Convention on Domestic Workers

Jim Sheridan Excerpts

Wednesday 29th June 2011 Westminster Hall

[Fiona Mactaggart]

That organisation should be better at dealing with the issue, but I am not sure that it is easy to do so properly at borders. That is one of the challenges. There needs to be an in-country resource to which vulnerable trafficked people know they can turn for help. Their fear is that if they turn to the authorities for help, they will be outed. Unfortunately, that happens too often as those concerned are classed as illegal. For many people, that is through no fault of their own. They are here without status and they are illegal because their owner—we must not forget that we are talking about a kind of ownership and slavery—has retained their passport unlawfully and has said, “Don’t worry, I’ll sort this out,” and so on.

There needs to be an effective in-country recourse to which people in these circumstances can turn. Unfortunately, the national referral mechanism frequently fails to provide that because it does not consider its first priority to be protecting the individual. There is a laborious tick-box process and, because there is no real prospect of prosecuting someone for trafficking and getting a conviction, often the national referral mechanism will suggest that a person is not really trafficked. That is really sad.

[Jim Sheridan (Paisley and Renfrewshire North) (Lab)]

Certainly we need to break the coalition’s “Upstairs, Downstairs” mindset in relation to workplace issues. On the question of people having to report the horrific circumstances in which they live, does my hon. Friend agree that the trade unions’ work on taking the evidence that was given—and I hope the Minister will arrange meetings with the trade unions to talk through the issues—is vital? If the trade unions had not been there to pick up these issues, I doubt anyone else would have done so.

[Fiona Mactaggart]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. One of the powerful things about the ILO is that it is tripartite—it involves Governments, employers and trade unions. Where trade unions have picked up these issues, they have been brilliant. It has been difficult in some ways because trade unions have traditionally organised in big workplaces, and organising domestic workers has been a challenge for them. I had the privilege of speaking to a Nepali trade unionist who talked about how she had organised domestic workers in Nepal. Frankly, if someone can organise domestic workers in Nepal, they must be a genius organiser. It was wonderful to hear about their work in connecting to this vulnerable group of people. That was a strong piece of evidence about how trade unions can, by reaching out to people who are in these completely isolated workplaces, protect workers very well.

I want to draw my remarks to an end. I said that I would conclude by citing the Centre for Social Justice. When Gavin Poole, the executive director of that organisation, launched his very welcome inquiry into trafficking he wrote:

“Enslaved in homes across the UK are vulnerable domestic workers who want to earn money cleaning and cooking, but instead have their passport seized by their ‘owner’ and are forbidden to leave the house in which they live and work; sleeping on the kitchen floor and eating leftovers from the family meal is commonplace. We believe that whilst there is much good work going on in the UK to confront slavery, much of it led by the voluntary sector, there is a need for a strategic overview to detail how this hidden criminal activity can be defeated once and for all. For instance, it is essential that all government departments, the voluntary sector, the police and local authorities move in the same direction in order for the UK’s response to be appropriate and effective…One slave in this country is one too many, and it is time for the UK to take a lead again. I encourage people who think slavery is a thing of the past to look again, and join the CSJ as we work to help build a different future for people trapped in this tragedy.”

The Minister’s coalition Government have borrowed many ideas from the Centre for Social Justice. I hope that they do not make this one an exception because, on this matter, what we see are words going in one direction and actions going in another direction. The Minister should change his mind. Let us have another U-turn.

--- Later in debate ---

[Andrew Selous]

I am making a slightly different point. Some countries ratified the convention, but then said that they would not enforce it. I just think that that is dishonest. The United Kingdom could have gone along and signed, got a pat on the back, not have had the aggravation of having this debate today, and then quietly not done anything about it. I am proud that, as a country, if we say that we will do something, we do it—that is important.

[Jim Sheridan]

The hon. Gentleman is right to identify the protection that workers have in this country. Does he understand, however, the frustration of people who are frightened to raise these issues with their employer for fear of losing their jobs? What would his suggestion be for people who are not being paid the minimum wage, and who are being mistreated in the workplace? What does he suggest that they do?

[Andrew Selous]

I am not sure that the convention actually gives them any particular rights that they do not have under employment law. I suggest that they contact Kalayaan, as the hon. Member for Slough said. There needs to be an education campaign. With evil people treating domestic workers like that, we need to find every opportunity to help them to realise what rights they already have.

--- Later in debate ---

[Grahame M. Morris]

My hon. Friends have indicated that many domestic workers feel intimidated, and are unwilling to resort to traditional means. I do not accept the hon. Gentleman’s assertion. Many of his arguments were deployed against the UK Government signing up to the convention on human trafficking, and in relation to basic health and safety. I do not accept that domestic workers are already covered by effective legislation.

[Jim Sheridan]

Does my hon. Friend share my sadness at the suggestion of the hon. Member for South West Bedfordshire (Andrew Selous) that if the ILO convention were signed, old women would have their houses raided by inspectors to make sure that the working conditions and their houses are suitable for people to work in? That is ridiculous.

[Grahame M. Morris]

I am grateful for my hon. Friend’s intervention. The point made by the hon. Gentleman is a scare tactic. I remind hon. Members that basic health and safety regulations apply in the workplace, so it is nonsense to suggest that signing up to the ILO convention would somehow disadvantage the groups identified.

