All 2 Debates between John Hayes and Alec Shelbrooke

Thu 13th Jul 2017

Driving Offences: Private Land

Debate between John Hayes and Alec Shelbrooke
Thursday 13th July 2017

(7 years, 3 months ago)

Commons Chamber
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John Hayes Portrait Mr Hayes
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Accidents in residential settings are just as tragic as those elsewhere, so when considering whether to formulate dangerous driving legislation for private land, we certainly need to think more widely than the health and safety legislation as it applies to work. Although we should recognise that the highway is a different environment from private land, we should not lose sight of the similarities. In seeking to address the toll of deaths and injuries from road traffic accidents, the World Bank has been advocating that all countries adopt what is known as a safe systems approach to reducing national road casualties.

In December 2015, my predecessor as a Minister in the Department, my hon. Friend the Member for Harrogate and Knaresborough (Andrew Jones), published the “British Road Safety Statement”, which, among other policies, set out what we are doing in this country to support the safe systems approach. While this obviously related to the highway, the principles can be applied off the highway just as reasonably and effectively.

A safe systems approach recognises that

“We can never entirely eradicate road collisions because there will always be some degree of human error; when collisions do occur the human body is inherently vulnerable to death or injury; and because of this, we should manage our infrastructure, vehicles and speeds to reduce crash energies”

to levels that do not lead to human injury or death.

In considering how to address the tragedy of off-road vehicle accidents, we would do well to adopt a safe systems approach. This is not to say that the solutions will be the same as those applied to the highway, but the aim of saving lives is the same. All this indicates that it is not straightforward to adjust the existing law to improve vehicle operational safety. Yet, the statistics tell us that we should, and must, aspire to do more to prevent future accidents. Legislation is not the only tool. For example, the Health and Safety Executive already works with trade bodies, including the National Farmers Union, to develop good practice relating to handling farm vehicles. This includes off-road specific factors such as working on uneven ground, steep gradients and using on-board machinery. Those things would not be covered by road traffic regulations, even if they were to apply.

I am conscious of how the law may appear, when the penalty for an illegal action depends on where it happens—that does not seem reasonable, does it?—particularly when it seems not to have regard to the equal severity of its effects. So, I am pleased to tell the House and my hon. Friend that I will consider how we might address the matter, including the possibility of future legislative reform. That may sound like a blithe, easy commitment to be delivered by a future Government. However, it is important that we get the reform right, and that we do not rush and make errors in how we frame that kind of legislation. It is more complicated than it first seems for some of the reasons that I have set out, but that is not a reason to do nothing. To that end, I invite my hon. Friend to come to my Department to meet me and my officials and talk through how we might proceed.

Alec Shelbrooke Portrait Alec Shelbrooke
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I am most grateful to hear what my right hon. Friend says, and it will come as a great relief to Pamela and her family that this has been taken so seriously. May I ask whether I could bring Pamela and her solicitor so that they can give their first-hand experience and talk about how this law may be developed?

John Hayes Portrait Mr Hayes
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I would be honoured and delighted to meet them, so of course the answer is yes.

I have a reputation for quoting poets, and I usually do so in a light-hearted or jocular fashion, as the Speaker mentioned recently. But sometimes poetry can be applied to the most difficult circumstances, and the poet John Donne said this:

“any man’s death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind”.

We are all poorer for an untimely loss of the kind my hon. Friend has raised in the House. Of course we are poorer, and of course we hurt when we lose a relative, a friend or a colleague, but we are diminished by any loss, and the tragic loss my hon. Friend described will have moved the hearts, as I said at the outset, of everyone in this Chamber, and of many beyond it who have heard this debate.

I say again that I am grateful to my hon. Friend for raising the issue of off-road vehicle offences. As I have said in reply to the debate, how we respond will depend on the joint working of a large number of bodies within Government. I am not able today to say exactly how the law will change, but given the short time from the point when this debate was announced, doing otherwise would have indicated that we had not thought this through properly. The implications of any such move will be planned carefully and considered, and we will proceed with certainty as a result of that deliberation. But I tell Members this: we will proceed with the firm intention that tragedies such as Harry Whitlam’s might be prevented in the future.

Question put and agreed to.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between John Hayes and Alec Shelbrooke
Thursday 24th May 2012

(12 years, 5 months ago)

Commons Chamber
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John Hayes Portrait Mr Hayes
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I agree with the hon. Lady. It is important that mentors are drawn from across the business community and that everyone, regardless of who they are and from where they start, gets their chance to prosper as a result of the scheme. As a result of her question, I will look again at what more we can do in that respect.

Alec Shelbrooke Portrait Alec Shelbrooke (Elmet and Rothwell) (Con)
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6. What funds his Department makes available for training and employment for adults.

John Hayes Portrait The Minister for Further Education, Skills and Lifelong Learning (Mr John Hayes)
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Despite the pressures and challenges, this Government protected the adult and community learning budget. In the wake of adult learners week, Mr Speaker, I know that you will want me to congratulate all those who are involved in giving people a second chance. Overall, funding in adult and further education will be £3.8 billion in 2012-13. The expansion in provision will be focused on young adults, the low-skilled and pre-employment training for the unemployed. The reason for that is that this Government are committed to redistributing advantage. We are a Government driven by social purpose.

Alec Shelbrooke Portrait Alec Shelbrooke
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What specific help can my hon. Friend’s Department make available to those not in employment, education and training, such as a constituent of mine who has a job lined up as an electrician but cannot afford the £600 training course he needs to undergo in order to gain the latest addition to the qualifications? He has been out of the trade for only 18 months.

John Hayes Portrait Mr Hayes
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My hon. Friend is right that we need to allow people to access education at the point that is right for them. That is why continuing education is so important and why the apprenticeship programme is both for young people entering the labour market for the first time and for those who want to upskill and reskill. I strongly support, as he does, the expansion of that programme in both quantity and quality.