hence, it would seem that he argued for 30 constituencies.

[Alun Michael]

No; I am afraid that the hon. Gentleman is not very good at arithmetic, even though he depends upon it as a basic principle for his argument. The National Assembly for Wales has 60 Members. Under my proposed provision, it would have had 80 Members from the start, which, because of its greater legislative powers, would have made sense. My point is that the coterminosity of boundaries for Westminster and Assembly constituencies is one of the building blocks that should be part of the way constituencies are decided upon now and in future. For example, Sully was brought into the constituency of Cardiff South and Penarth, which I represent at Westminster, for the last Assembly elections, and the same boundary change was then made for the parliamentary elections. It is not rocket science; it is quite simple to deal with that. What is important is that we have those principles of coterminosity of boundaries with the Welsh Assembly constituencies, a respect for local authority boundaries—I say that as someone whose constituency crosses those boundaries—as the ward principle is an important one, and the representation of communities.

We all represent communities of interest. I can say confidently that my Labour colleagues all feel passionate about the communities that they represent. It is a basic parliamentary principle that we refer to each other by constituency, as we are here as representatives of our constituencies. It is that connection that the current legislation is likely to destroy, and that is why it is so important that the issue be debated properly by Welsh MPs and why it should have been debated properly in the Welsh Grand Committee.

--- Later in debate ---

[Jonathan Evans (Cardiff North) (Con)]

I wanted to contribute to the debate primarily because when I was listening to the parliamentary stages of the Bill, I heard the hon. Member for Rhondda (Chris Bryant), whom I am pleased to see in the Chamber, offer the observation that all Members of Parliament from Wales shared concerns about the legislation. I would like to put on the record that I am an enthusiastic supporter of the legislation.

[Chris Bryant]

He wants a job.

[Jonathan Evans]

We heard enough from the hon. Gentleman during the parliamentary stages of the legislation.

In Wales, we have a distorted voting system and a situation in which the Labour party, with 36% of the vote, has 65% of the seats. Anything that is done to change that voting system threatens the position of the Labour party.

[Kevin Brennan]

I hope that the hon. Gentleman is sincere in his belief that we can reduce the number of parliamentary seats in Wales and that he will still be able to keep his seat by carving up the Liberal Democrats. Nevertheless, does he agree that it would have been good to have the opportunity to discuss the points that he raises at a meeting of the Welsh Grand Committee?

[Jonathan Evans]

I intend to make only a brief speech and I will come to that matter, but I first wanted to put on the record my views about the legislation. The hon. Gentleman invites me to say what the impact would be on my constituency. The Electoral Reform Society has produced a report in which it speculates on what the outcome might be, and it suggests that my seat would revert to the Labour party. However, that makes no difference to my enthusiasm for the legislation. Why? Because I am a democrat. I see a situation in which my opponent, who was a very well regarded Member of the House, and over whom I had the smallest majority, had the second largest Labour vote in Wales, yet is not a Member of the House. Why? Because 25 of the 26 Labour seats in Wales have significantly smaller electorates than our electorate. We need to deal with that.

[Huw Irranca-Davies]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

--- Later in debate ---

[Albert Owen]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Jonathan Evans]

I am happy to give way to the hon. Member for Ogmore (Huw Irranca-Davies).

[Huw Irranca-Davies]

On the Welsh Grand Committee’s inability to have the opportunity to express the views of Welsh Members, one of the points I would have made in the Committee is that the concoction in the Bill means that any subsequent Government of a different political colour could take all the mechanisms in the Bill and—by the simple arithmetical change of saying that instead of 76,000 electors, we shall go to 80,000 or 100,000—gerrymander directly to their benefit under exactly the same arguments of democracy: one person, one vote, and equal votes. Does the hon. Gentleman not understand that the failure to give us the opportunity in the Welsh Grand to articulate not just the parochial dangers to our own seats but the dangers to democracy in the Bill is a signal failure of the Government?

