Finance Bill

Debate between Jonathan Edwards and David Gauke

Monday 26th October 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mr Gauke]

It certainly is the case that there has been no shortage of representations received by the Treasury on the changes we have undertaken in this area. As always, it is necessary to strike a balance between ensuring we move swiftly to address any risk to the Exchequer and ensuring the legislation is adequate and achieves what the Government seek. I am satisfied that in these circumstances we have struck that balance successfully, and that there has been the opportunity to understand the implications of this legislation while at the same time ensuring we have been able to protect the Exchequer.

While I am on my feet, and perhaps to anticipate some of the points that will be made on this somewhat diverse group, I shall address the related matter of new clause 3 tabled by Scottish National party Members. It proposes a review within six months of Royal Assent on the tax treatment of investment fund managers’ remuneration. Legislating for a review in six months is unnecessary. The Government have already launched a consultation in this area to ensure rewards will be charged to income tax when it is correct they are, according to the activity of the fund. That consultation closed on 30 September and we will be publishing our response along with any resulting draft legislation in due course.

In anticipation of remarks I know we will hear from the hon. Member for Salford and Eccles (Rebecca Long Bailey) about vehicle excise duty, let me also turn to amendments 91 to 93. They would require the Chancellor to replace the changes made by clause 42 and introduce a new VED system that addressed none of the challenges of the current VED system. The amendments call for first year rates of VED to be extended to cover the first three years of ownership and thereafter for rates to be based on a shallower graduation of CO₂. By continuing to base annual rates of VED on CO₂, these amendments would recreate the sustainability challenge of the existing VED system. As new cars become more fuel efficient, more and more ordinary cars will fall into the lower rate of VED bands for their entire lifetime. The changes would also weaken incentives for people to purchase the very cleanest cars. The system Opposition Members propose would therefore need updating regularly to keep pace with technological change. Unless Opposition Members are proposing to retrospectively tax motorists every time the system needs tweaking, an entirely new VED system would need to be created each time. This would create uncertainty for motorists and car manufacturers, something they have repeatedly asked the Government to avoid. These amendments would also mean the VED system remains regressive and unfair for motorists. Poorer families with older, less fuel-efficient cars would still end up paying more tax than richer ones who were able to buy a new car every few years.

In contrast to amendments 91 to 93, the changes made by clause 42 do address the fairness and sustainability problems of the current VED system. These changes base annual rates of VED on a flat rate of £140 for all cars except zero-emission cars, which pay nothing. There will be a standard rate supplement of £310 for cars worth above £40,000 to apply for the first five years in which the standard rate is paid. These changes improve fairness for all motorists and ensure that those with expensive cars pay more than those with ordinary family cars. Those who can pay more will pay more.

They also provide long-term certainty in VED revenues. This supports the creation of the new roads fund so that from 2020 all revenue raised from VED in England will go into the fund. It will be invested directly back into the English strategic road network. The changes made by clause 42 still support uptake of the cleanest cars. They maintain and strengthen the environmental signal where it is most effective in influencing people’s choice of car in the highly visible first-year rates.

By returning VED to a flat rate while continuing to support the cleanest cars, clause 42 provides a simple, fairer, more certain and more sustainable long-term solution. It allows for the creation of a new roads fund which will ensure that our roads network will receive the multi-billion programme of investment it needs. I commend clause 42 and urge the house to reject amendments 91 to 93.

[Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) (PC)]

How will the roads fund work when applied to Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland, with the duty coming from Welsh, Scottish and Northern Irish car taxes?

[Mr Gauke]

I can assure the hon. Gentleman that the Government are talking to the devolved Administrations about exactly how we are going to do that. We are conscious that these are devolved matters, and we are actively engaged with the devolved Administrations.

I hope that the new clauses and amendments to which I referred earlier in the context of the enterprise investment scheme, venture capital trusts, corporation tax instalment payments and restitution interest payments will be able to stand part of the Bill and have the support of the whole House.

--- Later in debate ---

[Jonathan Edwards]

If there is any evidence in future years of significant behavioural changes, which some of us are concerned there might be, would the Government be willing to revise their position?

[Mr Gauke]

The Government and the Treasury keep all taxes under review, and were contrary evidence to emerge, we would of course look at it and, if necessary, adapt the policy. We have, however, made a judgment on the evidence before us, and consumer research demonstrates that first-year incentives are by far the most important when customers come to choose new cars.

The hon. Member for Salford and Eccles asked why the Government are now taxing plug-in and hybrid vehicles the same as conventionally fuelled cars. Such cars will still benefit from cheaper rates. The updated CO₂ banding on first-year rates in the new VED system will strengthen the incentive to purchase the cleanest cars, including plug-in and hybrid vehicles. As I have said, the evidence suggests that up-front incentives are the most effective in influencing behaviour. We will continue to support hybrids and plug-in vehicles with beneficial rates of company car tax and enhanced capital allowances, as well as through the plug-in car grant. The Government have guaranteed that £5,000 grant until February 2016.

Our longer-term plan will be announced after the spending review. To drive down carbon emissions and air pollutants, we will give the greatest incentives to zero-emission cars—those that produce no air pollution or CO₂ whenever they are driven—which pay no VAT.

Air Passenger Duty: Regional Airports

Debate between Jonathan Edwards and David Gauke

Tuesday 20th October 2015 Westminster Hall

[Mr Gauke]

The Government have made significant progress on the devolution of taxes generally. The hon. Gentleman will be aware of the announcement made by the Chancellor of the Exchequer on the retention of business rates, for example. I know that business rates are already devolved in Scotland, but allowing English local authorities to retain business rates is an example whereby through aligning incentives, as it were, we can create the conditions for economic growth in every part of the United Kingdom.

I will deal with the specific points on APD in a moment, but first let me address the issue of the regional airports review, because, as part of that review, the Government published a discussion paper at the summer Budget this year. The paper explored three potential options for supporting regional airports affected by devolution: the first was devolving APD to regions within England; the second was varying APD rates within England; and the third was providing aid to regional airports.

The paper explored how the options could work and highlighted key points for consideration. The period for feedback on the options is now closed. We received a large number of responses and would like to thank all interested parties for their valuable responses to that consultation. We are carefully considering the views and evidence that we have received. We appreciate that the aviation industry values stability and certainty in the UK tax system and we will respond to the views expressed on the options in the discussion paper in due course. The response will set out how the Government wish to take the matter forward.

[Jonathan Edwards]

The Government have devolved APD to Northern Ireland and Scotland. The draft Wales Bill, published today, is glaring in its omission of any mention of APD being devolved to Wales. Is there a reason why the Government are rolling back on devolving APD to Wales?

[Mr Gauke]

I refer the hon. Gentleman to the remarks that I made a few moments ago. In accordance with the St David’s day package, we are considering the case and options for devolving air passenger duty to Wales. That consideration is ongoing. Once a conclusion has been reached, I am sure that he will be looking very closely at our response.

If I may, I will respond to some points that have been made in this afternoon’s debate. The hon. Member for Blackley and Broughton (Graham Stringer) raised the issue of whether APD is a good tax or whether we should just scrap it. It is worth bearing in mind that it raises £3.2 billion each year, which is an important part of the Government’s overall revenues. We consider that APD is a fair and efficient tax that ensures that the aviation sector contributes to the public finances. The amount of tax paid by people who can afford business class travel or luxury jets is much more than that paid by a passenger going to the same destination in economy class.

