Offences Against the Person Act 1861

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Tuesday 5th June 2018 Commons Chamber

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

Thank you, Mr Speaker, for the opportunity to speak on this issue. I ask all right hon. and hon. Members in the Chamber to respect our hard-held and heartfelt views and opinions, which may be different from those held by some who have spoken, but may be in kilter with some who have not. This debate is an opportunistic move on the back of the so-called momentum of the Irish referendum to bring abortion on demand to the UK with no restrictions. That is my opinion. It may not be the opinion of everybody in this place, but that is how I feel about it. Let me be clear that the change would mean that babies could be removed from the womb and disposed of when their hearts are beating, and I am diametrically opposed to that for several reasons.

I have stood in this Chamber to speak to, and have written to, many people whom I think have power—Ministers, permanent secretaries and Secretaries of State—asking them to allocate and release funding to address the crisis point that our health and education services have reached. Devolution demands that Stormont makes major policy determinations, not Members of this place. Why are we debating this issue yet not taking the reins and addressing the A&E crisis and GP surgery closures? Other Members have referred to that. We are debating just one issue; we are not debating the critical issues of how health and education works.

As far as I am concerned, the referendum in Ireland has no bearing on the democratic process in Northern Ireland—full stop. Ireland had a referendum because its constitution demanded it, and we have no need for one; we simply need a working Assembly. Does this mean so much to Michelle O’Neill, with her “North is next” statement? No, it does not. Is Northern Ireland next? Bring it to the Assembly and see how many Members of the Legislative Assembly put their name to the change. The last time this was debated in the Assembly, the decision, by 59 votes to 40, was to leave the law as it is. The decision was supported cross party and cross community, and there was no petition of concern. People can ignore that if they want, but it is a fact of life.

[Paul Girvan (South Antrim) (DUP)]

The last time this was debated in the Northern Ireland Assembly, there was evidence that many people have multiple abortions and are using it as a form of contraception.

[Jim Shannon]

I thank my hon. Friend for his comment.

[Frank Field (Birkenhead) (Lab)]

Does the hon. Gentleman agree that if this is such an important issue for Northern Ireland, it had best get its Assembly up and running quickly, otherwise we will increasingly find that this Chamber decides issues on behalf of Northern Ireland that should legitimately be decided by the Assembly itself? My vote is that we should never put women in the position of seeking back-street abortions—many of us will have older relatives who were in that position. This goes back to the fact that Northern Ireland needs to get its Assembly running.

[Jim Shannon]

I agree with the right hon. Gentleman that the Assembly should make that decision. I think we all want that to happen, and if the Assembly were making the decision, I am sure nothing in the existing legislation would change.

[Emma Little Pengelly]

We have heard a couple of references to back-street abortions. Does my hon. Friend agree there is no evidence of any back-street abortion activity—never mind an increase—in Northern Ireland? There are issues, and we have indicated that we will deal with those issues compassionately, but back-street abortion is not an issue in Northern Ireland, as far as we are aware.

[Jim Shannon]

I thank my hon. Friend for her factual evidence.

It is my belief that a child is a child from conception, as can increasingly be seen through medical advances. A heartbeat can clearly be seen from three weeks. One lady in my office said, “If a doctor declares you dead when your heart stops beating, you must be declared alive whenever your heart is beating.” My opinion is determined by the women around me: women who are religious and those who are not; women who have grieved after losing a baby at 12 weeks; and women who have carried their babies full term—I know quite a lot who have done that.

My opinion is formed by the use of the Abortion Act on the mainland. The 1967 Act was enacted with conditions, rules and criteria, but the situation we ended up with was abortion on demand. What are the facts? In 2015, there were 697,852 live births and 185,824 abortions in England and Wales. For every three children born, one is aborted. If that is not abortion on demand, I need to know what is.

In the last 10 years in England and Wales, out of almost 2 million abortions, just four were recorded as being for the purpose of saving the mother’s life. The conditions in the Abortion Act are rightly there to protect young children, but have they done that? No, they have not. We have had approximately 50 abortions in Northern Ireland, so women can have an abortion in Northern Ireland if the conditions are met—two GPs have to agree that an abortion would protect the welfare, health and safety of an expectant mother. We have a system that works, and it is better than the legislation in the United Kingdom. It is better than the Republic of Ireland’s system, too. The Democratic Unionist party believes that both lives matter—the mother’s life and the child’s life—and, as my right hon. Friend the Member for East Antrim (Sammy Wilson) said, 100,000 people are alive today because of that.

The hon. Member for Pontypridd (Owen Smith) spoke about opinion polls, and there was the publication at the weekend of a national opinion poll that asked voters in Northern Ireland whether they supported abortion when a woman simply does not want the child. Only 34% said yes and 60% said no. There is no demand among the general public for abortion on demand, which Members would push through if they had the opportunity.

I am called to be a legislator, and I have to weigh up the number of the cases I mentioned against the number of those that abuse legislation as a means of birth control. I believe it is to the good of our nation to protect our babies in their mother’s womb and to support that woman. I believe it is wrong to ask doctors to take the life of a child within the womb. I believe that there is another way and we must advocate for that. I believe that the woman and her body matter, but so does the life of the child. Let us remember the child. People may disregard it, but let us not do so. I am not disregarding it and my party will not disregard it. Do not ask this place to impose on Northern Ireland a law that does not reflect the will of its elected representatives and, in my opinion, the overwhelming view of the people of every side of the political divide. Life is precious; both lives matter.