Budget Resolutions

Debate between John Penrose and Liam Byrne

Monday 1st November 2021 Commons Chamber

[Liam Byrne]

I want to clarify that point, because it is potentially quite significant. The characteristic of a Lawson-esque tax system is, of course, that capital is taxed at the same rate as income. Is that what the hon. Gentleman is advocating?

[John Penrose]

I am indeed advocating that all income should be taxed equally. It is a Lawson-esque idea; the right hon. Gentleman is absolutely right. The reason why it is so essential, and why Nigel Lawson had this right, is that the whole point of it is that it creates work incentives for everybody, because they know they are going to be treated fairly. It also means that we have a system that has legitimacy, because it does not matter who has the best lobbyists or the best campaigners; everybody knows we have a nice, simple, flat, straightforward tax system, and everybody knows where they stand. Nigel Lawson was right about this.

I hope that the Chancellor’s Budget speech last week was the first step in what I think will be a long and difficult but ultimately incredibly worthwhile journey in that respect. I hope that this is the beginning of something important, something exciting, and something that is ultimately fairer and more just but also economically far more literate, because it creates a situation where it always pays to work, it always pays to save and it always pays for people to try to get themselves out of benefits by taking extra hours if they possibly can. It creates a situation where those work incentives are always there.