In recent years, we have reduced long-haul rates of APD and frozen short-haul rates for five years, and we are exempting children. APD is the main way in which the aviation sector is taxed. International treaty agreement means that there is no tax on international aviation fuel and no VAT on international flights. Unlike many countries, the UK does not charge VAT on domestic flights. It is also worth pointing out that the aviation sector is performing strongly. Passenger numbers grew by 4% in 2014 compared with 2013.

My hon. Friend the Member for Crawley (Henry Smith) referred in an intervention to a PwC report arguing that abolishing APD would boost GDP, create jobs and pay for itself. We do not agree with the assumptions behind the 2013 and 2015 PwC reports on APD. Our view remains that abolition would have a limited effect on GDP and cause a net loss of tax receipts. As I said, APD makes a contribution towards the public finances. Abolishing it would put pressure on the Government to increase less efficient and more regressive taxes.

Stamp Duty Land Tax Bill

Debate between Jonathan Edwards and David Gauke

Monday 12th January 2015 Commons Chamber

[The Financial Secretary to the Treasury (Mr David Gauke)]

It is a great pleasure to serve under your Chairmanship, Mrs Riordan, and to debate the Bill.

Clause 1 amends section 55 of the Finance Act 2003 to change the basis of calculation for stamp duty land tax on residential property transactions, and provide a new table of rates and thresholds that apply to those transactions. It also introduces the schedule that makes the consequential changes to SDLT, and to the method of calculating the amount of tax due when certain reliefs are claimed. As right hon. and hon. Members will be aware, the measure came into force through a resolution under the Provisional Collection of Taxes Act 1968 for transactions whose effective date—usually the date on which the purchase contract is completed—is on or after 4 December 2014.

Let me briefly remind the House why we have introduced this important and comprehensive reform to SDLT on residential property. In essence, the stamp duty system on residential property as it previously stood was flawed and widely criticised, and it created an enormous hike in taxes at certain thresholds. Someone paying £250,000 for a house would pay £2,500 in stamp duty, but if they paid £250,001, they would pay £7,500—three times as much. Inevitably that created peaks in transactions at those thresholds and dead zones above them, and that big distortion affected a significant number of properties. We have got rid of the inefficient and distorted old system and replaced it with a fairer new system that cuts SDLT for 98% of those who pay it. No buyer of a property under £937,500 will pay more SDLT than they would have done before 4 December. We have provided a calculator on the HMRC website so that people can work out how much tax they will pay, and I am happy to confirm that to date it has been used more than 1.25 million times.

[Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) (PC)]

As the Minister points out, this change will result in savings for the vast majority of people purchasing a home. What assessment has he made of the impact on house price inflation as a result of the changes?

[Mr Gauke]

There may be a slight impact on house prices, but we must put that in context. Many factors determine house prices, and on the evidence before us our view is that the changes will not have a significant impact on the overall level of house prices. They are likely to have a bigger impact on removing some of those dead zones and distortions in the housing market, which is beneficial in creating a more efficient and effective housing market.

The reform has been welcomed by right hon. and hon. Members in all parts of the House and by outside bodies, including the Council of Mortgage Lenders, the Institute of Directors and the Institute for Fiscal Studies. Jonathan Isaby, from the TaxPayers Alliance, called it:

“an early Christmas present for young people looking to get on the housing ladder.”

Barnett Formula

Debate between Jonathan Edwards and David Gauke

Tuesday 16th December 2014 Westminster Hall

[The Financial Secretary to the Treasury (Mr David Gauke)]

It is a great pleasure to serve under your chairmanship this afternoon, Sir Alan. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Milton Keynes South (Iain Stewart) on securing this debate and setting out his case in a characteristically thoughtful and analytical way. He brings great knowledge and expertise to the matter. I also thank other hon. Members for their contributions to this short debate, the timing of which is very appropriate. Given the momentous referendum in Scotland not that long ago and the Smith commission’s subsequent report, this subject has never been more topical. Furthermore, hon. Members will have seen that the Government have published a Command Paper today looking at the options for devolution in England. The paper acknowledges that the treatment of tax and spending decisions that impact on funding to the devolved Administrations will need to be considered in any solution.

Since its introduction over three decades ago, the Barnett formula has proved to be a durable and robust method of calculating changes to the block grants for the devolved Administrations, providing population-based shares of comparable UK Departments’ changes in spending. The leaders of the three main UK parties have confirmed that the Barnett formula will continue, and the House of Lords report in 2009, as we heard, recognised advantages such as simplicity, stability and the absence of ring-fencing. However, we also recognise the concerns expressed about the formula and we welcome all views on its continued implementation.

[Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) (PC)]

The vow has been made to the people of Scotland that the Barnett formula will be preserved and that Barnett funding will be preserved at its current level. Does the Minister not agree with my analysis, therefore, that a new benchmark has been set for what we would term fair funding? Whereas before the argument was for some sort of needs-based formula, the argument is now about making sure that the people of Wales, for instance, are not disadvantaged compared with the people of Scotland in terms of public funding per head.

[Mr Gauke]

Let me turn to the issue of fairness for all parts of the United Kingdom, including for Wales—I assure the hon. Gentleman that I will get to that eventually. As my hon. Friend the Member for Milton Keynes South has mentioned, there is a perception, particularly in parts of England, that Scotland is overfunded because it offers generous policies on university tuition fees, for example. However, I must emphasise that devolved Administrations do not receive any additional funding for those policies. They accommodate them within existing budgets by prioritising those policies over others—for example, by not protecting school spending during this Parliament, as we have in England.

One of the purposes of devolution is to allow the devolved Administrations to make different policy choices. That was set out in 1997 in the statement of principles, which states:

“The key to these arrangements is Block budgets which the devolved administrations… will be free to deploy…in response to local priorities.”

In contrast, commentators in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland tend to be concerned about the Barnett squeeze convergence property of the Barnett formula, whereby the percentage changes in devolved Administration spending are lower than in England. However, the Barnett formula itself does not change the budgets of the devolved Administrations disproportionately to England’s: an extra pound per head in England means an extra pound per head in the rest of the UK. The so-called Barnett squeeze reflects the higher levels of spending per head in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland that have existed over many years, before and since devolution in the 1990s.

I know that some hon. Members consider Wales to be relatively underfunded as its spending has converged towards the level in England. In fact, spending per head there is 11% above England’s and has more than doubled in cash terms since devolution. Wales also benefits from large EU structural fund spending, having been awarded £1.9 billion from 2007 to 2013 and a similar amount for 2014 to 2020.

However, we recognise that there are concerns about relative levels of funding for Wales; that is why we have established a bilateral process to consider that in advance of each spending review. The most recent assessment, before the 2013 spending round, determined that convergence was not forecast to occur through to 2015-16 and that the existing level of Welsh funding was within the range suggested by the Holtham commission. The Government have now further agreed with the Welsh Government to review that process in the light of the tax and borrowing powers contained in the Wales Bill.

Wales Bill

Debate between Jonathan Edwards and David Gauke

Tuesday 24th June 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Gauke]

It is a pleasure to return to the Bill. I will start with new clause 1 and amendments 2 to 5. These are principally technical changes that, taken together, are intended to address two possible scenarios that could occur if a portion of income tax is devolved to the National Assembly for Wales following a referendum. The first issue relates to the tax status of an individual. This is directly relevant to the calculation of certain social security benefits, state pensions and child maintenance payments, and could be affected by the introduction of a Welsh rate of income tax.

