Gurkha Pensions

Debate between Jim Shannon and Seema Malhotra

Monday 22nd November 2021 Westminster Hall

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

It is a pleasure to speak in this debate, Dr Huq. I was keen to participate. I thank the Backbench Committee for allowing the petition to be debated and the hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent North (Jonathan Gullis) for introducing it in such a well-rehearsed fashion.

No Member of this House, as others have said, is under any illusion as to the debt owed to the Gurkhas. The pension is an issue that I have raised in the House since 2011, as have others on many occasions. To put it simply, the historic treatment that the Gurkhas have received during the 200 years for which they have proudly served this nation has been disgraceful and must come to an end.

Gurkhas have served in the British Army around the world since 1947, and even before then 43,000 Gurkhas gave their lives fighting in the first and second world wars. Their bravery is the stuff of legend. Every one of us will have had some contact with the Gurkhas over the years. When I did the armed forces parliamentary scheme, I had the opportunity to meet some of the guys. We were introduced to them. I will never forget it; I was greatly humbled to be in their presence. I say that honestly, because I was. The Gurkhas might be men of small stature, but they have tremendous courage and bravery that surpasses and equals that of many others across this great nation.

Many years ago I also had the opportunity to see the Gurkhas at Mount Stewart in my constituency of Strangford, where they were the special attraction for the beating of the retreat. It was idyllic and will remain in my memory for all my life. My wife and I were both invited. It was a few years ago, on it was a lovely sunny summer’s evening. At the Mount Stewart house, which is run by the National Trust, the beating of the retreat was done by the Gurkhas and it was unforgettable. To the day I die I will always remember it.

It has been more than three years since the joint technical report on the British Gurkha case was exchanged between two Governments on 22 March 2018 at Whitehall in London, which was the basis for a dialogue to address the main concerns of the British Gurkhas—the very thing that every person in the Chamber has said today. To date the silence has been deafening and it is time we stepped up and stepped in, just as the Gurkhas have done for us. In his intervention, the hon. Member for Greenwich and Woolwich (Matthew Pennycook) referred to the bravery of the Gurkhas and how they deserved equal treatment simply because they fought in the same theatres of war alongside those who have got the full pension, which the hon. Member for Glasgow North West (Carol Monaghan) referred to, that the Gurkhas do not have.

People have made clear their opinion in signing the petition—as clear as a bell and as clear as it can be. There can be no doubt whatsoever that they do not believe we are doing the right thing, so the issue for us and the Minister, for whom I have the utmost respect, is that we are not doing the right thing, as the hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent North said. I am sure that those who have already spoken and the shadow spokespersons who will speak afterwards do not believe that we are doing the right thing.

At what stage will we decide to do the right thing by those brave men and their families? It is not just about the soldiers; it is about their families as well. They deserve the pension. They have honoured us. They have delivered and they deserve to have it. How many petitions will it take? How many protests? How many demonstrations? How many hunger strikes? There have already been too many.

The Minister must help us with a response that outlines the steps that will be taken to ensure that parity is restored with the other arms of our armed forces. I read in an article in The Daily Express that one of the Gurkhas who took part in the hunger strike said that he received just £47 a month after he retired, while his British counterparts got £600—a sixteenfold difference.

[Seema Malhotra]

Normally, it is the hon. Member who intervenes on me, so it is a great honour to intervene on him. He makes an important point about the huge difference in payments received. Does he agree that one of the reasons behind that inequality was the assumption that many would go back to Nepal who did not do so, and that we need to understand and address the reality of their lives, not the assumption that was made many decades ago?

[Jim Shannon]

The hon. Lady is right: it is not about the assumption. The debate is about the reality for the Gurkha soldiers and where they are. The hon. Member for Glasgow North West referred to the fact that today such a soldier receives £350 a month compared with £1,200 for former British soldiers—an £850 difference. Is that parity? Is that equality? Is that right? No, it is not, and therefore it is clear to me that we have to try to do something.

When the Gurkhas fight, no one can accuse them of being second-class warriors. Their courage is equal, if not better, on some occasions. They are in a class of their own, yet they demand only parity, equity and fairness. They fought alongside other regiments, more often than not at the forefront in battle, and deserve the same benefits, pensions and welfare as their colleagues have received. How many right-thinking persons could argue that this is not a debt that is owed, and that we have a role to play in ensuring the payment of that debt? I certainly cannot, and therefore I am proud to stand, along with others, with the Gurkhas, as they have stood for freedom and democracy under the banner of our monarchy, and of our Queen, and before that our King.

I understand, of course, that talks are set to begin between the UK and Nepal in the form of a bilateral committee to discuss all Gurkha veteran welfare issues. However, I put on the record that there is a concern, which appears valid to me, that that talking shop will deliver the same results as previous attempts: nothing of consequence. I ask the veterans Minister whether he can tell us, and state for the record in Hansard, what he expects the bilateral talks to deliver for the Gurkhas. That is what we want: delivery for the Gurkhas.