It is appalling that the CBI voted against the convention, but no more so than the fact that the British Government abstained. The only way for the Government to restore their credibility, not just here in the UK, but internationally, is to lay out their plan to ratify the convention for the benefit of domestic workers in Britain. I am aware that the TUC has set up a campaign for ratification in alliance with domestic workers and several charities and non-governmental organisations. I hope that hon. Members will take note of that, and that those who follow our proceedings will support it.

I know that other hon. Members want to participate, but before finishing I want to touch on one of the progressive moves that set the ball rolling on improving rights, particularly for migrant domestic workers. The visa for domestic workers was introduced in 1998 for the specific purpose of protecting migrant domestic workers from abuse and exploitation. It recognised their vulnerable position in the under-regulated work environment, their isolation from co-workers, and their absolute dependency on their employer for finance, accommodation, immigration status, and information about their general rights.

Signing the convention would be a first step in putting the employment relationship, visa demands and working choices in the hands of migrants to some degree. Migrant domestic workers could, for the first time, enforce their rights. I hope that the Minister will not simply read out the line on the Government’s absolutely unacceptable position. Instead, I hope that he will reflect on what has been said today, and that he will take steps to rectify the damage that has been done to our international reputation and standing on workers’ rights, taking the cause of domestic workers backwards and aligning the British people with some of the most deplorable regimes, which have been labelled an axis of evil—I do not know whether that is a fair assessment—and which would make many decent people in the United Kingdom ashamed.

Will the Minister review the Government’s position, and dissociate themselves from the CBI on this issue? Will he also lay out a plan for Britain to ratify and abide by this internationally backed convention?

--- Later in debate ---

[Nia Griffith]

We could have an entire debate on the working time directive, but I am not going to get too distracted by that. I remind the Minister that we had an interesting discussion the other day in a European Committee, and it became apparent that most of the 27 countries in the EU operate various types of opt-out from the working time directive. Our original opt-out has been copied in many different ways, but each country has its own ideas. It is recognised that we need a full and frank discussion about what happens next; the picture across the EU has been a little confused and when we look at our domestic law, we need to ask what is appropriate, including for domestic workers. It is clearly not appropriate for people to work seven days a week, 24 hours day. We need to look at best practice and ensure that we follow that type of model.

[Jim Sheridan]

My hon. Friend should not be so modest. The Leader of the Opposition has said clearly that mistakes were made by the previous Government that we need to rectify. Although we recognise that, it is not an excuse for the current Government to bring in legislation.

[Nia Griffith]

Absolutely, particularly on issues that have taken years of discussion to get to our current position.

Let us return to how the articles in the convention are worded. They state that we should try to make national laws that apply to the general work force apply to domestic workers. That is not easy because domestic workers are often the hardest to reach. Nevertheless, we need to educate people and use the stick as well as the carrot.

The Government have said that they

“do not consider it appropriate or practical to extend criminal, health and safety laws, including inspections, to private households employing domestic workers. It would be difficult, for instance, to hold elderly individuals employing carers to the same standards as large companies.”

Let me remind the Minister of two parts of the convention: article 13 and the relevant recommendation. Article 13 states that each member should take appropriate action,

“with due regard for the specific characteristics of domestic work”.

It is clear that the convention views work undertaken by corporations and that carried out in people’s homes as different, and does not demand that they be treated similarly.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Davey]

I will come to the evidence for not applying the provisions in a second, but if I may, I will continue my remarks, because I want to answer the hon. Lady’s questions.

The Act would place a serious regulatory burden on individuals and create a fear of criminal liabilities if things go wrong. That speaks to the point made by the hon. Member for Slough, who says that there are not many prosecutions of small and medium-sized enterprises and that lots of advice is provided before such things happen. We could, of course, contest that, but what she fails to recognise is the fear of prosecutions, so let us look at the implications of that.

There would be new and significant disincentives to employing domestic workers in a private arrangement. Individuals may cease to employ the additional help they need, which could have serious social consequences. Elderly or disabled individuals, for example, could be deterred by the increased burden they would face from employing carers in their homes, potentially forcing them into residential care.

I assume that hon. Members, like me, visit constituents who are unable to come to their advice surgeries. I have two advice surgeries a week, but I also go to the homes of disabled and elderly people who are not able to come to see me. I have gone into many constituents’ homes, and my understanding of the health and safety legislation is that those homes would have to be significantly improved and changed. I do not believe that the people I visit would welcome inspections of their homes, which would be very intrusive.

[Jim Sheridan]

The Minister is a decent man, and I do not believe that he is reading out the script he has been given to scare people, but does he honestly agree with the hon. Member for South West Bedfordshire (Andrew Selous) that old women’s houses will be raided to ensure they comply with health and safety provisions? Is he seriously suggesting that will happen?

[Mr Davey]

I am not suggesting that, because health and safety inspectors do not raid people’s homes.

I ask colleagues to reflect carefully on the legal implications of the position they are taking. The convention would undermine the Government’s policy to support independent living, which includes offering personal budgets in the form of direct payments to people receiving state-funded care. In line with Government policy, social care is increasingly being delivered in the recipient’s own home, and more than 150,000 people are currently working as social care personal assistants in private homes. That policy was begun by the previous Government, and we support it.