An issue could arise where information regarding the tax status of an individual has not yet been established or is not available—for example, if a person has newly become self-employed and it is not yet clear what rate of tax will apply. The new clause resolves the issue by allowing the Secretary of State by order, subject to an affirmative resolution, to deem a person a Welsh taxpayer for the purposes of calculating their benefits.

The second issue relates to a situation where the Welsh rate of income tax has not been set for the coming year at the time when certain social security benefits need to be calculated. New section 116D of the Government of Wales Act 2006 requires the National Assembly to pass a Welsh rate resolution before the start of the tax year, but this could be set late in the preceding tax year, thus not allowing the Government sufficient time to make the calculations that need to be made. In such cases it would be important for the Secretary of State to be able to deem a Welsh rate. This mirrors the position in the Scotland Act 1998, which includes a similar power in respect of the Scottish rate of income tax. The Bill needs to provide for the same contingencies in respect of the Welsh rate.

[Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) (PC)]

In Committee, there was some confusion as to whether Kay Swinburne, the Conservative Member of the European Parliament who represents Wales but lives in England, would be eligible for the Welsh tax rate. Can the Minister clarify that?

[Mr Gauke]

I fear that the hon. Gentleman may not recall that debate correctly. There is no confusion about the definition of a Welsh taxpayer. A Welsh taxpayer includes anybody who represents Wales or a Welsh constituency. I hope that repetition will provide some clarity for him, but the position was already clear.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Gauke]

All I can say is that Wales has a very good MEP in Kay Swinburne and I am delighted that she has been re-elected—[Interruption.] Indeed: by the people of Wales.

I return to the new clauses and amendments before us. However rare the circumstances that I set out a moment ago might be, the potential hardship that a delay in the calculation of entitlements would cause to individuals makes it essential that we make these amendments to cater for such circumstances.

Amendments 2 to 5 are consequential and relate primarily to the commencement of the new clause. As I said, these amendments are minor and technical, but they address an important set of circumstances that could have a serious impact on some of the most vulnerable in society. I urge all hon. Members to support them.

On Government amendment 1, clause 6 gives effect to the Silk Commission’s recommendation that the Welsh Government should be funded from a combination of a block grant and some devolved taxes, with the clause conferring the required competence on the Assembly to legislate for these devolved taxes. Amendment 1 slightly alters new section 116A of GOWA, inserted by clause 6, to correct the possibly misleading impression that those taxes listed in chapters 3 and 4 of part 4A are the only taxes for which the Assembly has competence. The Assembly already has competence for local taxation, which includes council tax and business rates, and this minor amendment clarifies the position.

On amendments 11 and 12, we have been working closely with the Welsh Government in relation to Welsh funding. In particular, the Government recognise that there has been convergence between the levels of funding in Wales and England since devolution, and that this is a significant concern in Wales. As a result, in October 2012 we agreed to implement a joint process to review the levels of funding in Wales and England in advance of each spending review. If convergence is forecast to occur during a spending review period, options will be discussed to address the issue in a fair and affordable manner, based on a shared understanding of all the available evidence.

In advance of the 2013 spending round, a joint review was therefore undertaken by the two Governments and the outcome set out in a written ministerial statement. The review determined that funding levels are not expected to converge during the period to 2015-16. In fact, an element of divergence is forecast to occur. The review also determined that relative funding levels in Wales are within the range recommended by the Holtham Commission. These arrangements ensure that we have a shared understanding of funding levels in Wales, and that a process is in place to consider options if convergence is forecast to resume. There is therefore a firm basis for proceeding with the new financial powers in the Bill, and I hope that when the opportunity arises, hon. Members will withdraw amendments 11 and 12, but I look forward to hearing them make their case.

I turn now to amendments 9 and 10. When it comes to the extent of income tax devolution in Wales, there is a careful judgment to make. Devolving an element of income tax would increase the financial accountability of the Assembly and the Welsh Government in three important ways. First, it would enable the Assembly to fund more of the spending for which it is responsible. Secondly, the Welsh Government’s budget would be directly linked to their economic decisions in areas such as education, skills, housing and planning. Thirdly, the Welsh Government would be able to vary the levels of tax and spending in Wales. However, creating the link between the Welsh Government’s decisions and their budget involves transferring some risk to the Welsh Government. Specifically, the Welsh Government’s budget would benefit if the income tax base grew faster in Wales than the UK average, but would be adversely affected if growth in Wales was slower.

The larger the proportion of income tax we devolve, the greater the potential impact on the Welsh Government’s budget. Devolving 15p of income tax would increase the size of these impacts by 50%, compared to devolving 10p. Devolving all income tax to Wales, which is the stated aim of amendment 9, would increase the potential impacts even further.

[Jonathan Edwards]

In the light of what the Minister has just said, why has the Prime Minister made a manifesto pledge, should there be a no vote in Scotland, to devolve 100% in the case of Scotland?

[Mr Gauke]

No, my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister has not made a manifesto pledge. The Strathclyde Commission has put forward recommendations, which will be considered in due course by my party for the next Parliament. I should point out with regard to the amendment tabled by the hon. Gentleman and his colleagues, which suggests replacing 10 percentage points with 100, that the effect would be to produce negative tax rates—a minus 60% tax, a minus 55% tax and a minus 80% tax. I am not sure that that was quite what the hon. Gentleman sought to do, but I appreciate that he was trying to devolve all income tax to Wales. I take the opportunity to point out that there is a technical problem with amendment 9.

There is a balance to be struck between risks and rewards. At this stage we see no evidence that suggests we should move away from the Silk Commission’s recommendation to devolve l0p of income tax.

--- Later in debate ---

[Jonathan Edwards]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for that second attempt, but I think I answered his question when he first intervened on me.

It is interesting that Labour Front Benchers have only now tabled amendments to the Bill to give Wales control over 15% of income tax revenue gathered in Wales. That proposal is in amendment 10. Admittedly it is better than the 10% on offer in the Bill as it stands, but it is still meagre and shows a lack of ambition and vision for Wales. That is symptomatic of the Labour Government in Cardiff and their puppet-masters here in Westminster. Of course, 15% is better than 10% and we shall be supporting the amendment if it is pressed to a vote, especially as it does not include the lockstep-plus mechanism I referred to in Committee. However, it still reflects Labour’s lack of dynamism. Why only 15%? That figure seems to have been chosen simply because it is ever so slightly better than the Tory and Lib Dem offering.

I see that Labour’s other amendments are more concerned with delay, obfuscation and preserving its own positions than with trying to get the best deal for Wales and its economy. On the vote in Committee to remove the lockstep restriction, Labour abstained, despite the Labour First Minister and Finance Minister having said that it should be removed. Where is Labour’s consistency? Again Labour Members say one thing in Wales and do another at Westminster. They are now saying that Wales should have control over 15% of income tax revenue, yet their amendment says nothing about the removal of the lockstep.

When the Westminster Government announced in November last year that Wales would be getting new powers, they stated that the powers would make Wales an “equal partner” in the UK. Nothing could be further from the truth. The Secretary of State for Wales has previously argued that Wales must be given “equal respect with Scotland”, yet his actions run completely against that. His party is effectively offering Scotland full income tax devolution, yet he is maintaining the lockstep in the Bill for Wales and proposing that we should have control of only 10% of the income tax revenues raised in our country.