Aviation Sector

Debate between Jim Shannon and Seema Malhotra

Thursday 10th September 2020 Commons Chamber

[Seema Malhotra (Feltham and Heston) (Lab/Co-op)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Erith and Thamesmead (Abena Oppong-Asare) on securing this debate and the Chair of the Transport Committee on his work, his support and his Committee’s excellent report.

My remarks today reflect the situation around Heathrow, but are not limited to it. I thank and commend the local authorities around west London, and also west London business, Brunel University and others, for their remarkable efforts to come together for local rescue and recovery plans. I also welcome the call for an aviation communities fund from local authorities, particularly to support re-skilling, business growth and infrastructure.

This is a national emergency and the impact of not acting now to secure an aviation deal and to support businesses and aviation communities in the next few weeks will be devastating. The cost to the state will be far greater than the cost of measures to get us through even to the spring, when many companies expect to see demand grow. The message from employers is clear: aviation is much more than airports and airlines. It is the aviation fuel companies, retail, baggage handling, hospitality, security, logistics, facilities management, engineering, airline catering and much, much more. Their needs are different—some are paid for each flight, some are paid per passenger, and some are paid for services such as meals on flights—but their sustained success depends on each other. It is urgent to act now, because section 188 notices are being issued as companies plan for what they expect to be the end of furlough at the end of October.

[Jim Shannon]

One of the suggestions that the unions and others have put forward is that Her Majesty’s Government could mitigate the level of redundancies to recognise that those the hon. Lady has referred to, who could be made redundant, will have been paying national insurance of some 14% and their pensions as employees, while also saving the UK benefits and redundancy payments. Her Majesty’s Government could provide some funding—perhaps 25% funding—for each employee’s wages to retain the skills and, at the same time, ensure that the business can get to January and November next year where it needs to get to.

[Seema Malhotra]

The hon. Member makes a very important point. Indeed, may I put on record my thanks to Unite, GMB and the other unions that I have been working with for all that they have done, day in, day out, to support workers and their businesses? He also makes a very important point about the retention of skills. Airport businesses have said to me that it takes six to nine months to train somebody to work in such a complex environment. Even cleaning an aircraft is as much about understanding security and counter-terrorism as it is about being able to serve all those passengers and the company. I thank him for making that point, because it links to the issue that this is about not just individual employees, but our readiness to recover when the time comes and keeping our businesses in place.

It is important to act now. Tens of thousands of jobs could be saved by a flexible extension to furlough, allowing employers to have employees on reduced hours perhaps, which will mean that families are supported to pay their bills and to stay in work. If the Chancellor and the Transport Secretary do not do this, they are simply passing a preventable problem over to an already stretched Department for Work and Pensions. In Feltham and Heston alone, there has been a 74% increase—to more than 19,000 people— in the number of people on universal credit. The local citizens advice bureau has talked about the level of inquiries it has had on debt. People are now being forced to borrow from loan sharks to pay one bill as another red letter looms.

Prevention and Suppression of Terrorism

Debate between Jim Shannon and Seema Malhotra

Wednesday 26th February 2020 Commons Chamber

[Jim Shannon]

I thank the Minister for that, which is very positive. I always expect positivity from the Minister whenever the opportunity arises, and it very clearly has tonight.

[Seema Malhotra (Feltham and Heston) (Lab/Co-op)]

I thank the hon. Member for his very important contribution. Does he agree with me that it may be useful to hear from the Minister about updates in relation to other police forces, and whether there could be a more systematic way in which police forces, perhaps like the Met, update Members of Parliament about where there may be growing threats in our regions or local areas?

[Jim Shannon]

Yes, I wholeheartedly agree. I think there probably is a method in place for doing that already. I believe there is—I know it is done in different ways in this House and outside this House—and I know that the Minister’s role as a former Secretary of State for Northern Ireland gives him a real insight into what happens in Northern Ireland.

I wanted to ask that question because my understanding is that there is a growth in right-wing extremism in the Province, probably masquerading under the proscribed organisations already there. I know it is very important, so could I, for the record, gently refer to the IRA dissident threat? It is still very clearly there for police officers and prison officers, with booby-traps under their cars. A large bomb, destined for the Larne ferry, was found and thwarted by the police and intelligence officers—and a real biggie that would have been for the IRA. Again, however, it shows that police forces are on top of that. It is very clear to me that this is a salient reminder that IRA terrorists and IRA dissidents in particular are just as dangerous in the United Kingdom, as indeed are ISIS terrorists.

The Minister referred to going for the assets. I welcome his comment, but could we have a bit more detail, if possible, for the record? It is so important that the assets of such organisations are targeted and focused on in order to take away the money and the opportunity that they quite clearly have. In Northern Ireland, paramilitary groups are involved in drug dealing, trafficking, protection rackets and all of those things. Again, I understand that the close contacts between paramilitary and right-wing organisations in Northern Ireland and those on the mainland involve all the spheres of fundraising that they are trying to use.