Further Education Funding

Debate between Jim Shannon and Anne Milton

Tuesday 2nd April 2019 Westminster Hall

[Anne Milton]

I will come to that point in a minute.

[Jim Shannon]

Will the Minister give way?

[Anne Milton]

I would love to give way to lots of hon. Members, but time does not allow. I will make some progress.

FE delivers not only high-quality provision for 16 to 19-year-olds but lifelong learning, which was mentioned briefly. As we heard in a moving story from one hon. Member, it gives people chances to learn that they never had as a young person and the opportunity to retrain when their skills become outdated, to gain higher qualifications and to move along the career path. It also provides patient and caring support for those who are struggling to gain basic skills, opportunities for families to learn together and support for parents to help their children, as we all want to help ours. Although further education’s breadth is its strength, that breadth makes it hard to define: it is not school, but it is not university, so we need to articulate a clear vision.

As hon. Members have noted, funding per student has not kept up with costs. For 16 to 19-year-olds, we have protected the base rate of funding at £4,000 until the end of this spending review period, but that has been eroded by inflation. The Association of Colleges and the Raise the Rate campaign’s funding impact survey report have highlighted many of the issues and financial challenges. Reductions in 16-to-19 funding over recent years have partly been due to falling numbers of students; the number of 16 to 18-year-olds in the population has been falling for 10 years. The level is now 10% lower than in 2008-09, which poses difficult challenges for the sector, but it will start to increase again from 2020.

FE colleges are complex institutions that need to manage ebbs and flows in training provision and finance. On average, vocational courses cost more per student than academic programmes, so we provide more funding for most vocational courses for 16 to 19-year-olds through the programme cost weights. Further education institutions therefore actually receive more funding per 16 to 19-year-old student than school sixth forms, but that is purely a reflection of the greater costs.

I think that the thrust of the message from my hon. Friend the Member for Gloucester was that we need to do more to help our colleges. My hon. Friend the Member for South West Bedfordshire (Andrew Selous) spoke about the productivity potential of people who attend FE and about fairness. My hon. Friend the Member for Colchester (Will Quince) spoke about equality of opportunity; I wonder whether he might send a nice YouTube clip of this debate to the Chancellor, who I am sure would find it riveting. My right hon. Friend the Member for Bexleyheath and Crayford (Sir David Evennett) rightly noted that, despite it all, 81% of colleges are rated as good or outstanding.

Our debates on FE put the case for it front and centre as a driver of social mobility. Bearing in mind the precious little time we have had today, I am sure that the opportunity for part 2 of this debate will come very shortly. My hon. Friend the Member for Clacton (Giles Watling) and the shadow Minister, the hon. Member for Blackpool South (Gordon Marsden), spoke about T-levels, which will receive an additional £500 million in funding when they are rolled out. In fact, it was in Clacton that I met a woman who said probably one of the most poignant things I have ever heard. She had left school with no qualifications and was a single parent with three children, but she had gone back and done level 2, level 3 and level 4 qualifications. When I met her, she was doing level 5. I asked her why she had done it—what had suddenly inspired her to do it when her children were in their teens? She said, “Because I thought I was worth it.” There is nothing better to hear.

Wages of FE staff are lower than in schools. FE staff are incredibly committed individuals who carry on because of the demonstrable difference that they make to young people’s lives. Further education colleges are independent and set their own wages, but that does not make recruitment and retention any easier.

Differences in life expectancy were briefly mentioned. One of the most significant correlators with poor health is level of education. Better-educated people have better health; I say that as a former public health Minister. The issue needs to be highlighted, and there may be an opportunity to expand this campaign into questions of health—I put that forward as a suggestion, and I am sure that my hon. Friend the Member for Gloucester and the hon. Member for Scunthorpe will take it on board.

One hon. Member spoke about second chances, and we often talk about third or fourth chances. I have had the privilege of seeing those fourth chances change people’s lives.

[Jim Shannon]

I congratulate the Minister and the hon. Member for Gloucester (Richard Graham) on their speeches. One of the great issues in my constituency is mature students who had a family early or who did not have much interest in education at school but pursued an interest in it at a later stage. Further education can give them that opportunity, as it does at South Eastern Regional College in my constituency. Does the Minister agree that mature students need opportunities in the same way that young people do?

[Anne Milton]

Very much so. This is absolutely about those second, third and fourth chances.

My hon. Friends the Members for Winchester (Steve Brine) and for Truro and Falmouth (Sarah Newton), both former superb Ministers, are now putting their weight behind the campaign to raise the profile of FE and highlight just how important it is for the prospects of young and—never let us forget—older people.