In conclusion, I want the same powers for Wales as the other nations of the British state either have or are being offered. If the main party of Government here at Westminster has full income tax devolution for Scotland as its party policy, why on earth should Wales not have those same powers? The changing context of the Scottish independence referendum debate vindicates what I have said all along—namely, that its rapid development will ensure that the powers on offer in the Bill will not be the settlement for a generation that the Government are suggesting.

The Welsh economy needs those powers now, never mind in three years’ time—the earliest point at which they would come on stream. Ultimately, the powers on offer in the Bill pale into insignificance in the context of how the constitution of the British state will alter in the coming years. That should be noted by this Government and all the parties, and we should begin with full devolution of income tax, so that the Welsh Government can determine their own bands and rates.

[Mr Gauke]

I shall briefly respond to a number of the points raised in the debate. The first related to the cost of implementing the Welsh rate of income tax. HMRC is looking to develop a specific estimate for that cost but, because the timing of the introduction of a Welsh rate is uncertain and because it would depend on the outcome of a referendum in Wales, it is difficult to do so at this time.

I want to make two comments in regard to the comparisons with Scotland. First, the Scottish population is obviously larger than the Welsh population, so that will reduce some of the costs. Secondly, however, a counteracting element is that the number of people living close to the border might result in an increase in the number of people contacting HMRC to seek clarification. The hon. Member for Pontypridd (Owen Smith) mentioned the concern about the number of people working in Wales but living in England, and vice versa. We must remember that the definition of a Welsh taxpayer is based on where they live, not where they work. For the vast majority of people, it will be clear where they are, so we should not overstate those costs. As I have said, however, it is difficult to come up with a precise number at this point.

On the Strathclyde commission, I have made it clear that that will relate to what happens in the next Parliament. We certainly welcome Lord Strathclyde’s recommendations; there is much to take from them.

[Jonathan Edwards]

Given the comments of the Prime Minister and, especially, of the leader of the Conservative party in Scotland, does the Minister think that Ruth Davidson was being rather exuberant—for want of a better word—in proclaiming that those measures would definitely be in the manifesto?

[Mr Gauke]

I would say to the hon. Gentleman that what the Prime Minister says will be in the manifesto tends to be in the manifesto. That is a fairly wise approach.

The Opposition have set out their views and I think we have finally got some clarity. I think that Labour’s position is that we should not devolve any element of income tax to Wales, but that devolving 10p is not high enough and it should be 15p. In other words, it is saying that 15p is better than 10p, but nothing is better than anything. Labour also supports the Bill because it wants the Welsh Government to have access to borrowing powers that come as a consequence of having independent revenue streams, but it does not support the Welsh Government having access to the biggest independent revenue stream that might be available, which is income tax. I hope I have characterised Labour’s position correctly. It is simultaneously both for and against, on at least two different grounds.

With those points of clarification, I hope that the Government new clause and amendments will be accepted and that the Opposition amendments will not be pressed to a Division.

Question put and agreed to.

New clause 1 accordingly read a Second time, and added to the Bill.



New Clause 2

Infrastructure guarantees in Wales

‘Her Majesty may by Order in Council provide for the transfer of responsibility for providing infrastructure guarantees in Wales to the Welsh Ministers.’—(Jonathan Edwards.)

Brought up, and read the First time.

[Jonathan Edwards]

I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.

Wales Bill

Debate between Jonathan Edwards and David Gauke

Tuesday 6th May 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Gauke]

It is a great pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Roger, and to respond to the debate.

Part 2 of the Bill introduces a provision to devolve taxes to the Welsh Assembly. Clause 6 introduces a new part 4 to the Government of Wales Act 2006 and confers the required competence on the Assembly to legislate on devolved taxes, including their collection and management. Clause 6 also allows for further taxes to be devolved to the Assembly via an Order in Council and makes it clear that officials working in any body set up by the Assembly to administer the devolved taxes can be designated as civil servants if the Assembly so chooses. This applies whether the body only collects and manages devolved taxes, or is additionally responsible for the existing devolved subject of local government finance, including council tax and business rates.

Clause 7 makes amendments to the commissioners for revenue and customs Acts to allow Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs to administer devolved taxes on behalf of the Assembly. The clause also amends HMRC’s information powers to allow it to share information with the Welsh Government in relation to devolved taxes.

Clauses 14 to 16 and schedule 2 provide for a devolved tax to replace stamp duty land tax on land transactions in Wales, in line with the recommendation of the Silk commission. Clauses 17 and 18 provide for a devolved tax to replace the existing tax on disposals of waste to landfill sites in Wales, again as recommended by the Silk commission.

Let me address Government amendment 20. In devolving tax powers, our intention is that the Assembly should have a free hand in choosing how it wants its devolved taxes to be administered and by whom. We do, however, recognise that HMRC has many years—indeed, if one includes its predecessor organisations many centuries—of experience in administering taxes within the UK, so we want the Assembly to be able to use HMRC’s services for these purposes if it wishes to do so. The proposed legislation in clause 7 provides for this.

As set out in the Command Paper, though, we believe that this should be on the basis of mutual agreement. The Assembly should not be compelled to use HMRC to administer its devolved taxes, but neither should the commissioners for HMRC be compelled to take on this role. At present, the 2006 Act would allow an Act of the Assembly to modify an existing function of HMRC or confer a new function on HMRC without the consent of the UK Government.

Amendment 20, therefore, amends parts 2 and 3 of schedule 7 to the 2006 Act to make it clear that the Assembly can only confer functions on HMRC and, once conferred, modify those functions if they relate to a devolved tax and the Treasury consents to it. The amendment ensures that the Assembly has the option of using HMRC to administer its devolved taxes, but puts appropriate safeguards in place for the UK Government in recognition of the vital role HMRC plays in collecting tax throughout the UK. I therefore hope that hon. Members will support the amendment.

[Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) (PC)]

Will the Minister give us any idea of how long he expects the process of seeking the Treasury’s consent to take, and how long it will be before the Welsh Government can use whatever powers it decides to confer?

[Mr Gauke]

All I can say at this stage is that we would consider any such request in good faith. We want to work in a constructive manner, and I believe that the UK Government have a record of doing that when dealing with the Welsh Government. Our amendment certainly does not constitute an attempt to delay matters. The Assembly has the option of using HMRC, but it is not compelled to do so. We think it reasonable, if the Welsh Government wish to use HMRC, for its commissioners and the UK Government to make a proper assessment of the overall impact on the UK.

Wales Bill

Debate between Jonathan Edwards and David Gauke

Wednesday 30th April 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Gauke]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend because he takes me neatly on to the next line of my speech.

Amendments 1 to 4, which were tabled by Plaid Cymru, relate to the single Welsh rate of income tax—the so-called lockstep system. Fundamentally, income tax devolution must work within the integrated UK-wide income tax system. It must work for Wales by increasing the accountability of the Assembly and the Welsh Government, and it must work for the UK by maintaining the stability of the tax system.

Following a thorough and robust assessment of the Silk commission recommendations, we have determined that that would be most effectively achieved through a single Welsh rate of income tax that applied to all bands. There are two main reasons for that. First, the pooling and redistribution of tax revenues is a key feature of our fiscal model and ensures that wealth is shared among the regions and countries of the UK. The income tax structure is a key mechanism for achieving wealth redistribution. It is surely right, therefore, that UK-wide redistribution is decided at the UK level. The lockstep ensures that that will continue to be the case.

