No Recourse to Public Funds

Debate between Jim Shannon and Beth Winter

Wednesday 15th May 2024 Westminster Hall

[Beth Winter (Cynon Valley) (Lab)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered the matter of no recourse to public funds

Diolch yn fawr, Ms Rees. It really is a pleasure to serve under your chairship for this short debate. I am grateful for the opportunity to raise the no recourse to public funds conditions, which I am aware have been discussed previously in Parliament. For example, my right hon. Friend the Member for East Ham (Sir Stephen Timms), who is the Chair of the Work and Pensions Committee, made a number of requests of the Government a year ago, most of which have not been addressed, hence the fundamental need to continue pressing the Government to recognise and react to the hardships caused by no recourse to public funds. It is inhumane, it is cruel, and it is forcing some of the most vulnerable people into poverty and hardship.

I sought this debate because I was inspired, as we so often are in this place, by a meeting with a local constituent who is in need of support and whom I believe has been failed by the current system. My constituent accompanied her husband to Wales as a student, also bringing their children, several years ago. An unfortunate and unexpected diagnosis of a serious health issue compromised their ability to work and be self-sufficient, so the constituent has no recourse to public funds and has been reliant on a local charity for support with housing and other costs, but that too has now ended due to a lack of funds. We are living in a cost of living crisis, and the family is struggling on a daily basis, unable to pay rent, utilities and bills. We as an office have supported the family as much as possible with food bank vouchers and by co-ordinating with local churches. We should not have to do that. They should not have to come to us for help and support; it should be provided as a basic need and right wherever and however people come to our country.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I congratulate the hon. Member for Cynon Valley (Beth Winter). Does she agree that we must ensure that anyone who has a right to be in this country has access to food and medical care, no matter what form that right to be here takes, and that there is a basic level of moral obligation that anyone in this nation should expect to be fulfilled?

[Beth Winter]

I thank the hon. Member for his intervention and I wholeheartedly agree. It is a moral duty for us as human beings to provide the basics for anybody to survive. I am very aware of the detrimental impact that no recourse to public funds has on the health and wellbeing of far too many people. The exclusion of people with a no recourse to public funds restriction from the benefits system increases their risk of living in destitution and puts significant pressure on local authority services. Millions of people—an estimated 2.6 million at the end of 2022—resident in the UK with temporary leave to remain are subject to no recourse to public funds conditions, which prevent them from accessing most welfare benefits and social housing. The cost of living crisis has affected people across the country, but increases in energy bills and food prices have a greater impact on low-income households.

Ann Clwyd

Debate between Jim Shannon and Beth Winter

Tuesday 19th September 2023 Commons Chamber

[Beth Winter]

I thank my hon. Friend for that intervention.

Ann understood the need to keep jobs in local communities. Tyrone O’Sullivan, leader of the Tower Colliery buy-out, who sadly also passed away earlier this year, spoke at an event for Ann that was organised in March last year by our local Labour women’s branch in Cynon Valley. Tyrone acknowledged and celebrated Ann’s contribution to the fight for Tower Colliery, and he reminded me, only weeks before his death, of the importance of the working-class struggle for today. They showed the way to build local economies, building local wealth for local people, not encouraging local people to leave in order to get on in life. I share that vision and I try to carry on in the same vein with my work on the local economy in Cynon Valley.

Ann fought battles on behalf of miners. When she became MP, our constituency was in the throes of fighting to keep the mining industry alive. Next year, we will remember 40 years since the 1984 miners’ strike—the year when Ann became MP for Cynon Valley. I was, as a child, on the demonstration through the town of Aberdare with Ann. In her maiden speech in Parliament, Ann said that the miners’ strike was

“a symbolic fight, a fight against the two Britains—the haves and the have nots. It is a protest on behalf of a lost generation of young men and women who have never been able to find a job in the valleys of South Wales.”

That fight continues. Public service workers, rail workers and health workers today are fighting against two Britains—the haves and the have nots.

Ann also fought tirelessly for compensation for miners suffering health problems as a result of their work. As she said in the same speech:

“It is a heartbreaking experience—I wish that Conservative Members could share it—to see a miner gasping for breath even while using an oxygen mask. Yet, because he has not been diagnosed as suffering from pneumoconiosis, he does not get a penny in compensation. That is more than wrong, it is cruel and unjust.”—[Official Report, 7 June 1984; Vol. 61, c. 476-77.]