[Jonathan Evans]

The basis on which I look at our system in Wales is that we have a gerrymandered system. The reality is that the Boundary Commission is invited to look at the historical basis of our constituencies. That is why all those constituencies are so small and why I am an enthusiastic supporter of the change.

[Albert Owen]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Jonathan Evans]

No, because I want to move to my second point, which is the contribution from my hon. Friend the Member for Brecon and Radnorshire (Roger Williams), who brought us back to what the debate is about. What should the Welsh Grand Committee be discussing? Here we are, having got on to discussing the legislation—[Interruption.] I shall come to that in a minute. The right hon. Member for Cardiff South and Penarth (Alun Michael) has been complaining about Government Members getting excited; Members should allow me to develop my point before we run out of time.

I certainly believe that there should be an opportunity for discussion, and there was an opportunity initially for discussion on the Floor of the House. I look across at the hon. Member for Rhondda, who was certainly not sparing in his contributions in the course of that debate. He has indicated to me, “Oh well, the Minister spoke for a long time as well,” but the reality is that those subjects were talked out. [Interruption.] Sorry, that is the reality. Therefore—[Interruption.] No, I will not give way because time is running out. [Interruption.] I have already given way three times; I am developing my argument.

I believe that there should be an opportunity for these points to be put. I am not making any criticism of my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State over the fact that she decided initially that there was an opportunity for us to discuss the matter on the Floor of the House. As things stand, however, that opportunity, for whatever reason, has been denied to us. I therefore hope that my hon. Friend the Minister will convey to the Secretary of State the fact that we are now in a changed circumstance. When she took her decision, it was on the basis that she thought that there would be an opportunity for discussion. That opportunity has been denied. [Interruption.] I think the word spoken from a sedentary position may have been unparliamentary—but there we are; we shall pass on that one.

I hope my hon. Friend the Minister will bear in mind the points I have made. I now want to draw my remarks to a conclusion.

[Chris Ruane]

Does the hon. Gentleman agree that the Welsh Grand Committee could have discussed not only the constitutional issues affecting Wales, but the economic issues? In his seat, 48% of workers work in the public sector. In my seat, the number is 46%. In Clwyd West, it is 45%. The Welsh Grand Committee could have discussed the impact of the sacking of 25% of those workers by the Government the hon. Gentleman supports.

[Jonathan Evans]

There is a need for us to develop mechanisms, as my hon. Friend the Member for Brecon and Radnorshire—[Interruption.] Let me please respond to the first point. My hon. Friend has outlined that there must be mechanisms. The Government are now looking to improve our political governance, and my hon. Friend proposed an agenda that could be helpful in that regard. I say to Opposition Members that people in Wales were not impressed by the first meeting of the Welsh Grand Committee. That is the reality. If there is to be a respect agenda, it is important that although the Labour party may have 65% of the seats in Wales, it should reflect on the fact that more than a quarter of people in Wales voted for the Conservative party and more than a fifth of the people in Wales voted for the Liberal Democrat party. The claim that Members on the Opposition Benches speak for the people of Wales is flawed.

[Ann Clwyd (Cynon Valley) (Lab)]

I am glad to speak under your chairmanship, Mr Caton. I congratulate my right hon. Friend the Member for Cardiff South and Penarth (Alun Michael) on securing this Adjournment debate. It was secured because, as many hon. Members have said, there was no possibility of a Welsh Grand Committee. I find that amazing, given the importance of the Government’s plans for the people we represent. It will be looked on as a great slight to the people of Wales that the Secretary of State for Wales, despite all the pleas made to her, has refused to have a sitting of the Welsh Grand Committee.

There is some kind of alternative. As some of my hon. Friends have mentioned, we are to have a meeting tomorrow of the Welsh parliamentary party. A meeting of the Welsh parliamentary party can be called when no other forum exists to discuss issues of importance to Wales. I have invited all Welsh MPs—hon. Members of all parties who hold Welsh constituencies. I understand that all the Conservatives—there are not many of them—have turned down the invitation, which I find extremely disappointing.