Secondly, although there are many benefits of tax devolution, it is not without risk. Specifically, we need to minimise the potential for harmful tax competition, increased opportunities for tax avoidance and evasion, and higher administrative burdens. It is therefore crucial that when we devolve taxes, we do so in a way that minimises those risks. In particular, the Government have consistently been clear that tax devolution should not benefit one part of the UK to the detriment of another. Tax devolution is not about moving economic activity from one area to another, but about empowering the devolved Administrations to generate additional growth and increasing their accountability by linking their budgets to their decisions. That incentivises the devolved Administrations and increases their accountability to the people, in this case in Wales.

Without the lockstep, the Welsh Government could substantially lower the rates of tax for the upper bands in Wales without making any change to the basic rate. That would be a considerable incentive for high earners to move across the border, which would benefit Wales, but would be to the detriment of the UK as a whole. Instead, the lockstep system will enable the Welsh Government to vary the levels of tax and spending in Wales, but the size of any differences will be unlikely to lead to tax competition. For example, they would be similar to the existing differences between the levels of council tax in neighbouring local authorities in Wales.

Devolving an element of income tax is therefore best achieved using the lockstep system. That will enable us to deliver substantial benefits to Wales, while continuing to redistribute wealth throughout the income tax system and minimise the risk of tax competition. I hope that I have helped hon. Members to understand our rationale for the lockstep system. I therefore ask them not to press amendments 1 to 4.

[Jonathan Edwards]

rose—

[Mr Gauke]

Perhaps the hon. Gentleman will take this opportunity to say that he will not press those amendments.

[Jonathan Edwards]

Does the hon. Gentleman not understand that he has contradicted himself? Indeed, the whole Wales Bill is contradictory. He is arguing that the powers are needed to incentivise the Welsh Government to develop economic growth, but he is placing a lockstep on those powers, making it impossible to use them. It is essentially a handcuff on those powers. There is a huge contradiction in what he is saying.

[Mr Gauke]

I do not accept that the powers are impossible to use. One can debate whether the rates should be varied, but the fact that there will be greater accountability will benefit Wales as a whole. We must balance the improvement in accountability in Wales with the difficulties that might arise with tax competition in the higher rates, which would be likely to damage the tax base in the UK as a whole. That is why we proceeded with a lockstep.

On amendment 6, tabled by the hon. Member for Pontypridd, I assure the Committee that the Government always consider the impacts of potential policy options and keep policies under review. An assessment of the potential impacts of devolving elements of income tax to the Welsh Assembly is summarised in the documents accompanying the introduction of the Wales Bill, in particular the Command Paper and the impact assessment. That assessment explains how the proposed system of income tax devolution achieves the key benefits identified by the Silk commission, increasing the accountability of the Assembly and Welsh Government and providing flexibility over the levels of tax and spending in Wales, while also minimising the risks of tax competition in the UK whereby significantly different tax rates could affect the behaviour of people living close to the border.

The Government’s assessment of the Silk commission’s proposals look closely at the potential for harmful tax competition in the UK, particularly given the populous border between England and Wales. As a result of that work, the Government rejected a system of three independent Welsh rates of income tax, instead proposing the lockstep system. As I have previously explained, that system specifically helps to minimise the risk of harmful tax competition in the UK. I hope hon. Members agree that the assessment we have undertaken is suitably robust, and that they are reassured by our commitment to keep the policy under review. Clause 22 requires the Government to report annually on the implementation and operation of the finance provisions of the Bill, so we will keep Parliament informed in that regard. On that basis I hope that hon. Members will not press amendment 6.

Amendment 16 was tabled by my hon. Friend the Member for Forest of Dean (Mr Harper) as recommended in the Silk commission’s report of November 2012, and clause 8 provides for the Comptroller and Auditor General to report directly to the National Assembly for Wales on HMRC’s administration of the Welsh rate of income tax. That will provide independent assurance to the Assembly on HMRC’s performance in administering this tax. The Comptroller and Auditor General currently reports to Parliament on HMRC’s administration of its business, including the operation of the UK’s income tax system. Should the Welsh rate of income tax be introduced, it will be operated as part of the UK income tax system. The NAO would therefore be able to report to Parliament in relation to the Welsh rate as part of its existing remit, and clause 8 ensures that reporting to the Welsh Assembly on the Welsh rate will additionally fall within the NAO’s remit.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Gauke]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for that point and I hope I can reassure him. There already exist mechanisms for scrutiny in relation to the Welsh rate by Parliament through existing vires. HMRC’s accounts would contain specific information on the Welsh rate, and they will continue to be laid before Parliament. Hon. Members will be presented with the levels of spending incurred by HMRC in administering the Welsh rate and the amounts of revenue collected. I believe that those existing channels provide an appropriate level of scrutiny for hon. Members in relation to the Welsh rate, and I hope that addresses my hon. Friend’s point.

I also think it right for additional insurance to be provided to the Assembly via the Comptroller and Auditor General’s report, and we anticipate that that report would be produced to a timetable similar to that of the wider report to Parliament on HMRC’s accounts. No doubt my hon. Friend will shortly contribute to the debate, but I have set out the existing mechanisms for scrutiny that will be available to Members of this Parliament, and I hope he is reassured.

On amendments 38 and 39, we have been working closely with the Welsh Government on Welsh funding. In particular, the Government recognise there has been convergence between the levels of funding in Wales and England since devolution, and that this is a significant concern in Wales. As a result, in October 2012 we agreed to implement a joint process to review the levels of funding in Wales and England in advance of the spending review. If convergence is forecast to occur over the course of the spending review period, options will be discussed to address the issue in a fair and affordable manner, based on a shared understanding of all the available evidence.

In advance of the 2013 spending round, a joint review was therefore undertaken by the two Governments and the outcome set out in a written ministerial statement. The review determined that funding levels are not expected to converge during the period to 2015-16, and in fact an element of divergence is forecast to occur. The review also determined that relative funding levels in Wales are within the range recommended by the Holtham commission.

These arrangements assure that we have a shared understanding of funding levels in Wales and a process is in place to consider options should convergence be forecast to resume. In no way would the devolution of income tax have any impact on these arrangements, and it is certainly not the case that income tax devolution would lock in the current level of funding. These arrangements therefore provide a firm basis for proceeding with the new financial powers in the Bill, and I hope that hon. Members will therefore not press amendments 38 and 39. I hope that my comments have been of assistance to the Committee, and that clauses 8 and 9 and the Government amendments will be added to the Bill this evening.

[Jonathan Edwards]

I wish to speak to amendments 1, 2, 3 and 4, in my name and the names of my colleagues in Plaid Cymru. We intend to press amendment 1 to a Division at the appropriate time.

The lockstep income tax power that is on offer in this Bill is not the one recommended by the Silk commission. We see two ways forward to preserve the integrity of the original Silk proposals. Either the lockstep income tax power should proceed without a referendum, which amendment 1 would achieve, or the Bill should be amended as per the Silk commission recommendation on income tax, which amendments 2, 3 and 4 seek to do, thereby restoring the need for a referendum, as Silk envisaged, on an income tax sharing arrangement without a lockstep.

I remind hon. Members that their parties, through their representatives on the commission, agreed to the Silk recommendations. Indeed, the Labour party’s representative on the commission was the esteemed former Assembly Member, Sue Essex, who is of course a former Finance Minister in the Welsh Government. The purpose of amendment 1 is to ensure that the referendum is on the ability of Wales to vary each income tax band individually, rather than the lockstep that is proposed in the Bill.

