Employment in Wales

Debate between Jonathan Edwards and Chris Ruane

Tuesday 27th January 2015 Westminster Hall

[Chris Ruane]

No!

Welsh local authorities are implementing cuts that in my county will see the closure of the pest control department, the ending of help with school uniforms for low-income families and the loss of jobs for those who help children with psychological problems. I do not blame the local authorities—not the officers, and not even the Tory councillors. The finger of blame has to point at those at the top of this Conservative Government, who decided that, of all the departments in the UK, local government should have the biggest cuts. They planned for 27% but have implemented 43%.

[Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) (PC)]

The hon. Gentleman is making a typically impassioned attack on the austerity policies of the Conservative party, and I agree with a lot of what he says. Will he explain why he and his colleagues voted for the Tory austerity charter only two weeks ago?

[Chris Ruane]

Cuts have to be made, but the tempo, pace and degree of cuts, and the ideology behind them, are the key issues. These are cuts for cuts’ sake, because the Conservative party believes in a low percentage expenditure of GDP on the public sector—an issue I will come to in a moment.

Wales Bill

Debate between Jonathan Edwards and Chris Ruane

Wednesday 30th April 2014 Commons Chamber

[Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) (PC)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Dr McCrea, and to speak to amendments 30 and 31, which appear in my name and those of my hon. Friend the Member for Arfon (Hywel Williams) and my right hon. Friend the Member for Dwyfor Meirionnydd (Mr Llwyd). They are both probing amendments and follow the spirit of the contributions by the hon. Members for Pontypridd (Owen Smith) and for Forest of Dean (Mr Harper).

We welcome the fact that we are discussing a piece of Wales-specific legislation. It is only three years since the remarkable referendum in 2011, when the people of Wales voted overwhelmingly in favour of full political sovereignty over the political fields that were devolved to the National Assembly. I have no hesitation in saying that that was one of the proudest days of my political career. The desktop on the computer in my Westminster office has a picture of the referendum count in Carmarthenshire, with the yes votes piled up proudly on the yes table, and a few bundles of no votes on the no table.

[Chris Ruane (Vale of Clwyd) (Lab)]

Get a life!

[Jonathan Edwards]

Well, apart from the Swans staying up this year—another great achievement, which I know the hon. Member for Pontypridd (Owen Smith) shares with me.

Most striking about the referendum result was that it was matched across every county in Wales—apart from Monmouthshire, which only just voted no. When the history of Wales is written, that result will be recorded very strongly when compared with the referendums of ’79 and ’97. It was an earthquake moment, and I remember the shell-shocked faces of many Unionists down in Westminster the week after that historic occasion.

The nature of the game has therefore changed, and subsequent opinion polling clearly indicates that the people of Wales want greater control over their lives. I think they are far ahead of the political class at the moment, and I even include Plaid Cymru in that context. Today we are discussing in historical terms a further milestone on the path towards Welsh self-government, with, for the first time, a national legislature being empowered to have an element of fiscal powers. Needless to say, the Bill does not go anywhere near as far as my party would want in terms of powers for Wales, but as an historian in a previous life I can safely say that when the history of Wales is written, this period will be seen as one of rapid political development for our nation.

As we celebrate the 20th anniversary of the great indie band from Manchester, Oasis, and its first studio album in ’94, I am reminded of one of its best songs, “Little by Little”. I hope sincerely that when we conclude our Committee deliberations we will not be “looking back in anger”—a reference to another of its great songs. Today is therefore another landmark in the political development of our country.

The context of the Bill is interesting in itself, and I get the impression that the Secretary of State would rather walk through fire than deal with the Bill today. I am sure he sees it as a hospital pass from his predecessor. The Bill results, of course, from the UK Government-sponsored Silk commission, in particular part I, and I pay tribute to Sir Paul and his fellow commissioners for their work on both stages of the report. As I said, as a party our evidence to both parts of the commission called for far greater progress than was finally agreed, but we were prepared to compromise to seek agreement and make progress. It is therefore disappointing that we find ourselves presenting amendments in Committee, and endeavouring to preserve the integrity of the Silk commission.

Unfortunately, the Wales Bill has torpedoed the recommendations of the Silk commission, particularly in relation to the lockstep on the income tax powers, which we will discuss later. Even more regrettably, it seems that Labour’s amendments to the Bill, rather than strengthening it as we seek to do, aim to place further roadblocks and move us even further from what the Silk commission proposed.

--- Later in debate ---

[Jonathan Edwards]

I do not want to get into a debate about independence, but the most detailed polling ever undertaken on devolutionary attitudes was by the Silk commission in the second part of its work. It suggested that 20% of people in Wales wanted devolved defence and foreign affairs, and those would be the two last powers that would ever be devolved.

Regardless of the result in Scotland, the constitutional landscape of the UK will change considerably. If Scotland votes yes, that will be the end of the British state as we know it. If it votes no, the likelihood is that it will get significantly more powers, with 90% approval ratings for a devolution-max settlement that would devolve everything apart from defence and foreign affairs. Is the hon. Gentleman seriously saying that the people of Wales would accept the settlement in the Bill if Scotland were to get significantly more powers, even in the event of a no vote?

[Chris Ruane]

If the vote in Scotland is close but ultimately a victory for no, does the hon. Gentleman anticipate that the SNP will come back for another vote, and another after that, and that it will not be so much a referendum as a neverendum?

[Jonathan Edwards]

As long the people of Scotland have those aspirations and vote for an SNP Government, I imagine that they would want to ask the question on subsequent occasions, but that is a debate for another time. Considering the way in which the opinion polls are moving, it seems that the question might be settled this time.