[Jonathan Evans]

I fully intend to attend the meeting.

[Ann Clwyd]

I am very pleased to hear that. Does anyone else want to express their intention to attend? They will be very welcome, because we shall have a proper debate on issues of Government policy as they particularly affect our constituents.

The debate on the Floor of the House last night was very truncated because of the guillotine that fell at various points, but it was obvious from the passions that were shown and expressed during that very short debate that people who represent Welsh constituents feel that they are being sold short because they have not been able to have the full discussion that we all wanted on important constitutional reforms that affect our constituencies.

Oral Answers to Questions

Jonathan Evans Excerpts

Wednesday 8th September 2010 Commons Chamber

The Secretary of State was asked—

[Jonathan Evans (Cardiff North) (Con)]

1. What discussions she has had with the Deputy Prime Minister on the implementation in Wales of a reduction in the number of parliamentary constituencies; and if she will make a statement.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Wales (Mr David Jones)]

My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State and I have had numerous discussions with the Deputy Prime Minister and the Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office, my hon. Friend the Member for Forest of Dean (Mr Harper), who is responsible for political and constitutional reform, on matters affecting Wales in the Parliamentary Voting System and Constituencies Bill.

[Jonathan Evans]

Does my hon. Friend agree that the current electoral architecture in Wales, which grants the Labour party 65% of the representation on barely 36% of the vote, can be described neither as democratic nor as valuing votes from Wales equally?

[Mr Jones]

My hon. Friend is entirely right. The Government’s proposals for electoral reform are founded on the principles of equality and fairness, and it is clearly fair that votes cast at parliamentary elections throughout the United Kingdom should be of broadly equal value, including in Wales.

Llanishen Reservoir

Jonathan Evans Excerpts

Tuesday 6th July 2010 Commons Chamber

[Jonathan Evans (Cardiff North) (Con)]

This is the first occasion on which I have been able to address the House in debate for more than 13 years, following my decade of service as MEP for Wales in the European Parliament. Although this is not therefore a maiden speech as such, I want to begin by mentioning my predecessor, Julie Morgan. I paid full tribute to her service in the Welsh Grand Committee last week, so I will not go into detail again today, but I wish to introduce the debate by highlighting the cross-party agreement in Cardiff on the subject of Llanishen reservoir between me, my Labour predecessor and the hon. Member for Cardiff Central (Jenny Willott), who, because of an impending happy event, cannot be here this evening.

For the past 35 years, the Reservoirs Act 1975 has provided a robust procedure for maintaining the safety of British reservoirs. The law requires that A-class reservoirs must be inspected every 10 years by an independent engineer drawn from a panel compiled by the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs. Independence means not being in the employment of the owner of the reservoir, who is free to select any DEFRA panel engineer. Once such an engineer proposes further action, those measures become mandatory. They are, to use the words of one of the panel engineers who plays a key part in this story, “set as tablets of stone”. They cannot be altered without a new inspection, and a supervising engineer, again drawn from the DEFRA panel, must be appointed by the reservoir owner and given responsibility for carrying them out in accordance with the original recommendations.

If the inspecting engineer makes inappropriate safety recommendations, the reservoir owner can have the issue referred to a referee under section 19 of the 1975 Act. That process was devised to provide strong powers to maintain reservoir safety, with appropriate review powers for the reservoir owner. However, the legislation and its method of enforcement are actually being abused to undermine safety in the case of Llanishen reservoir in Cardiff, which threatens to bring about the destruction of the reservoir itself.

Llanishen reservoir was built between 1884 and 1886 to supply water to the city of Cardiff, but it has not been used for water supply for more than 30 years. For many years the local council has leased the reservoir for sailing training, and the area is widely popular for both walking and fishing. However, the current owners of the reservoir, Western Power Distribution, a subsidiary of a major US energy corporation, PPL—formerly Pennsylvania Power and Light—wants to redevelop the land for more than 300 houses and flats. For the past eight years, that US giant’s subsidiary has put forward multiple planning applications. All have been refused, and PPL has challenged every refusal.