I am pleased to hear that my hon. Friend the Member for North Devon (Peter Heaton-Jones) met the Chief Secretary to the Treasury—keep on meeting her. We also heard from my right hon. Friend the Member for Ludlow (Mr Dunne) and my hon. Friends the Members for Cheltenham (Alex Chalk), for York Outer (Julian Sturdy), for Taunton Deane (Rebecca Pow), for Cleethorpes (Martin Vickers), for Stafford (Jeremy Lefroy), for Waveney (Peter Aldous) and for Northampton South (Andrew Lewer), among many others. They all made excellent contributions.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Jim Shannon and Anne Milton

Thursday 20th December 2018 Commons Chamber

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I offer best wishes for a merry Christmas to you, Mr Speaker, and to everyone in the House, from me as the Member of Parliament for Strangford, and from all my Strangford constituents who are very much involved in these issues.

Will the Minister outline whether funding is available for already trained teachers to be trained in either TESOL, the teaching of English to speakers of other languages, or CELTA, the certificate in teaching English to speakers of other languages, to teach English within communities and community centres?

[Anne Milton]

I will have to get back to the hon. Gentleman to ensure that I give him a precise answer. We are undertaking a trial this year and fully funding adults who earn less than the pay threshold of the Social Mobility and Child Poverty Commission—just under £16,000. Encouraging women to get on English language courses and improve their skills is an important area to focus on. We are talking about women who are just in employment and on very low wages and who, of course, face significant difficulties if they lose their jobs—their progress will be limited by that.

Skills Strategy

Debate between Jim Shannon and Anne Milton

Tuesday 8th May 2018 Westminster Hall

[Anne Milton]

I am very mindful of that, which is why I have frequent meetings—I think weekly or every other week; certainly once a month—with the careers team in the Department for Education. The need to do this was introduced only in January, so we are in quite early days, but I will watch this, because the proof of the pudding will be in whether it actually happens.

My right hon. Friend rightly pointed out that teachers could do with some of this advice, because a classroom teacher might have left school, gone to university and got their degree, done their teaching qualification in whatever way they wanted, and never experienced the world of work outside the institutional school environment, and that experience is critical. I suggested that to a number of careers professionals the other day. It would be really worthwhile, particularly in the local economy, so that teachers understand the needs of local businesses and can tailor their whole approach to them. A career is what someone does after school, and that should be the thread that runs through everything they do within school. Otherwise, if someone is like I was at school, they will say, “What’s the point of all this?” That is absolutely critical.

[Jim Shannon]

I will not hold the Minister back for long. In my intervention on the right hon. Member for Harlow (Robert Halfon), I suggested perhaps looking at the Northern Ireland system, where education and IT skills are coming together. I wonder whether the Minister has had a chance to consider that.

[Anne Milton]

The hon. Gentleman is right; the Government should not be too proud to learn from anywhere that is doing well. We have set off on a course, but it is not restricted and I will pick up on anything that makes this process work.

We have seen good progress, certainly on raising the quality of apprenticeships. We have gone from 3% of apprenticeships on standards up to 36%, which is well beyond what we expected. We are making progress. The opening up of degree apprenticeships is critical, and my right hon. Friend is right that it will help achieve that parity of esteem for apprenticeships. I think we will start to see a huge tide of degree apprenticeships coming forward, because employers will get not only people with the required academic qualifications, but people with the skills. For a young person leaving school, of course, it is a no-brainer; they are getting paid, they are getting a qualification and they will have no student debt. What is not to like about that?

Achieving that parity of esteem is important. My right hon. Friend talked about a holistic education, which is so important. There is a wonderful scheme in my patch—I was with it on Friday—whereby one of the independent schools provides a year’s worth of stringed instrument teaching to year 3 pupils. It is funded by the local community foundation. Royal Grammar School Guildford has been really supportive. That increases young people’s knowledge of things. They will not necessarily all go on to learn an instrument, but it widens and broadens their experience, so they will think of other things, and that will filter through everything they do.

Work experience is important because, as my right hon. Friend rightly said, we must be careful not to draw a sharp distinction between technical and academic education, with pupils feeling that they have to choose between one or the other. The two must be interwoven, and degree apprenticeships are a way of doing that, whether at age 18, 19, 20 or whatever point. He talked about that as a ladder of progression, but I sometimes see it as a path, because a lot of the apprentices I have met have maybe done one or two level 2 apprenticeships, trying to find out which way they want to go and which is the best career option for them, while at the same time improving their skills and aptitude, and their ability to understand the knowledges and behaviours needed within the general workplace, rather than in one specific workplace.

