Automated and Electric Vehicles Bill

Debate between Jonathan Edwards and John Hayes

2nd reading: House of Commons & Ways and Means resolution: House of Commons
Monday 23rd October 2017 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hayes]

The aim of the Bill is to create the greater certainty that is, as several Members have said, necessary for further developments. As I will explain in a moment, when I get to the main thrust of my contribution, we focused mainly on insurance. That is because we were told by the insurance industry that it was essential to establish absolute clarity about the framework for the development of a series of insurance products. The Bill sets out that framework. Those who recall the previous discussions on the matter, and who have studied the record, will know that the insurance industry has widely welcomed our endeavours in that respect. I have the Hansard here, but I would tire the House unduly if I merely read out that which Members already know. In essence, the Bill creates greater certainty about the development of insurance products, to put at rest any doubts that might have prevailed.

[Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) (PC)]

What discussions has the Minister had with the insurance industry about the likely cost of premiums? If one of the main benefits of automated vehicles is increased safety, does he expect premiums to fall?

[Mr Hayes]

We explored that a bit with the industry in the witness sessions on the previous Bill. As Members know, we introduced the Bill and we gave it a Second Reading and a Committee stage—a very good one, actually—as part of which we took evidence from the insurance industry. The Bill that we are considering is very similar to the previous one, which, as a result of the general election, did not proceed.

My guess is that initially, as the marketplace develops and new products emerge, prices will be much as they are now; but that as the record becomes established and insurers’ calculations about the likelihood of claims are affected by the greater safety provided by autonomous vehicles, prices may well fall. That is, in the end, a matter for insurers. It is not something that the Government can stipulate, dictate or even, with any certainty, predict. Following on from the intervention by the hon. Member for Eltham (Clive Efford), it seems to me that if the safety of autonomous vehicles means fewer accidents, insurers will find that out. As they do so, the ability to insure a vehicle will grow and the price of doing so will fall. That is, as I say, a matter for the future and not for now.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Hayes]

Retrofitting is an important way in which we can improve the existing fleet of vehicles. As my hon. Friend will know, some of the money that is being invested in low emission vehicles is going towards changing the existing fleet, so she is right about that.

I thought of Disraeli as my hon. Friend rose, as I am sure did she. Disraeli said:

“Man is not the creature of circumstances. Circumstances are the creatures of men. We are free agents, and man is more powerful than matter.”

What we do in the future about these things is in our hands. It is in the hands of Governments and Parliament. We can create the kind of future we want and, in embracing this technology, ensure that it is harnessed to best effect. As I have said, not all technological change is implicitly virtuous, so people must not assume that all technological development is, by its nature, efficacious. It has no intrinsic moral aspect. It is for us to decide how the best outcome can be achieved through the kind of technological changes we are considering tonight. That will be done across the House, I know, by people of good will.

We need also to think about what workplaces can do. I want to help workplaces to provide charging facilities for fleets and employees’ cars. I want to ensure that vehicle charging is flexible to meet the demands of the grid and avoid extreme peaks in demand. It is in everyone’s interest to make the running of an electric vehicle as easy as possible and to get more of them on our roads as quickly as possible. In that vein, the Government will be—

[Jonathan Edwards]

Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?

[Mr Hayes]

I just want to make this point, because I am building up to an exciting part of my speech. That may not have been evident, but it will be in a moment.

In that vein, the Department will be seeking the views of the public on the design of the charging infrastructure. I promised previously a public consultation—indeed, a competition—to develop a charging infrastructure that is instantly recognisable. It seems to me absolutely right that when one drives down a street, one should be able to spot an electric charging point rather as one can spot a pillar box or Belisha beacon. It would be appropriate—although I leave this for others to decide—if my name were associated with such a thing. The shadow Secretary of State has suggested it should and I will take that as a proposal, but it is for the House to consider whether it agrees with that proposal and to make a decision on the exact nature of the name. Something alliterative and memorable might suit.