Additionally, the area has been granted multiple protections. It is a designated site of special scientific interest and site of importance for nature conservation, and the reservoir structure itself has been listed by the National Assembly as a structure of special architectural and historic importance, with the active approval and recommendation of the Institution of Civil Engineers. PPL’s subsidiary WPD unsuccessfully challenged each and every one of those designations. However, I want to make it clear that the debate is not about those planning powers, which have been devolved to the National Assembly. I mention the ambitions of PPL’s subsidiary because they form an important background and context to the events that give rise to my debate.

A DEFRA panel engineer, Mr Earp, inspected the reservoir under the Reservoirs Act in 2004 and passed it as safe. That is the last we will hear of Mr Earp. The next statutory inspection was not due to take place until 2014. However, WPD brought forward the next inspection by six years, and decided to appoint a different engineer. In other words, the reservoir owner, having received a report declaring that the reservoir was safe, and not needing to do another for 10 years, decided to have an examination undertaken only four years later.

The engineer who was appointed, Dr Andrew Hughes, suggested that the owners made the decision not because of any risk to safety, but in anticipation of their being successful in any change in use of the reservoir. Dr Hughes was required by law to be independent of WPD. He is employed by a company called Atkins, the multinational civil engineering consultancy, which is active in many countries. He undertook his inspection in 2008 and, to the shock of many, including the local reservoir action group, recommended that a full examination of the pipework at the base of the reservoir be carried out in the interests of safety. Then Dr Hughes then left the scene. Having prepared his report, he has subsequently refused to engage in any debate with third parties about his conclusions, and he considers his role to be closed.

Under the Reservoirs Act, the next step is for a supervising engineer to be appointed by the reservoir owners to carry out Dr Hughes’s recommendations. That engineer has been appointed. He is Mr Owens—again, a DEFRA panel engineer— whose services were apparently offered to the reservoir owners by Atkins, the company whose employee produced the original independent inspection. Mr Owens said:

“Atkins Limited offered Western Power Distribution Ltd my services as one of their Qualified Civil Engineers, to oversee the execution of the mandatory measures in the interests of safety recommended in Dr Hughes Inspection Report dated May 2008. WPD accepted Atkins offer and appointed me accordingly.”

Mr Owens has declared that the reservoir must be fully drained. Given that the reservoir is filled solely by rainfall, if it is drained, it will take a decade to refill it, and major damage may be caused to the integrity of the whole structure in the meantime. The recommendations of the Atkins engineers, Dr Hughes and Mr Owens, have been closely examined and challenged by two other DEFRA panel engineers, Dr Binnie, who has been working for the local residents group, the reservoir action group, to which I pay tribute for all its work in the past eight years, and Mr Alan Warren of Halcrow—a very well known civil engineering company—who was commissioned to advise the Environment Agency.

After a freedom of information request, the Environment Agency recently provided a copy of Mr Warren’s report. I have it here. It was produced in the past month and has come into my hands only in the past fortnight. In it, Mr Warren says:

“The overall objectives of the work are not clear to me and the QCE”—

qualified civil engineer—

“Mr Owens has not clarified the conditions under which he will provide certification.

The wording of the recommendations made by Dr Hughes is such that a complete emptying of the reservoir is not mandatory. The QCE Mr Owens has offered little evidence to support his approach of fully draining the reservoir in preference to others.”

Most importantly, the report states:

“It is apparent that the statutory measures are being addressed in a manner which will create new risks to reservoir safety”.

