Broadcasting
Debate between John Nicolson and David Lammy
Mr Lammy
I will not be tempted into talking about the BBC’s coverage during that debate, but given the salaries paid to senior executives and talent, and much has been said about that today, the BBC’s real understanding of the true fabric of this country beyond west and north London, where so many of the executives seem to live—I say this as a representative of a north London constituency—and the way in which it portrays things that are often quite difficult and reaches into places that are quite at odds with each other are genuinely important. The BBC does that not just in its news coverage, but in the sorts of documentaries and dramas it commissions and in the sorts of faces that become those that so many British people from different backgrounds allow into their front rooms during the day.
We debated diversity in the BBC for the first time on the Floor of the House back in April, and I welcome the new public purpose in the draft royal charter, published last month, which unambiguously commits the BBC to
“reflect, represent and serve the diverse communities of all of the United Kingdom’s nations and regions”.
I am quite sure that, right across the House, we are celebrating that move. May I congratulate the right hon. Member for Wantage (Mr Vaizey) on his work on diversity during his time as the Minister for Culture and the Digital Economy? I really enjoyed being a Culture Minister in a previous Government, and it was my belief that there would never be a Minister as good as me, but it turns out that there was.
The draft BBC framework agreement states that the
“BBC must make arrangements for promoting…equality of opportunity”,
irrespective of gender, disability, race or sexual orientation. Crucially, the draft agreement also sets out that the BBC must publish an annual report on the effectiveness of its policies for promoting equality of opportunity. This is a really important point. In the 16 years since the BBC published its first diversity strategy, it has not published any evaluation of the effectiveness of its efforts. If we are to see real progress, we must first know what works and what does not work. Members who spoke in the debate in April will be well aware that since 1999 we have had 30 BBC initiatives and strategies aimed at improving the representation of black, Asian and ethnic minority communities, but between 2011 and 2015 the proportion of the BBC’s workforce that was from a black, Asian or ethnic minority background has increased by only 0.9 % to 13.1%, and only 7.1 % of the BBC’s senior leadership in TV are black, Asian or minority ethnic.
It worries me that the BBC is one of the organisations in which we routinely hear language such as, “This person or that person is going to be the next director-general,” “This person or that person will one day be head of drama,” or “This person or that person is at Sky or Channel 4 and we expect them to come across in a few years’ time.” Given the profile of those people, I am likely to bump into them if I happen to go down Muswell Hill Broadway on Saturday afternoon. That is not good enough. We should not have that expectation. We should reach far beyond that. It is just a bit too cosy and we do not want that kind of cosy friends relationship—despite the nice things I said about James Purnell, who is a friend of mine—in at our national broadcaster.
John Nicolson
Does the right hon. Gentleman recognise that one of the problems in encouraging more people to enter the BBC is that often work experience positions are advertised with no pay, or not advertised at all? People have to be fairly well off to go to work at the BBC for a couple of months without earning a penny piece.
Mr Lammy
It is clearly not possible for a young person, or even a slightly older person, who is not situated in London or does not have parents who can put them up and see them through, to take up those opportunities. It will exclude swathes of people, and the standard has to be higher.
In the previous debate, there was much reflection on other broadcasters, and some people asked me, “Why are you picking on the BBC?” Let me be clear: I will always consider myself a tremendous friend of the BBC. In my own television viewing and radio listening habits, I constantly switch on the BBC and I am really pleased with so much of its output. But because it is the national broadcaster, it has a higher standard. I pay tribute to my good friend Baroness King, who is leaving the UK to go to the United States but who has done a great job as head of diversity at Channel 4. She has led the way, and Channel 4 is being bold on targets, taking a 360° approach and setting clear guidelines for its independent producers. It is leading the debate consistently, bringing people such as Idris Elba into this place to lead the public conversation. My challenge to the BBC is to say, “We expect you to occupy the same territory and to go further.” It should not be about this House leading the BBC in that direction: the BBC should, to some extent, lead us in the future. We expect a higher standard, and the public purpose should ensure that reflecting and representing the diversity of the UK is embedded into the BBC.
BBC: Diversity
Debate between John Nicolson and David Lammy
John Nicolson (East Dunbartonshire) (SNP)
Let me say what a pleasure it is to follow my hon. Friend the Member for Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch and Strathspey (Drew Hendry) and, indeed, to listen to this whole debate.
I congratulate the right hon. Member for Tottenham (Mr Lammy) on instigating the debate. He told us he was tired of BBC strategies, and that it was time for ambitious targets. I agree, although I slightly diverge from him when he says that only patricians now appear on Andrew Neil’s programme. I have been on the programme four times in the past 12 months and I am as common as muck, so perhaps there is hope for the rest of us.
John Nicolson
The right hon. Gentleman has repeatedly made that very clear.
My hon. Friend the Member for Na h-Eileanan an Iar (Mr MacNeil) made a passionate call for fairer funding and representation for Gaelic. Alas, as he knows, I am the first member of my family not to speak the language of my island family and bitterly regret it.
My hon. Friend the Member for East Renfrewshire (Kirsten Oswald) gave us a fascinating tour d’horizon, illustrating the shamefully narrow social background of BBC governors through the ages.
The hon. Member for Ealing Central and Acton (Dr Huq) also walked us down memory lane with “It Ain’t Half Hot Mum”, Alf Garnett and the black and white minstrels. How we all shuddered. I shudder every time I watch Mr Humphries. [Interruption.] I was terrified that that would become a natural part of my growing development as a teenage gay boy.
There has been a remarkable amount of agreement in all parts of the House, which highlights the important role that the BBC plays in our national life and the responsibility it has as a public service broadcaster to ensure diversity on our television screens and, crucially, within the organisation itself.
As the motion recognises and many speakers have reiterated, one of the key public purposes outlined in the BBC’s charter is to represent the UK, its nations, regions and communities. The BBC should mirror the society in which we live. We are not all white, able-bodied, English, heterosexual men, and the BBC should reflect us in all our glorious diversity, but for too long it has not. It is clear, however, that Members of this House want to see greater progress in the representation, both on and off screen, of under-represented groups, such as gay and lesbian people and older women.
The BBC must acknowledge the different needs of the nations of the UK and cater more effectively for them, not least in the provision of news. During this period of BBC charter renewal, there is a perfect opportunity to enshrine further the principles of diversity and ensure that the people of these islands see themselves portrayed accurately, fairly and without stereotypes.
On screen, the BBC has its work cut out to persuade ethnic minority viewers that it reflects them. The BBC Trust’s purpose remit survey found that less than one third of black people believe that the BBC was good at representing them—the worst performance in the public remit survey. Critics of the BBC argue that ethnic representation on screen is often just window dressing. Simon Albury of the Campaign for Broadcasting Equality says:
“On-screen representation which is not matched by off-screen employment is a hollow, deceptive and superficial gesture. Editorial power and influence lie behind the screen not on it.”
He is right. I know. I spent my television career on screen.
Although the BBC’s black, Asian and ethnic minority workforce is at an all-time high, data from the Broadcast Equality and Training Regulator show that only 5% of those from black and minority ethnic backgrounds become executives in the TV industry. Other broadcasters have been significantly bolder in their attempts to diversify. Sky is on target to have people from BME backgrounds in at least 20% of significant on-screen roles, to have 20% of all writers on entertainment shows from BME backgrounds, and for every production to have someone from a BME background in at least one senior role.