Disabled People and Economic Growth

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Thursday 22nd February 2018 Commons Chamber

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

It is always a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Chippenham (Michelle Donelan), and I thank her for her contribution. I congratulate the hon. Member for East Kilbride, Strathaven and Lesmahagow (Dr Cameron)—I hope that I pronounced her constituency correctly. [Interruption.] Ah, almost right. I will have to practise it. She is very clearly a champion for those with disabilities, and I am very pleased to be part of the all-party group for disability, which she chairs. Yesterday, I was able to participate in some of those things that she mentioned and give a Northern Ireland perspective on them. I will probably also give a Northern Ireland perspective today on where we are with this matter.

It is also nice to see the Minister in her place. We had an expression of her interest in this subject yesterday when we had the opportunity to take part in the disability confident campaign that the hon. Lady and the Minister organised. It was good to be able to support what the Minister was doing, but it also gave me the opportunity to increase my knowledge of the subject. The one thing about being an MP—in fact, the one thing about being any person—is that we can learn every day if we want to. Of course I want to extend my knowledge, and yesterday gave me a chance to do just that. I was also able to interact with those who were there and explain to them what we were doing. For example, we are doing a number of things in my constituency in relation to this matter—I mean that private business is doing a number of things. There are also policies and strategies in place. I wish the shadow Minister, the hon. Member for Battersea (Marsha De Cordova), well and I look forward to her contribution.

It is a privilege to stand in this Chamber to represent and speak out for the many disabled people in our communities. We get our knowledge of this subject from our constituents, from our advice centres and from our everyday interaction in our communities. The briefing that the House of Commons Library so helpfully supplied said:

“Over 7 million people of working age (16-64) in the UK are disabled or have a health condition, and 3.5 million of these are in work.”

That is good news. It also stated that

“350,000 are unemployed (meaning that they are not in work but are actively looking for work)”.

I hope that this debate will provide us with the opportunity to see how we can achieve our goal. The briefing goes on to say that

“3.3 million are economically inactive (meaning they are not in work and are not looking for work).”

The fact is that some disabled people cannot work. That is a fact of life and must be accepted as such. However, for those who want to work, we should do our best to make that happen.

The employment rate of people who are disabled is 49.2%; the employment rate for people without disabilities is 80.6%. The employment rate for people with disabilities was 1.3 percentage points higher in April and June 2017 than in the same period of 2016. Over that same period, the number of people with disabilities in employment rose by 104,000. Clearly, a strategy is in place to try to address the issue, because more people with disabilities are in employment now than a year ago, so that must be good news.

Between July 2016 and June 2017, the employment rate—at 58.5%—was highest for people who were disabled in the south-west, and lowest in Northern Ireland at 36.7%. It is not often said, but the Library provides excellent information for us when we are preparing for these debates, which gives us a chance to do things well. I read the Disability Action report, “Hard at Work”, which was very interesting reading. As opposed to just citing the fact that there are only 33% of disabled people in work in Northern Ireland, it asks the question why, and I am going to ask that question in the Chamber today. I am very conscious that the Minister has no responsibility for Northern Ireland—I understand that—but to give some depth to this debate with facts and details, I want to add in the Northern Ireland perspective. Some things that have been done in Northern Ireland—or have not been done—can be put into practice on the mainland.

The overall employment rate in Northern Ireland is 5 percentage points lower than in Great Britain. For some groups, the gap is much wider—15 percentage points lower for disabled people in Northern Ireland compared with Great Britain. Thirty-three per cent of disabled people are in employment, which is less than half the rate of non-disabled people, and 50% of disabled applicants did not feel comfortable about disclosing their disability—I want to stress that point to the Minister because I am sure that it also applies to the UK mainland. This is something that we must address. I ask Members to forgive me for saying this, but we are all aware of the story that was in the press yesterday—I know that it is slightly different from what we are discussing today—about people having to disclose when they go for a job whether they are pregnant or intending to have a child. I think that it is wrong to ask that of anyone going for a job. The same thing applies to those with a disability. If a person does not say that they are disabled, they have a better chance of getting the job. If they say that they are disabled, will a wee box be ticked saying that they are not the right person for the job? Once in employment, disabled employees often do not feel confident about being open about their disability. Even when there is a problem in their job, they tend to keep it to themselves.

Research findings vary, estimating that between 20% and 50% of people with a disability feel that they face discrimination in employment, and less than half the respondents to one survey had asked for “reasonable adjustments”. Again, I say to the Minister that if people feel discriminated against, or if they are afraid to ask for reasonable adjustments, perhaps there is a big role for businesses to carry out. The reasons given for not asking for reasonable adjustments were

“not wanting to draw attention to their disability”

or because “it would be embarrassing” to do so. Of those who did ask, nearly a third said that they received little or no help following their requests. Perhaps that underlines the other issue. When people ask for something, they are not even sure whether they will get it, or whether it will be done. Again, that is something that we need to look at. Perhaps sometimes we have to enforce such things through legislation and through Government intervention. It is small wonder that many people with so much to offer feel like they are a burden and unwanted in the workplace. Those concerns have been referred to by other Members today.