Let me underline that. According to the Environment Agency’s own adviser, a DEFRA-approved panel engineer, the works that Atkins intends to carry out at Llanishen reservoir create new risks to safety. When such a fundamental disagreement between professionals exists, there ought to be a mechanism for referring it to a professional body for adjudication, but under the legislation, the right to refer to a referee appears to be granted exclusively to the owners of the reservoir. WPD and its US owners unsurprisingly have no interest in such a process.

In the meantime, the Environment Agency, as the enforcement authority under the 1975 Act, is obliged to serve notice on the reservoir owners to insist on the works being undertaken, even though its own DEFRA panel engineer has warned that the works will compromise the safety of the reservoir. I understand from the Environment Agency that despite that, it has drawn the conflicting reports to the attention of DEFRA, which of course retains the power of appointing panel engineers under the Act.

The local newspaper, the South Wales Echo, has run a major campaign urging PPL to intervene. PPL’s chairman, president and chief executive officer, Mr James Miller, is apparently proud of the environmental record of his company and boasts on his website that

“at PPL doing the right thing comes naturally”.

The paper’s readers were urged to write to Mr Miller to urge him to do the right thing. The website also states:

“We have a clear expectation that everyone in the PPL family at all our operations around the world will live up to the company’s expectations for integrity and ethical behaviour”,

but I am afraid that Mr Miller has proved to be less of a Ralph Nader and rather more of a Montgomery Burns. He actually failed to respond to any of the letters of concern sent by local residents and others, and referred each and every one back to WPD in the UK.

In a curious irony, Mr Keith Clarke, the CEO of Atkins, is visiting Cardiff on the 15 July to receive recognition from Cardiff university of his contribution to civil engineering. Mr Clarke is fully aware of the role that his company has been playing in relation to the future of Llanishen reservoir. I challenge him to visit the reservoir, to meet the reservoir action group and locally elected representatives, and to see what is being done by his colleagues in his company’s name.

Robust and valuable laws that have been used to maintain the safety of our reservoirs for a generation are being cynically abused in my city to bring about the opposite effect, and an important historic landmark, recognised as being of national importance, is about to be vandalised.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Wales (Mr David Jones)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Cardiff North (Jonathan Evans) on securing this debate, which is important both for his constituents and, because it concerns Government policy on reservoir safety, for the whole country.

As my hon. Friend will appreciate and as he identified, the case of the Llanishen reservoir is complex, and today is not the first occasion on which the matter has been ventilated on the Floor of the House—as recently as last February, it was referred to by his predecessor, Julie Morgan, in the St David’s day debate. The case of Llanishen reservoir involves consideration not only of reservoir safety, but of protection of the environment, planning law and listed buildings consent. While matters relating to the safety of reservoirs in Wales are devolved, and I know that the Welsh Assembly Government Minister for Environment, Sustainability and Housing has been monitoring events closely, the Environment Agency is responsible for enforcing matters of reservoir safety in Wales.

The Reservoirs Act 1975, as amended, sets out the safety regime for reservoirs in England, Wales and Scotland. Llanishen reservoir is a large raised reservoir under the terms of the Act, that is to say one designed to hold or capable of holding more than 25,000 cubic metres of water above the natural level of the land. As such, it should—pursuant to section 10 of the Act—be inspected by a qualified inspecting engineer at least every 10 years.

As my hon. Friend said, Llanishen reservoir was last inspected in 2008 and the inspecting engineer made a number of recommendations relevant to its safety. He recommended that a survey of all valves and pipework in the reservoir should be carried out to check their layout and condition. Although he did not specifically require a drain-down of the reservoir, he pointed out that this would be necessary in order for its operator, Western Power, to implement his recommendations. Once such recommendations have been submitted by the engineer, there is a legal obligation on the operator to implement any necessary measures as soon as practicable. In the case of Llanishen, the inspection report specified that these should be done within 12 months.

