Heritage Public Houses Bill

Joe Powell Excerpts

Friday 16th October 2026 Commons Chamber

[Mike Wood]

Local representatives have an important role. Obviously, there are established methods for communicating public notices, but I do not think that anything will replace a good, well organised local campaign by the local Member of Parliament or the local councillors engaging their local communities.

Crucially, adopting the framework of the English Devolution and Community Empowerment Act 2026, if a community group cannot reach an agreement on price with the seller because the seller is demanding an unrealistic, exorbitant price, the price will be determined by an independent valuer. That means that rogue owners would no longer be able to price out local people with inflated asking prices designed purely to force a dereliction narrative.

Thirdly, the Bill establishes immediate interim protection against demolition. When local residents discovered that Crooked House had been sold, local councillor Victoria Wilson moved with great speed to submit an application for statutory listing—but the pub was torched and bulldozed before that application could even be considered. Clauses 5 to 7 resolve such situations by adopting a proven system that has operated successfully in Wales for years; I understand that the Welsh Labour Government introduced it 20 years ago. Under this Bill, the moment an application to list a registered heritage pub is submitted, it automatically receives interim listed building status. Overnight, it is treated in planning law as a listed building, stopping bulldozers in their tracks and stopping the interiors from being ripped out, while the experts do their work.

[Joe Powell (Kensington and Bayswater) (Lab)]

I pay tribute to the hon. Member’s campaign on the Crooked House. Will he elaborate on how he sees that system interacting with the asset of community value option? A campaign group in my constituency has made a pub an asset of community value. That has bought it some time, but of course it still has to raise the money for a bid. I am curious about whether he has explored that option, too.

[Mike Wood]

The Bill is very much designed to complement and work alongside the measures in the Localism Act 2011. I am proud that the then coalition Government introduced the system of assets of community value in the Act; this Government then extended some of those provisions in their English devolution Act. The Bill will not replace or supplant any of those measures, but it will recognise that communities have that power—they have generally gone through what is still not an easy process to navigate only when they have been aware of a clear and direct threat, by which time, as we saw with the Crooked House, it can be far too late for that to matter. The Bill therefore extends some of the provisions to cover all the heritage pubs on the heritage pub register.

Clause 8 includes a fair compensation mechanism for owners if listing is ultimately refused, ensuring proper balance and property safeguards—again, copying the system introduced in Wales.

Finally, clause 11 would kill speculative development at source. It creates a strict presumption against planning permission for change of use of any registered pub. Clearly, the national planning policy framework has raised the bar for change of use for heritage buildings and many pubs, but having the protection in primary legislation—clearly in an Act of Parliament—will be more effective. We have all seen cases in which our own local councils and planning authorities have looked at some of the provisions of the NPPF that we thought were safeguards against inappropriate development and decided that those were not as strong as we had imagined or as we had thought they were intended to be when introduced. The Bill overcomes that by putting the presumption into primary legislation so that permission cannot be granted unless the owner can prove that the property has been marketed at an independent and fair price and no pub operator or community bid has emerged. If the buyers of the Crooked House had known that they could never convert the site into an alternative development or waste depot, I do not think they would have touched it, and it would have remained in hands dedicated to pulling pints.

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[Adam Jogee (Newcastle-under-Lyme) (Lab)]

Thank you very much, Madam Deputy Speaker—I feel like I have just won the pub quiz, being called first. Christmas has come early!

I am grateful for the opportunity to speak on Second Reading of the Heritage Public Houses Bill, but before I do, I would like to say the name Donna Ann Reece. Donna was 38 and a constituent of mine, and sadly, Staffordshire police has launched a murder investigation after she was found dead at a property in Clayton in my constituency on Monday this week. An investigation is under way, so we have to be very careful in what we say, but let me say this: every woman in our country and across the world deserves to live freely and safe from the effects of male violence, and I will do whatever I can to make sure that happens in Newcastle-under-Lyme. I thank the emergency services for their diligence and pray that justice will be done. Of course, I also extend my condolences to Donna’s family and friends, who are grieving at this time. I know that my hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham Yardley (Jess Phillips) will no doubt call Donna’s name next March for International Women’s Day, but I thought it was important that I did so today here. Thank you for your indulgence, Madam Deputy Speaker.

