Draft Somerset West and Taunton (Modification of Boundary Change Enactments) Regulations 2018 Draft Somerset West and Taunton (Local Government Changes) Order 2018

John Hayes Excerpts

Wednesday 16th May 2018 General Committees

[Mr John Hayes (South Holland and The Deepings) (Con)]

I apologise for not being here at the beginning of the Minister’s remarks, but I heard a great deal of what he said and all of what has been said since. I do not really know much about Taunton or Somerset, although I did visit there a lot in my youth, when my sister lived in Dunster. These days, I deliberately never go west of Nottingham, because I spend my life in Lincolnshire and Westminster. I holiday in Whitby and Northumberland. That is good enough for me.

I do, however, want to make these observations based on what has been said so far. First, local government is not an accident. It is not the creation of some mandarin—I do not mean to be rude to mandarins, by the way, in case anyone thought I did—with a whiteboard in London. It has to reflect communitive interest. For local government to have political legitimacy, it has to reflect a general feeling of local affinity. I accept that not all areas are homogeneous, but it does have to reflect that affinity. That is highly relevant to the order. All of what I say is directly pertinent, Ms Buck, just in case you were worrying.

[The Chair]

A flicker of anxiety has crossed my face.

[Mr Hayes]

I could see that you were looking at me in a kindly, but stern way—if that is not contradictory.

That seems to me to be at the heart of all the considerations on this kind of change. Will the result be a genuine reflection of a local communitive interest?

Secondly, the relationship between local and national Government, as my hon. Friend the Member for Bridgwater and West Somerset said, has always been a matter of debate and periodically, as local government has been reorganised, it has been a matter of contention. I think of the Local Government Act 1972—one of Edward Heath’s many disasters—which created all kinds of peculiar local authorities, which luckily enough were fairly short lived, such as Humberside and Avon. One thinks back on them now as distant, sad memories.

[The Chair]

I urge the right hon. Gentleman to firmly locate his remarks in the statutory requirements.

[Mr Hayes]

In that context, the 1972 Act created a new authority in Somerset. It was very short-lived, so it is important in the debate about local and national relationships that national Government do not simply reorganise local government without reference to some of the imperatives that I have mentioned.

My third point is that this is a question to ask of all Governments. None of the comments that I am making is about this Minister particularly or this Government; they are bigger points. The Government have to be clear about the ramifications of devolution. If the Government and members of the Committee believe that power is best exercised closest to its effect, which seems to me to be the essence of why devolution is desirable, that principle has to be seen through in any structural changes to local government of the kind that we are debating today.

I have articulated a few broad thoughts. I will not comment further on the specifics of this proposal, because as I said at the outset, I am not well enough informed to do so. It seems to me that the Government need fairly speedily to understand those broader principles, rather than introducing a series of what might be perceived by some, and certainly by my hon. Friend the Member for Bridgwater and West Somerset, as haphazard or inconsistent changes.

--- Later in debate ---

[Rishi Sunak]

Far from being cavalier, the Government believe in doing things properly by due process. Should a proposal emerge from the county, of course we will consider it alongside the criteria that the previous Secretary of State laid out in Parliament. As I reiterated at the beginning, central Government will, as committed to do in our manifesto, support local areas that bring forward locally-driven proposals and consider them fairly and appropriately.

[Mr John Hayes]

The salient point is that the Minister has persuasively made the case that this proposal has emanated from the locality. If the locality, with the communitive interest I described at its heart, has requested that the Government consider these matters, then the Government are doing entirely the right thing in doing so. If the Minister is right—it seems from his evidence that he must be—he has satisfied my concern that these things must be driven by local people and local interests.

[Rishi Sunak]

I thank my right hon. Friend on one of the rare occasions that someone has changed their mind during a debate. I agree with him that not only have proposals been driven by the local area but they have been formally consented to by the two councils involved.

My hon. Friend the Member for Bridgwater and West Somerset made a detailed point about the definitions in the regulations and order we are considering. Of course, Taunton Deane is a district with borough status. That is very clear in the interpretation section of the order, which defines district councils for the purposes of the order. The definition is:

“‘the District Councils’ means West Somerset District Council and Taunton Deane Borough Council”.

I hope I have assured him that that was not missed.

Lastly, unfortunately my hon. Friend the Member for Bridgwater and West Somerset has raised some very personal allegations against the leader of another council, as he has in the past.