Great Western Railway Routes

Debate between Jonathan Edwards and Huw Irranca-Davies

Monday 8th February 2016 Commons Chamber

[Huw Irranca-Davies]

That is a very good point. I hope that what has been said today will be noted not just by the Minister, but by train operating companies and infrastructure companies. I hope that they will act on the suggestions that have been made by Members, so that their services can work better for commuters and other passengers.

Several Members on both sides of the House have drawn attention to the importance of the spine of the network to all the branches that flow from it. It is not just to do with high-speed links or electrification. I travel here from Maesteg, where I live with my family—it is north of Bridgend, up the Llynfi valley—and I am fortunate that we still have a branch line there. Thank goodness that, at the height of the Beeching cuts, there was local opposition and strong-minded leadership in the Labour authority, and people fought and said that they would be damned if that line would close. They managed to keep it open, and nowadays it is a tremendous success. That route from Maesteg down to Bridgend, and all the way up to Chepstow and beyond, is a very popular route and we need to go further. We talk about travel-to-work areas. The people in my constituency travel down from Maesteg and from all the valleys I represent to work in Swansea, Bridgend and Cardiff, and they need good reliable and affordable transport in order to do that. We are fortunate that we have that in the Llynfi valley and we need to keep it that way.

We are also fortunate that we were able to open a new station on the Great Western mainline spine. It is rare to see that happen nowadays. The station at Llanharan, between Cardiff and Swansea, was closed in the ’60s under Beeching, but after a fight lasting more than 40 years, we were able, along with local Assembly Member Janice Gregory and local councillors Geraint Hopkins, Roger Turner and Barry Stephens, to reopen it. It has had great benefits, with more than 2,000 homes being built in the area and possibly another 2,000 on the way. The station has been an economic boon to the area. People want to come and live there because it is not just a place along the Great Western spine route; it now has a station. The point has been well made that we must ensure that we do not bypass communities when we deliver the electrification and the mainline spine; we also need to connect the spine to the communities.

[Jonathan Edwards]

The hon. Gentleman seems to have neglected to mention the role played by Ieuan Wyn Jones, the Transport Minister in the Welsh Government at the time, and a member of my party.

[Huw Irranca-Davies]

Ieuan Wyn Jones played a good hand in that campaign, and so did Andrew Davies, the Economic Minister at the time. His officials were telling him that the economic case for the station did not quite stack up, but he told them that it would when they saw the 2,000 new homes and the new schools that would come in as a result. My goodness, he was right. When I travel through the new station now, I see scores of people using it at every hour of the day as they commute to Cardiff for shopping or visiting relatives or to go to work. It has been a tremendous success, and we need to think more about these projects alongside the electrification.

Another critical aspect of using the spine along the Great Western railway is to ensure that it also connects to the south Wales metro. I use that name deliberately; I am not talking about the Cardiff Bay metro. This needs to be a genuine south Wales metro. In my area, linked to the Great Western line, we have the Llynfi line that was protected all those years ago, but we also have three valleys that have no connections to rail links at all. They need to be linked in to the First Great Western line when it is electrified and delivering faster services. That link might take the form of light rail, or perhaps good coaches and buses operating to the right timetable to enable them to make the connections at the right times of the day.

That kind of thinking has to happen, and representatives of Bridgend County Borough Council, under the leadership of Mel Nott, are now sitting down with the Welsh Government to work out how to join those communities that have no rail links to the Great Western spine, so that people in those communities can get to work and go to meet their friends and so that elderly people there can socialise with friends who live further away without having to get an expensive taxi.

[Huw Irranca-Davies]

I agree entirely with the hon. Gentleman, but I hope that he will support my point that this project must be delivered on time as originally pledged and, hopefully, on budget as well. The hon. Member for Newton Abbot said earlier that too many people think that the south-west ends at Bristol. Well, too many people up here think that south Wales ends at Cardiff. Cardiff is a brilliant city—please go there and visit. Newport had the NATO conference and Cardiff has the greatest stadium in the land, with the only covered surface. Wales also has the best national opera company. Cardiff was third in the top 10 short break destinations in the whole of Europe recently. However, south Wales does not stop at Cardiff. Just beyond that line, there is Bridgend, and just beyond Bridgend is Swansea. Beyond that is west Wales.