I, like other Members in the Chamber, am currently involved in the ongoing battle for miners’ pension rights and compensation, so again the fight goes on; the thread of history continues.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I commend the hon. Lady for securing the debate. I know that I have not been in the House as long as other Members who will speak, but I just wanted to add a very quick contribution if she will allow me.

When I came here in 2010, Ann Clwyd would sit just about there, and I sat here. She was always a very strong and determined lady—I found her a lady of strong will. Although she was always charming and had a lovely smile, I always figured that it would not be a good thing to get on the wrong side of her. I have always been surrounded by strong ladies so I know how to adapt to that.

Here is a story. Ann was sitting here one night during an Adjournment debate, with just the Minister, the previous Mr Speaker and—as usual for the Adjournment, as everyone knows—myself in the Chamber. Her phone went off and was ringing quite loudly. I looked up at her and she never flinched. The phone kept ringing. I looked at Mr Speaker, and he mumbled something to me like, “Get the handbag!” So I took the handbag, with the ringing phone, out the back and left it there. I could still hear it ringing away, but I could not get it turned off—that was part of the problem.

I have one other quick wee story. Ann loved cats with a passion, as does my wife, so when Ann brought in her bags with cats on them, I said, “You and my wife would get on because she loves cats as well.” Ann left an impression on me, an MP since 2010, and I think it only right that the hon. Member for Cynon Valley (Beth Winter) has secured this debate. It is lovely to see Ann’s family—I had never met any of you before tonight. I say well done to the hon. Lady. We have fond, fond memories of a special lady.

[Beth Winter]

I thank my hon. Friend.

Ann also advocated strongly against cuts to benefits, recognising the need to fight against poverty and any policies that would further impoverish people. Her stand on any attempts to cut benefits is an ongoing battle that many of us continue to fight as the cost of living crisis hits the poorest the hardest.

Tackling Loneliness and Connecting Communities

Debate between Jim Shannon and Beth Winter

Wednesday 21st June 2023 Westminster Hall

[Beth Winter (Cynon Valley) (Lab)]

I congratulate the hon. Member for Chatham and Aylesford (Tracey Crouch) on securing this important debate and on her work on tackling loneliness. I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Batley and Spen (Kim Leadbeater) for the excellent work she does through her sister’s foundation—the Jo Cox Foundation—and the Great Get Together events today. It is so important, so I thank her.

I start by reiterating the importance of definitions. As has already been said, the Campaign to End Loneliness defines loneliness as a “subjective” feeling—that is really important—and states:

“It happens when there is a mismatch between the quantity and quality of the social relationships that we have, and those that we want”.

The UK is experiencing an epidemic of loneliness. That was recognised in the recent update review of the loneliness report, which refers to loneliness as a crisis in the United Kingdom. I know that the Minister is well aware of that.

In the short time that I have in which to speak, I want to focus on loneliness among older people, which is very close to my heart. Age UK has reported that close to 1.5 million older people are often lonely. CFAS Wales—the cognitive function and ageing study—found that more than a quarter of older people in Wales reported being lonely. Before entering Parliament, I worked as a researcher in Swansea University for close to 10 years, and I worked on the CFAS project in the Centre for Innovative Ageing. One of our areas of specialism was loneliness among older people. I thank my colleagues at Swansea University—in particular, my mentor, Professor Ness Burholt, and a friend of mine, Dr Deborah Morgan—for their outstanding and groundbreaking work on the prevalence, symptoms, experience and impact of loneliness among older people, not only in Wales but internationally.

The research for my PhD on social exclusion among older people in rural areas of Wales found a correlation between levels of loneliness, people’s situations in their life course and societal changes. It found that there were lower levels of loneliness during the pre-second world war period and the post-war Keynesian period, but that it has increased since the onset of neoliberalism in the late 1970s. That individualist culture still dominates our society today. I will return to that later when I look at the solutions to tackling loneliness.