Western Power did not complete these measures on time so the Environment Agency served an enforcement notice on the company. That notice required the company to complete the outstanding safety measures within an agreed timescale. Western Power elected to draw down the reservoir to carry out a visual inspection of the pipework. It began drawing down the water on 26 February 2010 by siphoning water over the reservoir embankment and into the Nant Fawr stream. The water level within the reservoir has been lowered by approximately 4 metres. The siphoning has now stopped.

Although the Environment Agency has no legal powers to prevent the draw-down from happening, it has written to the company to emphasise that in the agency’s view the company does not necessarily need to drain down Llanishen reservoir in order to carry out the safety inspections identified by the inspecting engineer. However, should the company insist on completing the draw-down, the company needs an environmental permit or discharge consent from the agency to proceed. This document is issued under section 85 of the Water Resources Act 1991 and gives permission to discharge water that may contain silts or sediments—such as in reservoir water— sewage or trade effluents directly into surface waters, rivers, streams, canals, groundwater or the sea. In fulfilling its obligations under this Act, the Environment Agency determines environmental permit applications to regulate the water being discharged in order to protect water quality, the environment and human health.

During its consultation on the application, which was advertised in the South Wales Echo, the agency received a number of comments from the local community, including some from the Llanishen reservoir action group. These comments are being considered as part of the agency’s assessment of the application. If Western Power proves to the agency’s satisfaction that the draw-down will not cause any detrimental effect on the Nant Fawr stream, its wildlife or the local environment, the agency is obliged to issue an environmental permit. However, if granted, the permit will place appropriate conditions on the company to minimise the risk of pollution or damage to the local environment.

The SSSI status conferred upon the Llanishen reservoir embankments by the Countryside Council for Wales in September 2005, which was confirmed in May 2006, will no doubt be an important factor in the agency’s assessment. I understand that Western Power has consulted the Countryside Council on its plans for the reservoir. The listed building status of the dam attached to the reservoir by Cadw is also an important factor to be taken into account, but it is my understanding that no application for listed building consent has been submitted by the company in relation to the drain-down. In any case, consideration of any such application would be a matter for Cardiff city council as the appropriate authority. If at any time the Environment Agency comes to believe that the reservoir has become unsafe or detects any damage or pollution to the environment from the further draw-down proposed by Western Power, proportionate enforcement action will be taken against the company.

I recognise and share my hon. Friend’s concerns over the many issues he has identified in relation to the reservoir at Llanishen. I hope also that I may reassure him of the importance I attach to the debate on matters that are not just of concern to local communities, but which might indeed have wider implications and which I intend to take steps to pursue. I therefore intend to write to the Welsh Assembly Government Minister with responsibility for the environment and sustainability, Jane Davidson, who has devolved responsibilities in this matter, to convey the concerns raised in the House this evening. I intend also to write in a similar vein to Robert Symons, the chief executive of Western Power, to urge that his company engages with interested parties in this matter.

As my hon. Friend has so eloquently pointed out, the Llanishen case has highlighted the fact that, whereas a reservoir operator has a means of challenging a determination by the Environment Agency, current legislation does not provide for reconsideration by an inspecting engineer of his report once it has been submitted to the operator, even if new information or a contrary view is provided from another source. That seems to be an issue that merits further reflection. I therefore intend also write to my hon. Friend the Member for Newbury (Richard Benyon), the Under-Secretary at the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs with responsibility for the natural environment and fisheries, to ask him to consider the scope for addressing this apparent anomaly in the course of the Government’s implementation of section 4 of the Flood and Water Management Act 2010, which will introduce a risk-based approach to the assessment of reservoir safety, and on which the Government will consult in due course.

[Jonathan Evans]

The reservoir action group and local residents will be very pleased to hear my hon. Friend’s statements from the Dispatch Box. Within his busy schedule, when he is in Cardiff on some convenient occasion, will he take the opportunity to visit the reservoir and meet the interested parties and locally elected representatives, as I challenged Mr Clarke to do during my earlier remarks? Bearing in mind what my hon. Friend has said, there will be people who will wish to take the opportunity to thank him for his interest.