Turning to the Bill, who doesn’t like a visit to the pub for cold refreshments of all kinds?

[Joe Powell]

Warm!

[Adam Jogee]

I do not know what happens in Kensington, but we like a cold refreshment in Newcastle-under-Lyme.

I love visiting and supporting the many excellent pubs in Newcastle-under-Lyme and our surrounding communities in north Staffordshire and south Cheshire. With that in mind, I thank the hon. Member for Kingswinford and South Staffordshire (Mike Wood), my county colleague, for bringing the Bill to the House today. I am very pleased to see my old friend, the Minister for Homelessness, Democracy, Communities and Faith, in her place—old in length of friendship, not in age, just for clarity, otherwise she will never accept an invitation to come and see us in Newcastle-under-Lyme!

All of us know how important our local pubs are to knitting our community together, boosting our local economies and, importantly, making the very best of the hard work of Britain’s farmers and their produce. Newcastle-under-Lyme is home to a number of historic pubs, all worthy of a visit, all welcoming to old and new, and all with a strong recommendation from their Member of Parliament in the House today. Take the Old Brown Jug down on Bridge Street, the scene of many a gig played by my late uncle Colin Cooper and his Climax Blues Band through the ’60s and ’70s. It is a fabulous building that dates back to the mid-19th century. I should declare an interest, in that the Jug felt like my unofficial office during the selection campaign to be Labour’s candidate in Newcastle-under-Lyme.

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[Adam Jogee]

My hon. Friend is determined to make sure that the hon. Member for Spelthorne never speaks to me again, which may be a blessing, so I am grateful. She puts a question to me, and through me to all colleagues who may be thinking about how they can answer it in their contributions, and she is right. There are many places where people find a place to sit, to come together and to make things happen, whether it is to campaign against injustice and inequality or to call out councils for bad decisions. For example, there are the families campaigning on road safety in Newcastle-under-Lyme, particularly after the recent incident where a father was knocked down taking his child to school. An organisation has come together following their frustration and experiences. That is just one example. My hon. Friend can point to many places in her community where that will have happened. I look forward to her, when she catches your eye, Madam Deputy Speaker, being able to share some of the stories from her part of the world, as I know others will, too.

The important point about conversation is that pubs are so often home to or locations for that shared, connected thread of history, experience and understanding that goes through from the generations before us to today, as we seek to look to tomorrow. I thank my hon. Friend for that intervention and the chance to spend a minute thinking about the importance of those conversations and what happens behind the doors of our public houses, not least the older ones.

If I may, I will return for a moment to the Jug on Bridge Street, which, as I said at the beginning, was my unofficial office during my selection campaign. From a family perspective, it was like going full circle. My mother’s eldest sister, my auntie Carol—sadly late now—married my uncle Colin, who was the lead saxophonist in the Climax Blues Band, who released “Couldn’t Get It Right” and many other brilliant tunes that will have been played in pubs up and down the country, from Spelthorne to Staffordshire. I held on to that sense of connection with someone who had used the pub for years before me. I thought it was quite nice, and it was a source of comfort as I went through membership lists—you will remember this, Madam Deputy Speaker—trying to remember who I had and had not spoken to, what they had or had not said, what they wanted to say, and what I wanted to say back. The power of that connection and story is important. I am grateful to my hon. Friend, even though she is now on her phone—I tease—for giving me the opportunity to spend a minute thinking about that.

Our public houses each have their own unique character and charm, and we cannot let the generations to come to miss out on a crucial part of our heritage and our culture. This is the longest I have spoken since I was elected to the House, and I am annoyed that I did not write more, since I have the floor, but I extend my thanks to all those in every way who keep our pub sector alive in Newcastle-under-Lyme. They do so much for the community and our local economy. In many ways, our island nation home would be so different if it were otherwise.

