2019 Loan Charge

Debate between John Hayes and Tommy Sheppard

Tuesday 20th November 2018 Westminster Hall

[Fiona Bruce (Congleton) (Con)]

Will my right hon. Friend give way?

[Tommy Sheppard]

Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?

[Mr Hayes]

I happily give way to my hon. Friend first.

[Mr Hayes]

That should be a further part of the invitation that I made via my hon. Friend the Member for Wycombe (Mr Baker), whom I congratulate on securing the debate, to the Minister. We look forward to the Minister confirming that when he responds.

[Tommy Sheppard]

Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?

[Mr Hayes]

I will briefly, but I want to move on, because I appreciate the lack of time.

--- Later in debate ---

[Tommy Sheppard]

I am grateful, because I concur entirely with the point that the real villains are the companies that mis-sold the schemes in the first place—at times, for fees that can only be considered usurious. My constituent paid £138,000 in fees over three years to a company called AM Limited, which has changed its name but is still trading and registered in Panama. If HMRC were to assist my constituent in trying to recover that money, he would be much better able to pay his retrospective tax liability.

[Mr Hayes]

I have answered many debates in this Chamber as a Minister of various Departments, and I tell the Minister, who is a good and honourable man, that when this many hon. Members from both sides of the House come together in a single cause, he had better take action. The writing is on the wall and he has to respond. I know he will take that piece of sound advice in the spirit that it is offered to him.

I will briefly make three recommendations and then draw my remarks to a rapid conclusion. First, I would like the Minister to tell us what further impact assessment has been made by scale and detail on the families affected by the measures. Secondly, I would like him to give us an estimate of how many people who cannot or will not pay will be driven to bankruptcy, and what effect that will have on the Treasury’s revenue calculations on the matter. Thirdly, as I have already said twice—I make no apology for amplifying it—I would like him to tell us what steps he is taking in respect of the architects and advocates of the schemes, who have done so much damage.

I have no doubt that being a Treasury Minister is about churning figures, but it is also about changing lives. This matter affects the wellbeing of large numbers of our constituents. Families will be blighted and faith in fairness will be ruined. The Minister—an honourable gentleman, a good Treasury Minister, a valued colleague and friend—needs to see the writing on the wall and take action. Woe betide those who do not. They will rue the day that they failed to listen to the voices that have been aired today.