We certainly need to think about consistency with regard to charging points. People need to know where they are. We have electric vehicle charging points outside the Department for Transport, but I am not sure that anyone could spot them driving down Horseferry Road unless they knew that they were there and were familiar with what an electric charging point looked like. They do not stand out and perhaps they should.

Air Travel Organisers’ Licensing Bill

Debate between Jonathan Edwards and John Hayes

2nd reading: House of Commons
Monday 3rd July 2017 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hayes]

I will come to that later, because the hon. Gentleman is right to draw attention to the role of the airlines in all this. As he will know, they are covered by other licensing arrangements, but I will address the specific points that he has made. As ever, he has made a case for his Luton constituents, and particularly for Luton airport, which I know is in his constituency.

[Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) (PC)]

As the Minister knows, Cardiff International airport is owned by the Welsh people via our own Government. What discussions has he had with the Welsh Government about the Bill’s impact on operators working from Cardiff?

[Mr Hayes]

Prior to that first Bill, we had discussions with devolved Governments about its character and content, and I think that there is agreement across the kingdom about the necessity for these measures. I always enjoy my discussions with the devolved Governments, and will continue to do so in my role as Minister of State. However, the hon. Gentleman is right to say that the Bill will affect all parts of our kingdom, not least because of the travel that takes place to and from different parts of it by air. We will certainly want to continue to receive representations from those Governments as these matters roll out.

Before I go any further, let me say something that I should have said at the outset. As you will know, Madam Deputy Speaker, there has been some debate in the Chamber in recent days about sartorial standards. I ought to say, as a matter of courtesy, that I will not be taking interventions from any Member who is not wearing a tie, on whichever side of the House that Member may sit. However, I believe in generosity as well as in courtesy, and I will provide a tie, which I have here, for anyone who is sartorially challenged or inadequate. Of course, I exclude lady Members from that; I would hardly expect them to dress in my tie, their own or anyone else’s.

Let us move to the origins of the UK holiday market. This week will see one of the UK’s, and the world’s, leading travel brands celebrate 175 years of travel. It was on 5 July 1841 that Thomas Cook arranged the first excursion. That was a one-day train journey from Leicester to a temperance meeting in Loughborough. The train carried around 500 passengers a distance of 12 miles and back for a shilling. Contrary to popular belief, I was not the Transport Minister at the time, and I certainly was not one of the passengers, but those early excursions were significant. They helped to form the foundations of the travel and tourism sector in the UK. The growth of the railways meant that, for the first time, affordable travel could be combined with leisure activities or accommodation and offered to a growing population of consumers.

Of course, today’s holidays—today’s excursions—are quite different from those first ones. Society has changed, and the promise of sun, sea and sand means holidays are more likely to be driven by temperature than temperance. I personally choose to have my holidays on the east coast of England, largely, in Broadstairs, Northumberland and most places in between, but not everyone does, and those who want to travel further afield and those who wish to use technology to make those choices will want to know that they are protected in doing so.

The advancement of technology has continued to drive the biggest challenges facing the leisure travel sector. Affordable air travel and fuel-efficient planes mean that people are able to travel further, and for longer. The growth of the internet and mobile phone technologies have revolutionised the way people book holidays, creating greater opportunities for consumers and businesses.

We debated these issues on the Committee to which the hon. Member for Kilmarnock and Loudoun referred. It was clear to us then, and I think to the whole House, that the UK has continued to lead the way. We have one of the most innovative and advanced leisure travel sectors in the world and one of the biggest markets in Europe. Overall, tourism contributes close to £121 billion to our economy annually, with outbound tourism contributing around £30 billion.

Strong consumer protection is vital to underpin confidence in that important sector. By its very nature, there are a number of risks in the holiday market which have existed ever since those first excursions. It is common for consumers to pay up front on the promise of a holiday, which may be many weeks or even months away. There can be a lack of awareness of the financial stability of holiday providers, particularly as services are often provided by third parties. In the rare event of a company failure—I mentioned at the outset that it is rare—consumers may experience a financial loss from a cancelled holiday, or significant difficulties from being stranded abroad. It was against that backdrop that the air travel organiser’s licence scheme, the ATOL scheme, was introduced in the 1970s for UK holidaymakers flying overseas.