So I fully agree with the hon. Member for Gower (Byron Davies), but I want to say to the Minister today, “Don’t short-change us through these delays.” We have been talking about the economic benefits and we were told that the electrification project would be delivered to Swansea—not to Bristol, not to Cardiff, not to Bridgend, but to Swansea—and we want it to go to Swansea. Let us look at the developments that are happening in Swansea at the moment. There is the SA1 project and the new university campus out at Briton Ferry. These are tremendous jewels in Swansea’s economic crown, and they need to be joined up. South Wales does not stop at Cardiff—brilliant city though that is. It goes way beyond that, and we need this project to be delivered.

I agree with the hon. Member for Gower’s primary point that we need to get the electrification completed, but I hope that he would agree with me that we need to get it done promptly and on time, without the delays that we have been talking about. We have now been told that it is to be put back into control period 6. For those who do not know what that means, control period 6 is between 2019 and 2024, which would mean that the project would not be completed at the same time as the rest, around 2018. So in effect, Christmas will come late for the hon. Gentleman’s constituents and for mine. We are going to have to wait for our Christmas presents, and that is not good enough. His constituents are not second-class citizens of this nation and neither are mine. Let us have this project on time, at the same time as everybody else. I know that he agrees with me on this.

[Jonathan Edwards]

The hon. Gentleman is making a very important point. Does he agree that it would be far better if these large infrastructure development projects started in Swansea as opposed to starting in London? If they started in Swansea, you can guarantee they would arrive in London on time and in budget.

[Huw Irranca-Davies]

I would certainly be reasonably happy with that. I would probably start them from Bridgend and work outwards in both directions, but starting from Swansea would be a good second option.

I was talking about connectivity with the Great Western rail line, and the necessity of delivering the Heathrow link has been mentioned in this regard. Come what may in terms of capacity expansion at Heathrow, that link needs to be made. The journey from South Wales to Heathrow is preposterous at the moment, and that link needs to be delivered. Again, it would provide a major economic boon. It is not only business people who say this—although they do, repeatedly; it is also commuters. It is also myself. I fly from Cardiff and from Bristol, and I also fly from Heathrow. These preposterous patterns of travel need to be remedied, and that needs to be done quickly. These plans have been sat on for years and years.

The hon. Member for Gower has said that the electrification plans are good, but they must be delivered on time. The Welsh Government have made it clear, as have other parties in Wales, that we are holding this Government to their original commitment of delivering it on time and on budget. I would ask the Minister to ensure that, when this is done, full discussions are held with the communities along the routes about the related infrastructure developments that would really benefit those communities. I will give the House an infamous example, from my own constituency. The lovely town of Pencoed still has a traditional level crossing, and it is one of the busiest in the land. It is right in the centre, next to the cenotaph and the shops. When we march there on Remembrance Sunday every year, we have to time our marches to take account of what can be a 15-minute wait while the level crossing is closed. Of course, that happens every day of the week, not just on Remembrance Sunday.

If we have this major investment that will require not only electrical infrastructure but raising the height of bridges and making major structural changes in different communities, I would love to meet the Minister, with Mel Nott from the local authority and the town council, to discuss how we can all work together to get rid of the level crossing and upgrade the bridge which is only half a mile or less up the road, so that we can get two lanes of traffic over it. That would allow us to solve the problem the level crossing causes, as well as drive electrification all the way down the line. Perhaps the Minister would invite me to meet her, along with a small delegation, because we think we can bring something to the table—the town council can, as can the county borough—and we can make this work for those communities as we drive electrification through.

My final point on electrification goes back to one made by the hon. Member for Gower, who represents constituents at the end of the main spine of the line. In case Ministers are confused, I should say that it does not finish there; it goes way beyond that, up into west Wales. For the purpose of this project, however, Swansea is regarded as where the Government originally said they would deliver electrification to. We are not talking about hybrid electrification—half diesel, half electric—variations or something that is late, but about electrification on time.

