Draft Community Drivers’ Hours Offences (Enforcement) regulations 2017

Debate between John Hayes and Oliver Heald

Monday 27th November 2017 General Committees

[The Minister for Transport Legislation and Maritime (Mr John Hayes)]

I beg to move,

That the Committee has considered the draft Community Drivers’ Hours Offences (Enforcement) Regulations 2017.

I shall say just a few words about these important but I think uncontroversial draft regulations. They are being made to enhance the powers of enforcement agencies in respect of the rules on drivers’ hours. For the benefit of Members who may not be aware of the drivers’ hours rules, I shall make a few introductory remarks.

The rules are central to keeping our roads safe; they set maximum driving times and minimum break and rest times for most commercial drivers of lorries and buses. For example, the rules mean that after four and a half hours a driver must take a 45-minute break, and daily driving time is normally limited to nine hours. The consequence of drivers working when fatigued can of course be catastrophic, so while we can be pleased to note that the number of road accidents involving buses and lorries has been reducing over time, we should never be complacent.

The rules are enforced by the Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency and the police with targeted roadside checks and by visiting operators’ premises. Most breaches of the rules are identified swiftly and dealt with efficiently by means of fixed financial penalties. More serious breaches are referred to traffic commissioners or lead to prosecution. The draft regulations will extend the use of fixed penalties to a wider range of infringements of drivers’ hours—in essence, that is what they do. The regulations are based on well-established practice, widely acknowledged to be the right thing, and take that a little further.

The tachograph, the device that is used to check compliance with the rules, has an historical memory but “on the record” or so-called historical drivers’ hours offences can be sanctioned at present only through court prosecution. To use a shorthand, the draft regulations will establish a mechanism by which those historical offences can be dealt with in the same way that contemporary or current offences are dealt with now.

The problem with the existing arrangements is that they are time-consuming, bureaucratic and costly for the enforcement agencies and for the operator and driver involved. Particular difficulty is created in respect of non-UK drivers, so probably the biggest consequence of this change is for them. Now, when non-UK drivers are issued with a court summons, regrettably they do not always regard it as seriously as they might. Drivers who are issued a court summons but are off to some distant land probably will not take notice of it. At the moment, the only practical, but rarely used, means of dealing with that is to arrest the drivers and to hold them in police custody. Generally, therefore, they are just given a warning.

The draft regulations will enable the enforcement agency to issue a fixed penalty for infringement of drivers’ hours and that will apply to any offence that has taken place in the 28 days preceding the check I described. In essence, the regulations will help to level the playing field for UK and non-UK offenders. They will also bring the UK into line with several other European countries that already issue on-the-spot penalties for historical drivers’ hours offences. The enforcement agencies will be saved time and money by their being given the option of taking fewer cases to court.

The new powers will not be used indiscriminately. The DVSA intends to issue fixed penalties when the case might previously have been taken to court, not every time a minor historical offence is identified. There is already a reasonable degree of discretion in this exercise. If someone is repeatedly abusing the system in a minor way, or more seriously, typically the DVSA will take a view, but it exercises a reasonable degree of discretion.

We undertook a formal consultation on the changes, but I will not tire the Committee, or indeed you, Mr Pritchard—who, by the way, it is a delight to serve under—by going through it in exhaustive detail. However, I have the consultation with me and it is available to any Member who wants to look at it more closely and carefully. It received broad support from respondents, including the trade associations. No one really wants this important restriction on what drivers may do, which is of course in their interests, to be abused routinely. Everyone wants the mechanisms to avoid that to be fit for purpose. By filling the gap that I have described, the draft regulations will make the method, means—

[Sir Oliver Heald (North East Hertfordshire) (Con)]

Will the Minister give way?

[Mr Hayes]

I will give way very briefly, although I was about to come to my exciting conclusion.

[Sir Oliver Heald]

I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for giving way. One point that the trade bodies made was that they would not want an offence that occurred before a driver joined their operator company to be scored against the operator’s score compliance risk, because that could affect the operator’s licence. Was it possible to find a solution to that concern?

[Mr Hayes]

That is the point I just made—I referred to the consultation a few moments ago. The consultation document makes it clear that, although the point made about current and historical offences is true, operators are sufficiently persuaded by the discretion that I described to be confident that the draft regulations will be applied proportionately. They are not designed to catch people out; they are designed to do the right thing. I think that my right hon. and learned Friend knows that the representative bodies have warmly welcomed these changes on the basis of the exercise of that kind of discretion, which is already well established in their experience and in the mind of the Committee, I am sure.

Without further ado, because I know people will want to deal with this matter thoroughly but efficiently, I simply say that I think the draft regulations are entirely reasonable and deserve the support of the whole Committee.

Automated and Electric Vehicles Bill

Debate between John Hayes and Oliver Heald

2nd reading: House of Commons & Ways and Means resolution: House of Commons
Monday 23rd October 2017 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hayes]

The hon. Gentleman knows that I am, one might say, preoccupied by the subject of skills because I understand the relationship between skills and social justice. One might even say that I have been characterised by my determination to ensure that people get chances to acquire the skills necessary not only for our economy but for them to fulfil their potential. There will, of course, be all kinds of new skills associated with this technology, but I am not sure it is the time at the moment to dictate what they might look like. The job that the Government are doing is to legislate sufficiently so that change, innovation, and research and development are not inhibited, but not to the point where we dictate, or try to dictate, what the future might look like in this regard.

[Sir Oliver Heald (North East Hertfordshire) (Con)]

Does my right hon. Friend agree that it is important that the message should not be that an electric car or an automated vehicle is an unpleasant driving experience, and that the only kind of car that is worth driving is a classic car? The modern car is a joy to drive. I hope that will remain the case and that he is not going to stop us doing it.

[Mr Hayes]

Yes, that is true. Electric cars can be a different but altogether just as enjoyable an experience. I have had the opportunity of test driving an electric car. As a Minister, I have travelled very frequently in an electric car driven not by me but by the driver from the Government car service. Only in the past few days, I have had the chance to drive in one of the new electric taxis. To experience that is to see a different kind of future and to enjoy a different kind of driving experience. I do not think it is worse. It is certainly different, but better in all kinds of ways, as I shall explain.