I believe that we should not have a referendum on these powers. The borrowing powers that will accompany the income tax powers would be essential to move the economy forward. Capacity will increase with the income tax powers. However, I accept the position of my party that a referendum should be held on the original Silk recommendations. In my view, the principle of fiscal devolution has already been conceded in this Bill—we will discuss the minor taxes next week—so the case for a referendum is not very strong.

Amendments 2, 3 and 4 would alter the Bill so that the lockstep is removed from the income tax power, giving Wales the ability to vary income tax band rates independently of each other, subject to a referendum, as per the original recommendation of the Silk commission. As the Bill stands, the lockstep on the ability to vary income tax in Wales means that all three bands can be moved up or down only in tandem, as is the case in Scotland. I hesitate to point out that those powers have never been used in Scotland, even though they have been available since devolution in 1999. Of course, the Silk recommendation was for the power to vary income tax band rates independently of each other. In reality the lockstep kills the ability to vary income tax at all, which strengthens the argument that I put to the Minister in an intervention—the lockstep hinders what the Government claim to be trying to achieve in the Bill, which is to incentivise the Welsh Government to develop their economy. Without the ability to introduce innovative income tax policy, how are they meant to achieve that?

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Jonathan Edwards and David Gauke

Tuesday 29th April 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Gauke]

My hon. Friend has asked a very good question. As I have said, the Budget doubled UK Export Finance’s direct lending programme. Moreover, earlier this month we announced a £100 million extension of the advanced manufacturing supply chain initiative, and a £1 billion package to support the Aerospace Technology Institute was announced in the 2013 Budget. The Government are working hard to ensure that we secure the growth that is required by small and medium-sized enterprises in my hon. Friend’s constituency.

[Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) (PC)]

The coalition Government promised to rebalance the economy on both a geographical and a sectoral basis, but little progress has been made in increasing business investment and exports as a percentage of GDP. Does not the low level of business investment—which is among the worst in the world—indicate that the business community is not entirely convinced by the UK Government’s economic policy?

[Mr Gauke]

The reality is that business investment is increasing, by 8% this year and by 9% next year. We have also just seen some very good figures relating to manufacturing growth over the last year. The Government continue to work to secure a balanced recovery, with the support of a number of measures in the Budget, but we are already making very good progress.

Finance (No.2) Bill

Debate between Jonathan Edwards and David Gauke

Tuesday 8th April 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Gauke]

I suspect that my hon. Friend may well be right, so I am grateful to him on that point.

Clause 1 will help the Government to achieve our aim of a tax system that is fair for everyone, while rewarding those who want to work hard and progress. We will achieve those goals by cutting income tax for the vast majority of income tax payers, including those in greatest need of support, while making sure that the tax system remains easy to understand. I again stress that the reports proposed in amendment 4 and new clause 4 are entirely unnecessary. The impact of reducing the additional rate of income tax has been examined in great detail. The 50p rate was ineffective and meant risking the recovery for which everyone in this country is working hard. I therefore commend clause 1 and urge the House to reject the amendment and the new clause.

[Jonathan Edwards]

We have had a very interesting debate. We heard excellent speeches from the hon. Members for Redcar (Ian Swales), for Edinburgh East (Sheila Gilmore) and for Ogmore (Huw Irranca-Davies), and my good friend the hon. Member for East Antrim (Sammy Wilson), as well as from both Front Benchers.

My new clause 4 is rather harmless, if I may say so. It calls for a review that might make the case for the Government’s policy—they might want the evidence to back it up—or the case for my party’s policy of a 50p top rate. With all three Westminster parties signed up to continuing austerity, whoever wins the next Westminster election, we need transparency to ensure that the wider public are confident that everybody is paying their fair share. I regret that because the Government have not accepted my new clause, I will have to divide the House.

Question put, That the clause be read a Second time.

National Insurance Contributions Bill

Debate between Jonathan Edwards and David Gauke

Monday 4th November 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Gauke]

My hon. Friend raises an important point. I pay tribute to the work that she does on the all-party parliamentary group on micro-businesses. She provides a very strong voice in the House for smaller businesses, and she is absolutely right to do so. She is right to draw the House’s attention to the FSB survey. We have already talked about the contribution that the measure will make to the taking on of more staff, but where more staff are not taken on, there will very often be investment in the business, which will clearly help it to expand.

The Bill cuts the jobs tax for 1.25 million employers and takes 450,000 of them out of employers’ national insurance contributions altogether, making it less expensive for businesses to take on new staff, so the Bill will help job creation. It contains four main measures. We have touched on the employment allowance. I will also say something this afternoon about the fact that the Bill gives effect to the general anti-abuse rule on national insurance contributions. It also amends the Social Security Contributions and Benefits Act 1992 to allow regulations to be made on the certification of non-UK employers of oil and gas workers, and makes changes in connection with two elements of the partnerships review carried out by Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs. The Bill also makes a small number of technical corrections that I am happy to take the House through, should there be demand for that; if there is not, I am sure that we can cover them in some depth in Committee.

Returning to the employment allowance, as part of our efforts to remove barriers to growth for businesses and to equip the UK economy to compete in the global race, the Chancellor announced in this year’s Budget the creation of a new employment allowance, as my hon. Friend the Member for Dover (Charlie Elphicke) pointed out. It will take effect from 6 April next year. Businesses, charities and community amateur sports clubs in the UK will be entitled to a £2,000-a-year allowance towards their employer national insurance contribution liability.

The employment allowance builds on action that the Government have taken to make the tax system more competitive, and to encourage growth. That includes cutting corporation tax, increasing the rate of the research and development tax credit for small and medium-sized enterprises, increasing the annual investment allowance to £250,000, and giving a cash-flow benefit to those who invest in plant and machinery.

The objective of the employment allowance is to help businesses with the cost of employing their staff by reducing their employer class 1 national insurance contributions bill each year. It will support thousands of small businesses that aspire to grow, perhaps by hiring their first employee or expanding their work force, as well as those already employing others, or facing temporary cash-flow problems.

[Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) (PC)]

In the emergency Budget that followed the last Westminster election, the Treasury said that it wanted to rebalance the economy geographically, but the only measure that we have seen to date is the reduction in employers’ national insurance contributions for companies outside London and the south-east. The employment allowance is a UK-wide measure. Does that indicate that the Treasury has given up on its ambitions geographically to rebalance the UK economy?

[Mr Gauke]

No, not at all. There is a whole host of measures, including the regional growth fund, and there is some really good news; exports are up significantly in the west midlands and the north-east in particular. We are taking steps to strengthen industries up and down the country. The hon. Gentleman touches on the regional employers’ NICs holiday; let me turn to that, because I suspect that the policy will feature heavily in the arguments that we hear from Opposition Front Benchers.

Finance Bill

Debate between Jonathan Edwards and David Gauke

Tuesday 2nd July 2013 Commons Chamber

[Jonathan Edwards]

The Minister will be aware that the Silk commission on Wales stated that the Finance Bill would be the appropriate legislative vehicle to implement its findings. Those findings have not been implemented in the Bill, so what legislative vehicle will the Government use to implement the Silk report when they respond?

[Mr Gauke]

As the hon. Gentleman says, the Government will respond to the report in due course. Further details will be provided at that point.