Regardless of that, at the moment we have been told that because of the delay we have no clear costings—to my knowledge, they have not been done—no clear start date, and thus no certainty. My worry is that this will drift, so I want some more clarity from the Minister today. I would love her to say that this is going to start between 2019 and 2024 and to give a date for delivering the full costings, so that we have a little more certainty that even though this is drifting, it is not drifting into the back of beyond. This is a great project. I wish all south-west Members, including the hon. Member for North Devon (Peter Heaton-Jones)—we stare at each other across the Severn estuary or the Bristol channel from our glorious coastlines—well in their aspirations for their areas. But my area needs electrification on time and on budget, so that we can link up all the other things we have been talking about in a cohesive infrastructure for south Wales and on to west Wales.

Wales Bill

Debate between Jonathan Edwards and Huw Irranca-Davies

Wednesday 30th April 2014 Commons Chamber

[Jonathan Edwards]

As one of the more reasonable Members on the Labour Benches—

[Huw Irranca-Davies]

Stop!

[Jonathan Edwards]

—is it the hon. Gentleman’s view that if there were a decision in future to change the electoral system in its entirety rather than the minor change proposed in the Bill, it should be for the Assembly to make that decision, rather than the House of Commons?

[Huw Irranca-Davies]

That is a good discussion to have and it will flow from part II of the Silk commission, which we will debate in the Chamber. It is a worthwhile debate to have in the present situation, where Parliament still has sovereign powers and still in essence passes to the Assembly the ability to do certain things, bearing in mind the commitment from our Front Bench in principle that we look favourably upon the idea of reversing the current position, where it is only the delegated powers that the Assembly can legislate on. That debate is not for today, but the time will come.

The explanatory notes, which Ministers seek to use to justify the reversal, say in paragraph 12 that the concern expressed by many people

“has been refuted in studies by the Electoral Commission and others which have demonstrated that the prohibition”

that is currently in place—the ban—

“has a disproportionate impact on smaller parties who have a smaller pool of potential candidates to draw upon.”

I am genuinely bemused by that. In my own constituency, which is a strong Labour constituency, not only are there Tory voters, but there are Tory elected representatives, a Plaid Cymru representative, and others. I cannot believe that they do not have a sufficient number of alternative candidates to put on a regional list.

All we are talking about is a handful—four candidates—appearing on a regional rather than first-past-the-post list. If they do not have the numbers, that is a real signal of a lack of confidence in the capacity of what have today been termed “minority parties” in the regions. I simply do not believe it—there are people who will and should come forward. Equally, we would have to do the same in the regions. There is an onus on the party to bring people forward in the valleys, the vale, west Wales and elsewhere. The argument that each region would not have four candidates who can be put on the list just does not hold water.

Finance (No.2) Bill

Debate between Jonathan Edwards and Huw Irranca-Davies

Tuesday 8th April 2014 Commons Chamber

[Jonathan Edwards]

I am sure that my hon. Friend’s surgeries, like mine, are filled weekly with individuals who face problems with reductions in the support that they receive. With all that in mind, it is difficult to look them in the eye and support a tax cut for those on the highest incomes. It undermines the case for the moral crusade I alluded to earlier and public support for the fiscal policy of the current UK Government.

[Huw Irranca-Davies (Ogmore) (Lab)]

The hon. Gentleman is making some good points. Does he agree that, while there are technical issues in determining the exact point at which the Government will gain more or less from a tax, there is a significant signal from the 50p tax rate, which is that we are, at least to some extent, all in it together? His constituents are not far from mine, and the average median wage in the Ogmore valley is less than £21,000.

[Jonathan Edwards]

The hon. Gentleman always makes very intelligent points. I believe that he is talking about the Laffer curve. I will discuss the optimal rate of taxation later, but I agree wholeheartedly with his comments.