Concerns among employers in relation to employing disabled people included perceived risks to productivity; financial and other implications of making workplace adjustments; and confusion or negative perceptions around legislation. Perhaps people need to be more aware of what the legislation means and what it means for business as well. Despite employers’ concerns about perceived financial implications, a survey of more than 1,000 employers found that the majority provided adjustments. Let us be clear about this: the majority of businesses try to do the right thing. I am talking here about flexible working patterns and hours with no associated cost increase. I would like to ask the Minister a question and perhaps she can respond when she has the opportunity to do so. Can she tell me whether financial incentives are available for businesses to make those changes? I think that, sometimes, the cost factor does concern some businesses. If there is some help for them to make those adjustments, it would be helpful.

A recent survey highlighted the fact that 40% of respondents said that the option of modified hours—such as flexible or part-time working—would be an important factor in enabling them to enter and to stay in work. Over the years, I have had the opportunity to look at what happens with the disability living allowance, which has now moved to the personal independence payment. Even if people are on DLA, they need therapeutic work. We must understand that, sometimes, people are not fully able to carry out their duties because of their disablement, but, therapeutically, it is good for them to have some work for a certain period of time. Perhaps the Minister could give us her thoughts on that in her response this afternoon.

Perhaps most worrying for this place is that we must get our own house in order. Let me just illustrate the problem by way of an example from the civil service, but I will not name the person involved. Disabled people in the public sector still report being passed over for development and promotion opportunities, and that their performance is unfairly assessed. This suggests that talent is being wasted and a culture of discontent is being fostered. If we have not got our own house in order in government—at all levels, wherever it may be: at this level, at regional level, at council level, and so on—that is the first step that we must address in this place.

I always say, with regard to expecting people with illnesses to be in work, that it is up to the Government to set the example. I often use the example, as I do now, of a young constituent of mine who worked in the civil service. She had her DDA form filled in, so her employer—the civil service—was aware that she had ulcerative colitis. She applied for a transfer to a Department closer to home to avoid the almost two-hour long rush-hour jaunt that she had to go through every day. She was not accommodated. She went to occupational health service meetings and was told numerous times that, yes, she should be off sick and should not return to work until the flare-up had settled down. She was then medically retired from work, as her employer felt she was unfit to work. She applied for benefits and was told that she was not entitled to ESA or DLA and that she should seek employment. This is the Catch-22 or chicken-and-egg situation—which comes first? The civil service expected someone to hire her, according to the ESA decision, just not itself.

Let us look at the process that she went through. At the age of 28, she was classified by the civil service as not fit to work but made to feel like a scrounger for feeling that if the civil service, with its hundreds of offices and roles and positions, could not facilitate her illness, then she would have no chance in the private sector. Thankfully, we were able to help with getting her ESA and DLA. Both claims went to appeals and reviews, but they were ultimately won. Every time she applied, we had to go through the same ritual because nobody believed that this girl could not work, despite the fact that she had been paid off because she was medically unfit. That makes absolutely no sense. We must lead by example. We must put into place initiatives that help disabled people to be confident in their abilities instead of feeling that only their disabilities are important. It is hard to expect small businesses to understand that a disability does not mean an inability to be a vital player in a team when we—I use the royal we, in terms of the civil service—are not able to do that, despite putting in place so-called protocols and schemes to prevent that from happening. This House is one place where I most certainly advocate that we get our house in order and do so quickly.

I look to my constituency and see the potential in our young people in Longstone School, which is one of the behavioural units where young people with disabilities as well as those with educational challenges are trained to work in what is sometimes, for them, a big, bad world. However, it is a world of opportunity, with so much more to offer, and we should be trying to move them towards it. Should we consider apprenticeships with financial support for those who have learning disabilities? I look to the Minister again. I have been looking to her for lots of answers; we are all doing so, because we respect her greatly. Would that help employers to think of employing disabled people as less of a gamble and to give them an opportunity? I am certain that many such apprenticeships would turn into employment.

What can we do to help those who want to work and have skills to offer, yet feel there is no place for them in the modern workplace? To me, that is what this debate is about. It is about giving them hope, vision and opportunity. If we can do that, we are moving in the right direction. I do not have the answers. My wife thinks that I have lots of answers, but I do not have answers to everything in the world. However, I try to seek out the answers, and that is the great advantage of this debate. I ask the Minister and her Department to consider this issue really seriously—I know that she will—and to come back to the House with more than a simple pledge to get disabled people into work. We need a plan to make this happen, starting with our own civil service.

I again commend the hon. Member for East Kilbride, Strathaven and Lesmahagow for her compassion and for her interest in disability. I also commend all the other Members who have come along here on a Thursday afternoon—the graveyard shift—to participate in a really important debate.

--- Later in debate ---

[Drew Hendry]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his intervention. It is important to take into account the size and scale of the challenges people face, to make sure we are able to take full advantage.