As others have already said, loneliness can and does have an absolutely devastating impact on individuals’ mental and physical health. It is associated with an increased risk of coronary heart disease, stroke and high blood pressure, and there are risk factors for the progression of frailty. It puts individuals at a greater risk of cognitive decline and dementia, and increases early mortality by more than a quarter.

As others have outlined, the evidence overwhelmingly shows that the decade and a half of austerity and the cost of living crisis have had a direct impact on loneliness in the United Kingdom. For instance, Age UK research reveals that more than 4 million over-60s are cutting back on social and leisure activities to make ends meet. What assessment has the Minister made of the impact of the cost of living crisis on loneliness?

Although my research and work experience focused on loneliness among older people, which is linked to social exclusion, loneliness knows no bounds; it can affect anybody of any age and background, and at different times in their life course. Loneliness is higher now among younger people. The incidence is higher among single or widowed females, people with mental health conditions, people who are renting and people who have lower levels of social trust. It affects working people: nearly half of people in employment experience loneliness at some time.

Loneliness is also prevalent here in Parliament. I commend the hon. Member for Brighton, Pavilion (Caroline Lucas) not only for her outstanding work as a parliamentarian—in particular, on the climate crisis—but for her honesty for saying in a recent interview:

“It’s lonely within parliament, yes, definitely.”

Much more needs to be done within this bubble, as I call it, to acknowledge and tackle loneliness and isolation.

[Jim Shannon]

Far too often, the people who are a joy to everyone around them can be very lonely. In my time as an elected representative, I have often seen that those who are the life and soul of the party suffer most from loneliness. The hon. Lady is right to underline that the visual impression does not always tell us what is happening inside.

[Beth Winter]

The definition is so important because it is a subjective experience, and we need to be very aware of that.

I will turn to tackling loneliness. At the UK level, the creation of a Minister for loneliness and the strategy on loneliness is welcome. The Welsh Government’s initiative “Connected communities: A strategy for tackling loneliness and isolation and building stronger social connections” is also welcome. It contains four key priorities: increasing opportunities for people to connect; a community infrastructure that supports connected communities; cohesive and supportive communities; and building awareness and promoting positive attitudes. Although the resources attached to those strategies are welcome, they are clearly insufficient and more funding is required.

Crucially, if we are ever going to tackle the underlying causes of this epidemic, as I said, we must accept that it is inextricably linked to other societal developments and changes. One example is the shift from a collectivist to an individualist society, and the resultant loss of a sense of belonging and community cohesion. The neoliberal approach that we live under also exacerbates levels of loneliness and there is a lot of academic research to confirm that. Austerity and the cost of living crisis make it impossible for many people to engage in social activities. There is also the rise of the digital age. I could go on. There are multifaceted indicators and causes of loneliness. If we are ever going to challenge and tackle the scourge of loneliness, we need fundamental, transformative societal change.

The Red Cross supplied us with a number of questions for the Minister, and I want to take the opportunity to pose some of them. What will the Government do to incentivise local authorities and their partners to develop local action plans to tackle loneliness, to invest in community and social infrastructure, to loneliness-proof all transport and housing developments, and to close the digital divide by increasing digital skills and confidence? The Minister may already have those questions to hand; I am interested to hear his response.

I will finish on a positive note. In my constituency of Cynon Valley—which is the best place in the world to live and I welcome anybody to come at any time—we are doing so much to retain and revitalise community connections and our sense of belonging, taking a grassroots, holistic approach. I say “we” because I feel privileged to live there and to go to these brilliant events. They range from the brilliant Men’s Sheds in Hirwaun YMCA to a thriving youth club. I do not know how it has not closed because of austerity, but there is passion and determination in the community, and we have managed to retain that youth club.

In Aberdare, Age Connects has transformed an old people’s day centre into a community hub for all ages, with a whole range of activities. It really is the hub of the community. Down the other end of the valley, Bryncynon Strategy has done a lot of life history work with older people, learning about our heritage and our mining background. It really is a way of befriending and engaging with older people. There has also been a huge revival in choirs in south Wales, so if people are interested in music, they should come to visit us.

I am always optimistic, but I do have hope for a better, inclusive society, filled with care, compassion and kindness, where we respect people and treat them with dignity. Surely we can all agree that is not too much to ask. Diolch yn fawr.