A report for the Office for National Statistics entitled “The Effects of Taxes and Benefits on Household Income, 2011/12”, which was released in July 2013, showed clearly that, while income tax is progressive, as it should be, the effect of indirect taxes such as VAT means that the bottom fifth of the income groups pay the most out as a percentage of their gross income at 36.6% in taxes, while the top fifth pay 35.5%. The overall tax system is therefore still heavily weighted in favour of the highest earners. Plaid Cymru believes in progressive taxation irrespective of the timing and state of the wider economy. We believe that those with the broadest shoulders should bear the burden of taxation. A Scandinavian model of progressive taxation is part of our DNA.

The House has voted on this measure only once, during the resolution votes following the 2012 Budget debate. I am delighted that it was Plaid Cymru and Scottish National party Members who called that vote. The shadow Chancellor must have been having an off-day, because the entire parliamentary Labour party abstained, apart from two honourable exceptions, the hon. Members for Bolsover (Mr Skinner) and for Newport West (Paul Flynn), if my memory serves me correctly. Although Labour Members voted against the Government’s 2012 Budget, which reduced the 50% rate to 45%, they missed the only vote that we have been able to have directly on the reduction of the top rate.

--- Later in debate ---

[Jonathan Edwards]

That is an important point about forestalling, which I will talk about in more detail later.

I note that the Office for Budget Responsibility’s March 2012 “Economic and fiscal outlook” states on page 110 that

“the revenue-maximising additional tax rate is around 48%.”

Again, that blows a hole in the Government’s argument that their reduction of the additional rate was based on sound economic and revenue-raising evidence. That is why they should now commit to carrying out a full report, as the new clause would compel them to do. I would argue that 48 is slightly closer to 50 than to 45.

The Chancellor told the House in 2012:

“The increase from 40p to 50p raised just a third of the £3 billion that we were told it would raise.”—[Official Report, 21 March 2012; Vol. 542, c. 805.]

I know my A-level maths is a little shaky, but that still makes £1 billion, a significant sum to the good people of Carmarthenshire and the good people of Wales and the rest of the UK. The Chancellor’s justification for the tax cut for the super-wealthy was that they would avoid the tax, they might leave the UK, it raised only £1 billion, and the reduction would lose the Government only £100 million. Having brought forward their income to avoid the 50p rate in the first year, the rich delayed it in the final year to benefit from the reduction to 45p. That forestalling and deferment will have cost the Treasury billions that could have been used to avoid some of the worst cuts to those on low incomes, such as those resulting from the bedroom tax.

Recent claims by some on the Government Benches that the tax cut for the richest has yielded more revenue conveniently gloss over the increased likelihood of those with an accountant being able to move their income into the following year, given the Government’s indication a year ahead of time that they were enacting the tax cut. My advice to the Government would be to enact the proper closing of loopholes to ensure that the super-wealthy pay their fair share, instead of the fig leaves of action that the Government have offered previously. They have still not introduced proper measures to make up the HMRC estimate of £35 billion lost each year through avoidance and evasion. Other estimates put the figure much higher. Claims that the rich were fleeing because of the 50% rate are also not very well grounded. Research by the TUC, using HMRC figures, indicated that 59% of those paying the 50% additional rate were employees, most working in banking and therefore unable to leave.

[Huw Irranca-Davies]

Does the hon. Gentleman understand the disconnect between those who are super-wealthy and the argument that he is making, when I, my constituents and my family, who rely on public services, the national health service and so on, see the sense in paying progressively higher rates of tax, myself included, to make sure that those services are available? Why is it that the super-wealthy do not see the sense in providing for public services? Is it, perhaps, because they do not rely on them?

[Jonathan Edwards]

That is certainly one argument, and I shall talk about how, with such an attitude, the super-wealthy are cutting off their own noses, and how a progressive taxation system would benefit them as well as people like the hon. Gentleman and me, who earn far less than those who get hit by the top rate.

As the 2012 HMRC paper that examined the effect of the 50% additional rate of income tax noted,

“there was a considerable behavioural response to the rate change, including a substantial amount of forestalling: around £16 billion to £18 billion of income is estimated to have been brought forward to 2009-10 to avoid the introduction of the additional rate of tax.”