I will not tire the House with a long, exhaustive history of the ATOL scheme. I see that that is disappointing to you, Madam Deputy Speaker, and to others, but I want to give all Members as much opportunity as possible to contribute to this important debate. Suffice it to say that the ATOL scheme protects consumers if their travel company fails. It does that in two ways.

First, travel firms that sell flight packages in the UK must hold an ATOL licence, issued by the Civil Aviation Authority. That helps to regulate entry into the market and to filter out companies that are not financially robust. Secondly, the scheme acts as a fund to compensate consumers who might be caught up in a failure. The ATOL licensed company must pay a small levy, £2.50, for each person protected by ATOL. That money is then held in the air travel trust fund and used by the CAA to ensure that consumers are returned home or refunded when a company fails.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Jonathan Edwards and John Hayes

Thursday 15th September 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hayes]

I did say at the outset that successive Governments have taken the view that tolling is justified on major infrastructure schemes. My hon. Friend will know that those matters are, as I said earlier, also being considered in the round. No decisions have been made to the effect that he describes.

[Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) (PC)]

The M4 is the main supply route into the Welsh economy and hence there is cross-party support in the National Assembly for devolving ownership of the Severn bridges once they return to public ownership. Will the right hon. Gentleman update the House on what discussions he has had with the Welsh Government on this issue?

[Mr Hayes]

I am always happy to have discussions with the Welsh Government, and I have done so in a variety of ministerial roles. My view is very clear, and I think that we have been plain about the toll on that important crossing. It is this Government who, when the current regime comes to its conclusion in 2018, will halve the toll. The hon. Gentleman must welcome that, as he knows how good it will be for his constituents, so I hope that after today’s questions he will put out a press release, congratulating the Government on their decision.

Infrastructure Bill [Lords]

Debate between Jonathan Edwards and John Hayes

Monday 8th December 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hayes]

I have no doubts about the Secretary of State for Transport. I am proud and privileged to serve under him in the Department. However, I should be more than happy to debate the issue of natural rights with the hon. Gentleman on any public platform. Perhaps he will invite me to do so at our mutual convenience.

The Bill does not alter the involvement of local authority planners, nor does it erode in any way the strength of our regulatory regime, the effectiveness of which has been demonstrated for a considerable time. In Scotland, “oil and gas” is a reserved matter, and the consent of the Scottish Parliament for the Bill is not required under the Sewel convention. Deep geothermal and petroleum exploration are not included in the 20 subjects on which the Welsh Assembly is currently entitled to legislate. As such, the proposals for oil and gas will apply across the whole of our island nation.

[Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) (PC)]

Will the Minister give way?

[Mr Hayes]

I will give way on that issue, because I know that the hon. Gentleman takes a different view.

[Jonathan Edwards]

The Smith commission, which is engaged in a cross-party process in Scotland, has made the case that powers over onshore oil and gas licensing should be devolved to the Scottish Parliament. Over the weekend, the Welsh Labour Government made the case that they should have similar powers. Will the United Kingdom Government use this Bill to enact the promises made to the people of Scotland and the wishes of the Welsh Government?

[Mr Hayes]

It is a fair question, and the amendment—which was not selected—in the name of various nationalists is understandable, but the fact is that the Government have to legislate for what is now, not what might be or could be, and we are indeed legislating for what is now.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Jonathan Edwards and John Hayes

Thursday 9th June 2011 Commons Chamber

[Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) (PC)]

Citizens advice bureaux have successfully piloted financial capability projects to aid the rehabilitation process. What plans does the Minister have to roll out that provision, because it could play a vital role in reducing reoffending rates?

[Mr Hayes]

I suspect that the hon. Gentleman has studied that matter rather closely. If he would like to come and speak to me and my colleagues about that particular aspect of offender learning, I would be happy for him to do so. He is right that those life skills, as well as the core skills and the employability skills that we have described in this short discussion, enable people to reintegrate into civil society in a way that is good for them, but also good for all of us because we must tackle recidivism.