--- Later in debate ---

[Chris Ruane]

The Ryhl Journal.

[Jonathan Edwards]

And the Rhyl Journal, although I am not an avid reader, I must admit.

Most people get their political news from London papers. If we have a Westminster election and an Assembly election in close proximity, there is a great danger that the issues for which the national Assembly is responsible will be dropped completely. The Minister has indicated that there is no intention to bring the elections closer and that there are protections in the Bill to ensure that there will be a gap of at least a year between them, so I am happy not to press my two amendments.

On the Labour amendments, the Electoral Reform Society has lobbied extensively against amendment 9, arguing that

“good governance and greater stability is achieved through fixed terms and this should not be a power that is given to the Executive to decide.”

It points out that, as the electoral system for the Assembly makes coalitions more likely, fixed terms also provide stability and security for parties of government. Two of the four terms in the Assembly have seen coalition Governments, so I agree with that point.

Amendment 10 appears to have been drafted with the aim of ensuring that Assembly and Westminster elections are not held on the same day. I would have been happy to support that if it had been pressed to a vote.

Fuel Poverty (Wales)

Debate between Jonathan Edwards and Chris Ruane

Tuesday 19th March 2013 Westminster Hall

[Chris Ruane]

I can do it quite easily and I will do it again. Whichever way the hon. Gentleman slices it, the Labour Government introduced a rate of 50%, but the Conservatives and their Liberal allies have taken it down to 45%. That means additional money in the pockets of millionaires and billionaires, and less money in the pockets of the most vulnerable. That is Robin Hood in reverse; it is Robbing Hood—taking money from the poorest and giving it to the richest.

I do not want to sound too negative, so let me say what could be done. Local authorities need to work with the Department of Energy and Climate Change and the Department for Communities and Local Government, and more widely across the Government, to ensure that they play a full role in encouraging collective switching, because that process can lead to big discounts of £200. DECC needs to promote that more with local authorities, because people are not switching at the rate they should be. There might be many reasons for that. For example, an elderly person may be going blind or have early-onset dementia, while poorer people may be functionally illiterate or have no access to computers. There is a whole swathe of people who should be switching but are not, so local authorities should be co-operating with DECC and other Departments to organise collective switching.

Local authorities should introduce community energy initiatives, perhaps with the encouragement of central Government grants. A lot can be done by local authorities. In my constituency, Denbighshire county council used £35 million of prudential borrowing to upgrade fully its 3,000 council houses with double glazing, gas and insulation—it did a fantastic job. It also co-operated with me and Crispin Jones, the director of Eaga Partnership in Wales, to connect 125 former Ministry of Defence soldiers’ and officers’ houses to the gas grid.

[Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) (PC)]

I congratulate the hon. Gentleman on securing this important debate. Before I was a Member, I used to work for Citizens Advice. As part of that role, I was strategic adviser for National Energy Action Cymru, and I also served on the Welsh Government’s fuel poverty advisory group. It was of great interest to us that Wales is a net exporter of electricity, producing nearly twice the amount we need for ourselves, yet we have the highest levels of fuel poverty. Can the hon. Gentleman explain that discrepancy?

[Chris Ruane]

I will come on to that point, and there is a particular north Wales angle to the debate. I pay tribute to the hon. Gentleman’s work with Citizens Advice and on fuel poverty.

A lot can be done by local government, but more can be done by national Government. The Labour Government introduced the winter fuel allowance and helped pensioners in the middle of winter by giving them £200 or £300 to pay their gas and electricity bills. That Government also reduced VAT to 15%, but the Conservative Government, with their allies, increased it to 20%. In 2001, Labour introduced the home energy efficiency scheme. Over the past 12 years in Wales, £150 million was spent insulating and improving the energy efficiency of 127,000 properties. A property that has been improved can cut its gas and electricity bills by up to 25%.

Electoral Registration and Administration Bill

Debate between Jonathan Edwards and Chris Ruane

Wednesday 27th June 2012 Commons Chamber

[Chris Ruane]

I will come on to that point when I conclude my speech, but I share my hon. Friend’s concern.

There was a lack of co-operation at the start of this process. The Government were sure that they were absolutely right and that the independent Electoral Commission’s figures were nonsense. They initially dismissed the concerns of civic society, including Unlock Democracy, the Electoral Reform Society and Age Concern.

We can compare the Government’s approach with Labour’s attitude on the constitutional changes that we made during our 13 years in government. People may say that we did not do enough to get those who were unregistered back on the register. I would agree with them entirely, because I was knocking on Ministers’ doors—and Prime Ministers’ doors—to say that there was a problem, but it was not properly addressed. However, Labour cannot be accused of using those changes for party political advantage.

[Jonathan Edwards]

Given that the hon. Gentleman raises that point, I refer him to the Government of Wales Act 2006, because there was not much cross-party support for the reforms that were led by the right hon. Member for Neath (Mr Hain).

[Chris Ruane]

Let me set out a list of the constitutional changes that Labour implemented and the way in which we approached them. We changed the position in 2001 so that if someone did not put their name down for two years on the trot, they were taken off the register. That was the cause of the first big drop. Some 1 million to 2 million people came off the register as a result of the Labour Government’s action, and they were our voters. I thought it was daft, but we did it, even though it went against us.

In Scotland, a consensus was in place five years prior to devolution, meaning that everything had been squared with all sections of society. We introduced proportional representation for European elections when we did not need to, and we went from four Labour MEPs in Wales down to one.