On simplification, we continue to shape the tax landscape. A tax system should be easy to administer and to understand. To that end, the Government set up the independent Office of Tax Simplification in 2010. I pay tribute to the invaluable work that it has done. The Bill takes forward the recommendations from its review of small business tax. It introduces two optional simpler income tax schemes for small incorporated businesses and a new time-limited disincorporation relief for small businesses that feel that a corporate form is burdensome. Small businesses make a vital contribution to the UK economy and public finances, and these measures recognise that contribution. We have acted to provide certainty and clarity in other areas. The statutory residence test and the reforms to ordinary residence are a significant and welcome simplification of the tax code, if not a shortening of it.

Many of the measures in the Bill have been subject to extensive consultation and scrutiny—processes that are entrenched in the Government’s approach to making tax policy. The statutory residence test was consulted on three times between summer 2011 and February 2013. The Chartered Institute of Taxation said that that was a

“good example of how to make good tax law”

and we would agree.

The Government have shown their commitment to greater transparency and broadening the range of impacts that they consider. For the Finance Bill 2013 we published more than 400 pages of draft legislation, and we are grateful for the 400 or so responses we received. Through such engagement we have considered the views of interested groups and taxpayers, and we considered them further in Public Bill Committee with more than 49 hours of scrutiny—to some of us, it may have felt longer.

I thank all those involved in the Bill, whether officials, interested parties, parliamentary counsel, my hon. Friends the Economic Secretary to the Treasury and the Financial Secretary to the Treasury, Opposition Members, and Back Benchers, who all contributed to the scrutiny of the Bill. This Finance Bill delivers real reform, supports business and growth, upholds principles of fairness, rewards work, and demonstrates the Government’s commitment to creating a tax system that reduces the deficit and builds a prosperous economy. I commend the Bill to the House.

Income Tax

Debate between Jonathan Edwards and David Gauke

Wednesday 28th November 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Gauke]

The hon. Gentleman tempts me down that route, but we have an autumn statement next week on that matter, when we will hear the OBR numbers.

[Jonathan Edwards]

Obviously, my party does not agree with this measure and voted against it following the Budget statement, but, if the Treasury intends to pursue this line of argument, when will it drop the rate to 40p?

[Mr Gauke]

I admire the hon. Gentleman’s ambition. To be fair, he did not make this point, but, when Labour voted on this matter in the Finance Bill debates, effectively they would have got us to a 40p rate—but there we go. It was HMRC’s assessment that a reduction from 50p to 45p would be relatively inexpensive, and, given the damage the 50p rate was doing to our competitiveness, we believed it would be well worth doing. Of course, all taxes are under review, but the 45p rate remains in place.

Finance (No. 4) Bill

Debate between Jonathan Edwards and David Gauke

Wednesday 18th April 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Gauke]

May I help the hon. Gentleman? The motion on which he voted against the Government related to the tax charges for 2013-14. With apologies to the hon. Member for Pontypridd (Owen Smith), it would not have wiped out all the tax rates for this year. It was specifically for next year. The hon. Member for Carmarthen East and Dinefwr (Jonathan Edwards) is right. It would not have had the impact that the hon. Member for Pontypridd suggested.

[Jonathan Edwards]

I am grateful for that clarification.

The idea that the Tories would offer a tax break to millionaires would surprise nobody in my constituency—in fact, they would expect it—but that Labour would abstain after announcing it would vote against it has led to a great deal of confusion. I have had a lot of fun on the doorstep in the past few weeks explaining that, while campaigning for the local authority elections. It is similar to the way the official Opposition announced the policy of a temporary cut in VAT last June, then two weeks later abstained on the Finance Bill when I and my colleagues proposed such a measure. A lack of consistency and clarity on economic matters explains why it is so easy for the Government to continue to pin the blame on the official Opposition for the UK’s economic mess in spite of the flawed and ideological cuts programme which is destroying the fabric of the economy.

Finance Bill

Debate between Jonathan Edwards and David Gauke

Tuesday 28th June 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Gauke]

The fact is, the economy grew in the first quarter of this year, after the VAT increase, unemployment fell this year at the fastest rate since 2000, and borrowing is falling. The plan is working. I am afraid that Opposition attempts to talk the economy down are not working. In difficult international conditions, the economy is growing.

Raising the rate of VAT was a difficult decision to take, but it was the right decision, and the responsible thing to do. The Opposition proposal is reckless: an unfunded VAT cut to the tune of £12 billion a year, and £51 billion over the Parliament. How do the Opposition propose to fill that gap? Would they revert to their tax on jobs? Do they think that that would stimulate growth?

Deficit reduction, in which the VAT increase plays an important role, is a prerequisite for sustained economic growth. At the June Budget and in the spending review, the Chancellor set out a credible plan to reduce the deficit. According the OBR, the plan is consistent with medium-term growth, achieving the mandate in 2014-15, a year earlier than required. The International Monetary Fund continues to back the Government’s consolidation plans, and to advise against changing course. It considered whether it is time to adjust macro-economic policy, and its conclusion is that the answer is no.

Events in Europe and around the world in the past few weeks have shown how important it is for countries with large deficits, such as the UK, to have a credible plan to deal with their debts. The Government have a credible plan. The British economy is recovering, output is growing and new private sector jobs are being created. We have set out why we have made those changes and explained what is required. We are putting our economy on a path of sustainable growth. I urge hon. Members not to press the new clauses to Divisions, and to support the Government’s plans for this country.

[Jonathan Edwards]

We have had a very interesting debate, although I find myself somewhat confused by the voting intentions of hon. Members. We will see in a few moments.

I shall not press new clause 6 to a Division, because it proposes a permanent reduction in VAT. New clause 9, however, proposes a temporary reduction, no matter what Labour Front Benchers say, and I will press that to a Division. Those who do not join us in the Lobby for the Division on new clause 9 will not be able to say with any credibility that they oppose the January VAT increase.

I beg to ask leave to withdraw the motion.

Clause, by leave, withdrawn.

New Clause 9

Value Added Tax (Change of Rate) Order 2011

‘(1) The Chancellor of the Exchequer shall make an order under the powers conferred by sections 2(2) and 21(7) of the Value Added Tax Act 1994 that in section 2(1) of the Value Added Tax Act 1994 (rate of VAT), the rate of tax charged by virtue of that section shall be decreased by 12.5 per cent.

(2) In section 21(4) (value of imported goods) of the Value Added Tax Act 1994 for “25” substitute “28.58”.

(3) This Order shall be known as The Value Added Tax (Change of Rate) Order 2011 and shall come into force on 30 August 2011.’.—(Jonathan Edwards.)

Brought up, and read the First time.

Question put, That the clause be read a Second time.

Scotland Bill

Debate between Jonathan Edwards and David Gauke

Tuesday 21st June 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Gauke]

It gives me great pleasure to return to the House to discuss the Scotland Bill after the Committee debate in March.

The first group of amendments on today’s selection list is fairly extensive and addresses several different aspects of the Bill’s finance package. I will set out why we have tabled Government amendments and why we will not accept the non-Government amendments.

In Committee, we debated the definition of a Scottish taxpayer for the Scottish rate of income tax. I said that the Government would table a new clause to apply the same definition to the Scottish variable rate, in response to one of the recommendations of the Scottish Parliament’s Scotland Bill Committee. The reworked definition of a Scottish taxpayer for the new Scottish rate of income tax is a significant simplification. I appreciate that it is unlikely that the Scottish variable rate will ever be invoked. Nevertheless, without the amendment, there would be two separate definitions of a Scottish taxpayer in place at the same time. There is potential for practical difficulties for taxpayers, employers and their professional representatives, who might need to familiarise themselves with one definition for the years up to 2015-16, only to have to switch to a different definition for subsequent years. That is entirely unnecessary.

