Westminster Hall is an alternative Chamber for MPs to hold debates, named after the adjoining Westminster Hall.
Each debate is chaired by an MP from the Panel of Chairs, rather than the Speaker or Deputy Speaker. A Government Minister will give the final speech, and no votes may be called on the debate topic.
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The Minister for Apprenticeships and Skills (Anne Milton)
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Hollobone. I congratulate my right hon. Friend the Member for Harlow (Robert Halfon) on securing the debate. I am grateful for the opportunity to talk in broader terms. I have a great pile of briefings from my wonderful officials, which I will not refer to at all, because I would be telling him things that he probably already knows. He makes a wider point about why skills matter, and he is absolutely right that we have a significant skills shortage in this country.
I was at the WorldSkills competition in Abu Dhabi last year, and there was also a conference where I met many Ministers from Germany and Singapore—there were a whole host of them there. It is clear that we have a world skills shortage; it is not just in this country, although some countries are perhaps doing slightly better. One of the Ministers I talked to attributed their success in technical education, particularly at levels 4 and 5, largely to embedding maths and English so well in the curriculum. When young people came out of that skills system, it was a given that they had reached a high standard, so they could get on and take the academic or technical route that they wanted.
As my right hon. Friend rightly said, surrounding all that is this country’s economic need for a skilled workforce, but it is also about social justice. I did not go to private school and I did not have the networks that my right hon. Friend referred to, which many people have. In fact, I entered politics knowing almost nothing and absolutely nobody. I had to make it up on my own, which was fine for me—I chose politics as a second career—but it is not all right for a young person leaving school at whatever age. It should not be about who someone knows or actually about what they know, or where they live or where they come from; it should be about what skills they have.
My right hon. Friend talked about what employers are looking for. Like him, I have heard that reiterated to me time and again. It is about resilience, attitude, team playing, problem solving and aptitude. Those will not be learned only in the classroom. He also talked about the narrow focus of the curriculum. In some ways, there has been a focus on some of those academic subjects for exactly the reason a Minister from another country pointed out to me: a good foundation in certain key subjects, such as English, maths and digital skills, is important. However, it is also important to widen young people’s eyes to the opportunities that are out there.
My right hon. Friend talked about employer experience, which is critical, particularly for children who are not doing particularly well at school, who are bored in lessons and who do not understand the point of it. Contact with employers demonstrates to them why they are learning those things. It gives them a goal and an aim; it makes it all make sense. Without that it is much harder, particularly for people who, for whatever reason—not necessarily to do with how bright they are—find school slightly more challenging.
Experience of the working world also prepares children to go on to the next stage. I am a mother of four children, and all four worked weekend jobs when they could, and certainly during the holidays. That gave them invaluable experience, because the errors they made will have stood them in very good stead when they went to university or into a job after leaving school.
My right hon. Friend is quite right that the glue around that is the provision of careers advice. Ever since I was at school, which was a very long time ago, I do not think we have got that right. The careers strategy that we published last year is a step in exactly the right direction. It is not necessarily particularly tidy, but the way to reach young people these days is not simply an hour-long lesson with a careers teacher; it has to be much more than that. At the end of the previous Parliament, he was responsible for changes to the Bill that meant that providers of technical education and of apprenticeships must be allowed into schools, which opens young people’s eyes to other possibilities.
John Howell
A difficulty in my constituency is that the sixth-form colleges do apprenticeships and skills training very well but ordinary schools do not; they are still wedded to an academic view of life. Does my right hon. Friend share my view?
Anne Milton
Yes. My hon. Friend mentioned an organisation in his constituency and its apprenticeship hub, and I commend that local initiative. I have seen something similar down in Gosport that showed an absolutely groundbreaking attitude. He is right that careers advice in schools has traditionally not always been very good.
Robert Halfon
I thank my right hon. Friend for what she said. She mentioned the legislation ensuring that schools have to invite apprenticeship organisations and university technical colleges into schools and further education colleges. What is she doing to enforce that? There are suggestions—and there have been a number of reports—that schools are not actually implementing the legislation.
Anne Milton
I am very mindful of that, which is why I have frequent meetings—I think weekly or every other week; certainly once a month—with the careers team in the Department for Education. The need to do this was introduced only in January, so we are in quite early days, but I will watch this, because the proof of the pudding will be in whether it actually happens.
My right hon. Friend rightly pointed out that teachers could do with some of this advice, because a classroom teacher might have left school, gone to university and got their degree, done their teaching qualification in whatever way they wanted, and never experienced the world of work outside the institutional school environment, and that experience is critical. I suggested that to a number of careers professionals the other day. It would be really worthwhile, particularly in the local economy, so that teachers understand the needs of local businesses and can tailor their whole approach to them. A career is what someone does after school, and that should be the thread that runs through everything they do within school. Otherwise, if someone is like I was at school, they will say, “What’s the point of all this?” That is absolutely critical.
Jim Shannon
I will not hold the Minister back for long. In my intervention on the right hon. Member for Harlow (Robert Halfon), I suggested perhaps looking at the Northern Ireland system, where education and IT skills are coming together. I wonder whether the Minister has had a chance to consider that.
Anne Milton
The hon. Gentleman is right; the Government should not be too proud to learn from anywhere that is doing well. We have set off on a course, but it is not restricted and I will pick up on anything that makes this process work.
We have seen good progress, certainly on raising the quality of apprenticeships. We have gone from 3% of apprenticeships on standards up to 36%, which is well beyond what we expected. We are making progress. The opening up of degree apprenticeships is critical, and my right hon. Friend is right that it will help achieve that parity of esteem for apprenticeships. I think we will start to see a huge tide of degree apprenticeships coming forward, because employers will get not only people with the required academic qualifications, but people with the skills. For a young person leaving school, of course, it is a no-brainer; they are getting paid, they are getting a qualification and they will have no student debt. What is not to like about that?
Achieving that parity of esteem is important. My right hon. Friend talked about a holistic education, which is so important. There is a wonderful scheme in my patch—I was with it on Friday—whereby one of the independent schools provides a year’s worth of stringed instrument teaching to year 3 pupils. It is funded by the local community foundation. Royal Grammar School Guildford has been really supportive. That increases young people’s knowledge of things. They will not necessarily all go on to learn an instrument, but it widens and broadens their experience, so they will think of other things, and that will filter through everything they do.
Work experience is important because, as my right hon. Friend rightly said, we must be careful not to draw a sharp distinction between technical and academic education, with pupils feeling that they have to choose between one or the other. The two must be interwoven, and degree apprenticeships are a way of doing that, whether at age 18, 19, 20 or whatever point. He talked about that as a ladder of progression, but I sometimes see it as a path, because a lot of the apprentices I have met have maybe done one or two level 2 apprenticeships, trying to find out which way they want to go and which is the best career option for them, while at the same time improving their skills and aptitude, and their ability to understand the knowledges and behaviours needed within the general workplace, rather than in one specific workplace.
I share, with a passion, my right hon. Friend’s view that we need to do this for the economy of the country, because employers are desperate for the skills. Employers now have the means to employ apprentices—those paying the levy and, soon, those not paying the levy. The means are there. What matters now is that we make the system work, because for me, as for him, it is a matter of social justice.
Question put and agreed to.