I share, with a passion, my right hon. Friend’s view that we need to do this for the economy of the country, because employers are desperate for the skills. Employers now have the means to employ apprentices—those paying the levy and, soon, those not paying the levy. The means are there. What matters now is that we make the system work, because for me, as for him, it is a matter of social justice.

Question put and agreed to.

NHS (Foreign Nationals)

Debate between Jim Shannon and Anne Milton

Tuesday 22nd May 2012 Westminster Hall

[Anne Milton]

It will bring the focus closer to home. I would expect the shadow Minister to welcome this change, because GPs will now be much more acutely aware that registration with them should not automatically entitle people to NHS acute trust care. We are undertaking a review that I will mention in my concluding remarks. It is early days in respect of the UK Border Agency and the change in the immigration rules, so we do not have sufficient information adequately to evaluate how effective they are, but I think that we will see a significant impact. The shadow Minister asked specifically about the Olympics.

[Jim Shannon]

The Minister said that £14 million in debts was written off by the Government. Do the Government contact the countries that people have come from to try to recover some of those debts, or is it too costly administratively to do that? Is it cheaper to write off debts than to chase them up?

[Anne Milton]

That is true of all debts. Trusts are not always aware of the rules and the obligations placed on them. Sometimes, they do not have the infrastructure in place to chase such debts and sometimes the costs of chasing debts are greater than the debts themselves, so they write them off. Either way, it is clearly not fair on the taxpayer. West Middlesex is an exemplar. We in the NHS are not good at sharing best practice, but practice at West Middlesex should be spread more widely.

Back in 2005, when the Labour Government were in power, as part of the UK’s successful bid for the 2012 Olympics they committed to provide games family members with free medical care. The games family is a tightly defined group of people—athletes and their support teams, officials, accredited media and IOC members—who are directly involved in taking part in or supporting the games. We have introduced a specific exemption for those people in respect of hospital treatment that might otherwise be chargeable, which will last for only nine weeks around the time of the Games and will be limited to treatment, the need for which arises here, so pre-planned or routine ongoing treatment that can wait will not be free. Normal charging rules will apply to all other visitors, including those coming to see the games.

The NHS has been briefed to be particularly vigilant in screening visitors who seek treatment and in applying the charging rules, given the large influx of visitors to the country. Let me reassure the residents of Hackney—the shadow Minister rightly said that Homerton is one of the designated hospitals—that treatment will be given on the basis of need. Local people should not suffer at all as a result of these rules which, as the shadow Minister will be aware, were an important part of the previous Government’s bid.

My hon. Friend has mentioned some of the details of our review. It is important that there should be qualifying criteria, a full range of other criteria exempting services or visitors from charges, and criteria for charging for services outside hospital, as we move towards more care being delivered outside hospitals. We need to be mindful of costs that could be incurred, thereby ensuring that we have more efficient and effective processes throughout the NHS, including the ability to screen eligibility. Let me reassure the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) that it is important that we work closely with the devolved Administrations, and have close discussions with them, to ensure that there are not unforeseen and unintended consequences.

Once again I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Kingswood for introducing the debate, and I thank hon. Members for the balanced, moderate nature of the discussion. It is important that we set an example—all parties desire to do so—and demonstrate to the public that such difficult issues, which can involve distinct communities, can be discussed and considered in a fair and balanced way and are matters of cross-party concern, with all political parties working together. It is not becoming for any politician to score party political points on an issue of such fundamental importance to the taxpayers of this country.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Jim Shannon and Anne Milton

Tuesday 22nd November 2011 Commons Chamber

[Anne Milton]

I thank my hon. Friend, and I will take this opportunity to praise again the work of midwives and the Royal College of Midwives. It was a pleasure to be at its conference only last week. I would point out that there are now more than 20,000 full-time equivalent midwives. That is an increase of 2.4% on last year. We have record numbers of midwives in training, with 2,493 this year and an increase on that next year. What matters is that we get the right services for women who are pregnant, ensure that they can exercise the choices that they need, and get the right skills mix.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

Figures today reveal that older women are being discriminated against in breast cancer treatment, with some 20% of women over 65 receiving chemotherapy compared with some 70% of women under 50. Will the Minister assure the House that those who are over 65 will receive equitable treatment, and that this discrimination will stop?