Applying the definition of a Scottish taxpayer that has been developed for the Scottish rate of income tax for the purposes of the Scottish variable rate will help smooth any transitional issues, and will also make it easier for people to understand whether they are classed as a Scottish taxpayer. The Scottish Parliament’s Scotland Bill Committee rightly recommended the change, with which the UK Government very much agree, and I commend the new clause to hon. Members.

On a previous occasion, my hon. Friend the Member for Milton Keynes South (Iain Stewart) raised a particular query. He has tabled amendment 24, about which he intends to speak later. I will respond to the issues that he raises after he has had an opportunity to set out his thoughts on that.

Government amendment 31 would make a small, technical change, to which I hope the House can agree. Section 989 of the Income Tax Act 2007 contains several definitions, which apply for the purposes of income tax legislation. It includes definitions of the basic, higher and additional rate of income tax. They refer to the rate of income tax set by the UK Parliament in the year in question. Government amendment 31 would extend those definitions to include the rates applicable to a Scottish taxpayer. As I said, it is a minor drafting amendment, and I do not anticipate its proving too controversial.

The purpose of Government amendment 15 is to correct a technical fault with the Bill so that it is consistent with the Government’s policy intentions as set out in the Command Paper, which states that the Scottish Government will be able to borrow to manage the difference between forecast and outturn tax receipts. However, as I explained in our Committee debate on 14 March, the Bill as it currently stands enables the Scottish Government to borrow to manage this difference only for fully devolved taxes, and not the Scottish rate of income tax. That is a technical fault, which the amendment corrects. I hope that it will be accepted.

Let me deal with Government amendments 32 to 35. The purpose of Government amendment 32 is to introduce a power, which will enable the Government to amend in future the way in which Scottish Ministers can borrow, including by way of bond sales, without the need for further primary legislation. The Bill gives Scottish Ministers a new power to borrow, by way of loan, from 2015-16 up to £2.7 billion of total debt, £2.2. billion of which can be used to fund capital expenditure.

The UK Parliament has an interest in ensuring that Scottish Ministers can borrow efficiently and sustainably because, although interest paid on any loans will be funded from the Scottish budget, it will be included in the UK fiscal aggregates. The Bill therefore gives Scottish Ministers the power to borrow in the most efficient and sustainable way—from the national loans fund, as recommended by the Calman commission. In addition, should Scottish Ministers so choose, the Bill gives them the power to borrow by way of commercial loan where that represents value for money.

Reports on the Scotland Bill by the Scottish Affairs Committee and the Scottish Parliament have recommended that Scottish Ministers should be granted additional borrowing powers—specifically, the power to issue bonds. The First Minister made the same points in his discussion with my right hon. Friends the Chancellor of the Exchequer and the Secretary of State for Scotland. The reports and discussions have highlighted the discrepancy between the powers of Scottish Ministers and local authorities, which already have the power to issue bonds.

So far, the main evidence that has been provided to the Government in support of Scottish Ministers issuing bonds is “because other bodies can do it”. However, with the exception of Transport for London, the vast majority of local authorities have not exercised those powers in recent history, not least because local authorities judge that they have access to more efficient and sustainable forms of borrowing.

The Government continue to believe that the case against bond issuance is clear cut, particularly in the medium term, given the uncertain outlook and challenging fiscal mandate. All the evidence suggests that further bond issuance would have a negative impact on the UK’s fiscal position.

In the context of the highest deficit since world war two, the Government would consider allowing Scottish Ministers to issue bonds in future only when that does not undermine the overall fiscal position, or have a negative impact on total UK borrowing. If a case is made that Scottish Ministers’ borrowing powers could be extended without undermining the overall UK fiscal position or increasing UK borrowing, the amendment that I am tabling today would allow changes to the borrowing powers of Scottish Ministers to take effect swiftly, by way of an order.

The Government have committed to conducting a review of the costs and benefits of bond issuance over other forms of borrowing to help inform any decision. The amendment would have the effect of, first and foremost, protecting the UK’s fiscal position by continuing to allow Scottish Ministers to access the most efficient and sustainable source of borrowing.

[Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) (PC)]

After the Bill has been passed, the Welsh Government will be the only political entity in the British state unable to borrow. Will the Exchequer Secretary address that matter quickly, rather than awaiting some prolonged Calman process, which the Government currently envisage?

Scotland Bill

Debate between Jonathan Edwards and David Gauke

Monday 14th March 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Gauke]

The point is that there would be a reduction in the block grant, because the revenues from the aggregates levy would be going to the Scottish Government. If it was subsequently found that the aggregates levy in its current form was not legal, either we would have to readjust the block grant or the Scottish Government would have to bear the shortfall.

I shall move on to amendment 57 and new clause 16. The Calman commission recommended the devolution of the UK’s air passenger duty, not a general power to tax air travel, which is what the amendment seeks. The UK Government are exploring changes to their aviation tax system, as stated in last year’s June Budget, and will look at devolution of this tax base in that future work. However, it is not appropriate to devolve aviation tax until these changes have been explored, with any major changes subject to consultation, and a decision on the future of UK aviation tax made. To do otherwise would mean that the Scottish Parliament would have to plan the future of their new tax without the context of the UK version. I would also like to answer the point about the process of a new tax. Clause 24(6) provides that any new tax would need to be approved by the Scottish Parliament, under section 80B of the Scotland Act 1998. That would clearly apply in these circumstances.

I turn to amendment 60 and new clause 17. The Calman commission recommended that corporation tax not be devolved. The Scottish Parliament has endorsed this, although it wants to stay engaged in any future discussions on corporation tax devolution. Both the Calman commission and the Scottish Parliament recognised very good reasons why not to devolve the tax. First, the Calman commission concluded that if comparable levels of public services were to be maintained, the scope for substantive reductions in the rate of corporation tax in Scotland was limited, unless the Scottish Government are able to increase revenues from other sources. As the hon. Member for Glasgow North said, under European law there will have to be a reduction in the block grant commensurate with the value of the reduction in the corporation tax rate.

Secondly, the commission also believed that the potential administrative impacts of such a move were significant. The creation of compliance costs to businesses operating on either side of the border, as well as the increased collection costs to the Government, would be undesirable in the present economic climate.

[Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) (PC)]

The Exchequer Secretary might be aware that the Conservative economics commission in Wales has advocated the setting of corporation tax at a regional level. What does he say to that?

[Mr Gauke]

We will consider that. At the moment, however, we are concerned with Scotland and Wales in particular. There is a slightly different issue with Northern Ireland, where the Government have not yet made a decision on the devolution of corporation tax. Clearly, however, the circumstances in Northern Ireland are different: it does not have a land border with the rest of the UK, but does have one with a country that has a substantially lower rate of corporation tax.

There are a number of detailed questions about how some of these tax matters will be addressed. Various points arose from last week’s Scottish Parliament report, and we will respond to those in due course. However, I am keen that the joint exchequer committee—that is the title suggested by the Scottish Parliament, and it is one we are happy to take onboard—which will consider these matters in some detail, meets as soon as possible after the Scottish elections and the formation of a Scottish Government. We can then discuss some of these matters and provide further details in the future.