[Joe Powell]

I appreciate that my hon. Friend may be drawing to a close, but as he is thanking people around the country who run these pubs, will he give special congratulations to the now more than 200 community-run pubs? There are co-operatives, too. These pubs are taken on by the community, who want to save their pub because they appreciate the value that it brings. Does he have any co-operative or community-run pubs that he might want to thank, or will he just join me in general in thanking that movement?

[Adam Jogee]

I could point to many excellent examples of that sense of community, but I am conscious that others may want to speak. I could not agree more with my hon. Friend, and he is right to raise that issue. It speaks to the people power of community, and I thank him for his intervention.

Our historic pubs are at the heart of our communities, and once we lose them, we rarely get them back. I am grateful to the hon. Member for Kingswinford and South Staffordshire for bringing this Bill to the House today, for giving us the opportunity to debate these important issues, and for giving me a chance to speak about the excellent public houses, both old and new, in Newcastle-under-Lyme. I know that colleagues from across the House, and from across our United Kingdom, will do similar shortly.

We must keep working to make sure that our pubs are preserved and supported. As I speak in this debate today, I think of all the happy times I have spent with friends, family, loved ones and many a constituent across a pub table—happy times indeed!

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[Dame Meg Hillier]

I thank my hon. Friend for that intervention.

With your indulgence, Madam Deputy Speaker, I do not want to get too much into every clause of the Bill, because this is a debate about its principles, but the important principle my hon. Friend highlights is that we can have heritage buildings that might or might not quite meet the definition. To be clear to the House, the definition the hon. Member for Kingswinford and South Staffordshire rightly highlighted is that a pub must be

“at least 150 years old and…used as a public house in the past ten years”.

There is still a debate there about something that maybe was a pub 11 years ago, so I think there is also a gap there. It also states:

“has been most recently used as a public house and the local planning authority deems its building or interior to have a degree of heritage significance meriting consideration in planning decisions”.

That is a debatable point, when a tram shed may have gone through further changes—different eras of planning may change things.

I remember that there was one warehouse in the heart of Shoreditch that, very unusually, had not been basemented in the Victorian era and had been in sole ownership for many, many years. As a result, when development occurred on that site, the fantastic Museum of London, now renamed the London Museum, brought in its archaeology department—as it is in London for every planning development—which discovered that there was land there where Shakespeare himself had performed one of his first plays. When the building was developed, the very ground where Shakespeare—the bard himself—trod, was preserved under glass. That shows that buildings move and change. So, without swaying too much into the detail, the definition is really important. It may be that the tramshed in the constituency of my hon. Friend the Member for Shipley (Anna Dixon) would qualify, but if some of the old tramshed trappings have been removed, with the change of use, it may not, so there is an interesting point there.

I will turn back to the point I was trying to make about planning and the existing measures, which is why I think this Bill may be over-layering that unnecessarily. Local planning authorities do, of course, have powers to use an enforcement notice for a breach of planning control, with the maximum penalty being an unlimited fine. The Crooked House, sadly, was a breach of planning control, and the fine did not resolve the problem, so there is a gap in current planning law. I am sure we all have examples in our constituencies of mysterious fires or things happening, whether in our time or in a predecessor’s time, because the penalty is not enough of a deterrent to somebody with deep pockets, who can simply pay that penalty and then go ahead and continue with the redevelopment. With the Crooked House, there were clearly people who had no regard for the punishment that might fall on them.

[Joe Powell]

I just wanted to give a hopeful example from just outside my constituency, where a developer knocked down the Carlton Tavern, and Westminster council ordered the pub to rebuilt brick by brick. It has now reopened and is proving really popular. It is possible to stay the course and get that enforcement and planning system to come in even when someone may have broken the law initially.