This is a massive sum which would arguably have been included in taxation had the measure been announced with immediate effect.

The most recent figures from HMRC revised liabilities up by £2.8 billion in 2010-11, £3.3 billion in 2011-12 and £3.5 billion in 2012-13. This means that HMRC says it earned a total of £9.6 billion more than previously thought from the 50p tax rate. These are of course projections of taxable income, but that makes the case for the new clause which I am pushing.

Growth and Infrastructure Bill

Debate between Jonathan Edwards and Huw Irranca-Davies

Monday 17th December 2012 Commons Chamber

[Huw Irranca-Davies (Ogmore) (Lab)]

Does the hon. Gentleman therefore consider Labour’s position on the devolution of projects providing up to 100 MW, which would include the vast majority of wave and tidal power schemes and many others, to be good and sensible, not least because it recognises that larger UK national infrastructure schemes, such as a Severn barrage scheme, were it ever to happen, are of interest to England and Wales?

[Jonathan Edwards]

I am grateful for that intervention and I welcome the hon. Gentleman to the world of Twitter —he was tweeting in Welsh over the weekend and I was very pleased to see it. I shall come on to Labour’s current policy later in my speech.

As I introduced my Bill, I said that the people of Wales were extremely protective of their natural resources. Naturally, as a result of the vote there was a public outcry in Wales, with Labour accused of betrayal. Subsequently, the First Minister made a public statement that the Labour party, despite the voting record of its MPs, supported total control over energy planning policy. His Government then published an energy policy document that highlighted how the sector was key to the future of the Welsh economy. I could not agree more, which is why I have introduced my new clause this evening.

I hope that, if pushed to a vote, the Lib Dems will maintain their principled position. If Labour MPs sit on their hands or join the Tories in the Lobby, the credibility of Carwyn Jones will be shot to pieces. The shadow Secretary of State for Wales has said today in the Western Mail, in response to my new clause, that Labour in Westminster supports the devolution of planning for energy projects only up to a limit of 100 MW. That shows a complete lack of coherence between Labour in London and Labour in Cardiff. It flies in the face of and contradicts the wishes of the First Minister, who said in March that he did

“not see why 100 MW should be the limit in the future.”

In addition, in June this year, John Griffiths, the Minister for Environment and Sustainable Development, stated that

“the Welsh Government…wishes to have further devolution of power over energy”

and “do not limit” themselves at 100 MW.

During a recent “Sharp End” interview, the First Minister adopted Plaid Cymru’s position and said that he wanted full control over energy planning policy. If energy policy is the key to the future of the Welsh economy for jobs and growth—I am certain that it is—why should a 100 MW limit be set? Total control over energy planning policy would allow the Welsh nation best to decide its energy future and would be essential in driving growth in our economy.

From a good governance point of view, there needs to be consistency in planning policy. Having two different authorities responsible for policy is a disincentive for investment, leads to a lack of coherence in energy and economic strategy and is awfully complicated for my constituents. I have two technical advice note 8, or TAN 8, areas in my constituency, which are designated zones towards which the Welsh Government direct onshore wind development. The projects under 50 MW are determined by the local planning authority and those above are determined by Ministers here in Whitehall. Local people experience a huge difference when dealing with both authorities. With the LPA, they have direct access to planning officers and local councillors, whereas not a single official or Minister has even bothered to come to north Carmarthenshire to discuss with them the Brechfa Forest West development, which has just landed on the Secretary of State’s desk in London. The arrangements lead to a huge democratic deficit and my surgeries are constantly filled with angry and disillusioned people. My new clause would help to deal with that.

I have tabled a modest and reasonable amendment that would enable the people of Wales better to plan our energy infrastructure over 50 MW on a par with Scotland. It will also help the Welsh Government play their part in helping the UK Government to achieve the aims of this Bill, leading to greater policy coherence and unleashing the economic potential of Wales’s energy resources. If Ministers refuse to accept the new clause, I am minded to press it to a Division.