As my hon. Friend the Member for East Kilbride, Strathaven and Lesmahagow said, the UK already has a skills shortage, and the Brexit exodus of skilled labour means that the opportunity of training and apprenticeships must be embraced. As we have heard, the Government at the moment are not going far enough. Specialist advice services on self-employment are required, and we need to avoid stereotypes in these debates and the action that follows.

The additional challenges for disabled people also come down to hard cash and the extra costs that they have to cope with. New research from Scope shows that on average, disabled people have to find an additional £750 per month related to their condition, on top of any social security payments designed to meet those costs. The financial penalty locks disabled people out of being able to make a positive contribution to the economy. They need practical help, and the Government can help now. For example, the Government can help with motability, an issue that my hon. Friend is keen to bring up. Many people have seen their ability to move around or take part in employment and the economy hampered by motability issues.

It also comes down to the issue of PIP assessments. I was interested to hear from the hon. Member for Hitchin and Harpenden (Bim Afolami) and agree with him that more money should be spent on disability payments. There should be more social security to support disabled people, particularly given their disadvantage. The recent Work and Pensions Committee report on claimant experiences of PIP and ESA assessments presented clear evidence that the assessments are failing a substantial minority of claimants, with claimant stories highlighting clear errors made in assessments, crucial information being omitted and assessors lacking knowledge and expertise. It is not just about putting more money into the system; it is about making the system work for disabled people, which too often it does not at the moment.

[Jim Shannon]

Friday a week ago, I had the chance to meet Capita officials in Northern Ireland. I suggest to the hon. Gentleman and other Members that if it is possible to have such a meeting, it might be helpful. We were able to get a hotline to the people who can make the changes and to ensure that the people doing the assessments are up to speed, as he said. Capita needs to change some of the things it is doing. We are going to have a change in Northern Ireland, and Capita has committed to that. I suggest that others do the same in their own regions.

[Drew Hendry]

That is an important comment. I am sure that the hon. Gentleman, having listened to me speak on universal credit, PIP and ESA on many occasions, can be reassured that I have indeed made that visit and gone through that process, and I know what is involved. I think his substantive point is that it is a good thing to do. It does not iron out the difficulties that people have had over years and continue to have, but it can help, and wherever it can help, we must do that.

Between April 2016 and March 2017, the Scope helpline saw a 542% rise in calls related to PIP payments, and 65% of claimants who challenge a PIP decision at tribunal are successful. There is much more that the Government can do to help.

I want to finish with some criticisms, but given that I know the Minister will be listening carefully and looking for ways to take action, I will also talk about how we are doing things back in our own constituencies, as the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) said, and how we are doing things differently in Scotland. I hope that the Minister will listen carefully and take the opportunity to learn or think about how things might be done differently.

We have seen the impact that the UK Government’s system has had on disabled people in Scotland. In October this year, the Scottish Government found that between 7,000 and 10,000 disabled people per year are being affected by the removal of the work-related activity component of employment and support allowance. That is completely appalling and simply unacceptable. They also found that 40,000 disabled people claiming ESA have been affected by the bedroom tax. ESA is supposed to support disabled people into employment. The Government have said that the £30-a-week cut was to remove incentives to be out of work. That is an outrageous thing to do. It is pushing people into poverty and into crisis.

The Government’s PIP assessment process is failing disabled people. According to the DWP figures from December 2017, one in five claimants who had gone through mandatory reconsideration for PIP had their reward changed, meaning that 20% of those initial decisions were judged as wrong. I hope that the Minister will consider some of the actions that have been taken in Scotland, with the very limited powers that have been transferred to Scotland.

Disabled people should have equal access to employment opportunities in Scotland, and the Scottish National party Government are committed to reducing the employment gap by at least half. Disabled people’s skills, hard work and commitment are valuable to any employer, and practical and financial support must be available to businesses. It makes sense to recruit from the widest pool of talent possible.

Disabled people account for 20% of Scotland’s population, and at the moment they make up just 11% of the private sector workforce and 11.7% of the public sector workforce. The Scottish Government will work with both sectors to look at target setting and how to redress the imbalance. In April 2017, the Scottish Government introduced employability programmes delivered by a new service, Work First Scotland, including employment support for up to 3,300 disabled people. In July last year, a campaign was launched to boost awareness among businesses of the benefits of employing people with disabilities, specifically targeting small and medium-sized enterprises.

From April 2018, a new devolved programme will take a voluntary and person-led approach to ensure that disabled people are offered support that is appropriate and built on guaranteed service expectations from providers. Disabled people engaging with the programme will receive high-quality pre-employment support that identifies and develops their strengths and assets, while focusing on sustainable employment outcomes. Only today, the Scottish Government announced that people will no longer see a reduction in their benefit payments during the appeal process. In the Minister’s response, she might say whether the UK Government will consider taking that action, too.

I think the message from both sides of the Chamber today has been crystal clear: let us do all that can be done to realise and release the potential of disabled people for economic growth.