Transport (CSR)

Jim Fitzpatrick Excerpts

Thursday 25th November 2010 Westminster Hall

[Iain Stewart]

I am afraid I disagree with the hon. Gentleman. There will be competition between high-speed rail and short-haul aviation, and I would like the United Kingdom to be part of a Europe-wide high-speed network, so that it is feasible to travel by rail from Birmingham to Paris or Frankfurt. However, it is an inescapable fact that the demands on medium and long-haul air travel will increase and, until an engineer comes up with a solution, we cannot yet take trains across the Atlantic or other expanses of water.

As part of the Transport Committee’s inquiry, we visited Birmingham airport a few weeks ago. The people who work there are excited about the High Speed 2 line, because the journey time from the London area to Birmingham airport will be less than 40 minutes. That opens up the prospect of having longer-haul flights from Birmingham and relieving the capacity pressures on south-east England airports. That might not be the only answer, but it is the sort of long-term consideration that transport planning should include.

[Jim Fitzpatrick (Poplar and Limehouse) (Lab)]

Can I take it from the hon. Gentleman’s remarks that he accepts the principle that the UK needs an international hub airport, as well as airports that function for shorter haul, and that he believes Heathrow is very important to the UK economy?

[Iain Stewart]

The United Kingdom certainly needs a hub airport in the broadest sense. I will not go into the relative merits of all the options in this short debate, but if my right hon. Friend the Minister wishes to promote me to the Government, I would be happy to make such decisions. At the moment, I am afraid such decisions are above my pay grade and that of the hon. Gentleman.

We need to think strategically about what we want the long-term aviation policy of the United Kingdom to be. That might involve Heathrow—although from all the evidence I have seen, I suspect not—or a broader south-east hub and Birmingham, Manchester or other airports in the United Kingdom. The point is that such a long-term view should be considered in conjunction with other strategic projects, such as high-speed rail.

If I may anticipate the comments that I believe my hon. Friend the Member for Pudsey (Stuart Andrew) will be sharing with us in a short time, we should consider specific transport projects in different locales around the country. There are exciting projects in the Leeds area involving trolley buses and other local schemes, which should also be factored into this country’s long-term planning. As a small aside, I shall mention that it is my hon. Friend’s birthday today. As a birthday present, perhaps the Minister can announce something helpful on the Leeds trolley bus scheme. However, I shall not press that matter any further.

In this country, we are poor at long-term transport planning. Part of the problem is that the tenure of Secretaries of State in the Department for Transport has been very short. Let us consider the average time for which Secretaries of State have served in the past. In the 18 years of Conservative Governments between 1979-1997, there were 12 Secretaries of State for Transport. Under the previous Labour Governments, there were seven Secretaries of State in 13 years—they did not last much longer on average. Transport needs to be pushed up the priority list in government. Again, it is way above my pay grade to determine ministerial appointments and tenure, but I hope that an individual is given the necessary time in post and the flexibility to develop a long-term view.

Those are the main points I wish to put on the record. I have the great pleasure of representing the Transport Committee at a European conference on transport and infrastructure this weekend. I am not a great fan of most things European, but Europe has had a comprehensive, strategic transport plan since 1990. I would like us to replicate that domestically in the United Kingdom. The settlement that my right hon. Friend and her colleagues have secured is, as I have said, very welcome in the context in which we operate. I hope that it will be a sound basis on which we can build a truly long-term national strategic transport plan.

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[Martin Horwood (Cheltenham) (LD)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Gray. I, too, commend the hon. Member for Liverpool, Riverside (Mrs Ellman) for leading this debate.

The overall context of this debate is the comprehensive spending review and the need to tackle the country’s deficit. The overspend inherited from the previous Government is so great that one could cut the entire Department for Transport budget—every penny of Government money spent on buses, trains, roads, tube lines and so on—10 times over and still be overspending. That is the scale of the task faced by the Government in trying to rebalance the economy.

In that context, for the Department to have achieved a cut of only 15% over four years is to be genuinely celebrated. It is well below the average for Government Departments, and is reflective, I hope, of a good and robust case put to the Treasury. It certainly reflects the importance of transport to this Government, which is very much to be welcomed. From a Liberal Democrat perspective, the importance of transport is that it will help to improve the economy again, and it will also help us to achieve the boldly stated aim of being the greenest Government ever. Those two in combination should lead to a model of more sustainable prosperity, which is very much to be desired.

Some of the expectations of the comprehensive spending review have genuinely been confounded. We spoke a little about the bus service operating grant. Any cut in it is to be regretted, and I am sure that Ministers regret it as much as I do, but it was widely discussed as potentially 50%. A cut of only 20% is relatively benign, and I believe that bus service operators have assured Ministers, including the Under-Secretary of State for Transport, my hon. Friend the Member for Lewes (Norman Baker), that it can be absorbed, hopefully without increases in fares. I shall return to the bus service operating grant later.

Comment in the transport press has been favourable. Local Transport Today, a newspaper that I am learning to read avidly, commented in an editorial:

“Philip Hammond will be a happy man this week...The DfT’s 15% budget reduction over the next four years is lower than the 19% Government average and the Department’s reduction in capital funding (11%) is far better than the 29% average.”

That is all to the good. As part of the package, there are new Government funding lines that are particularly to be welcomed. The local sustainable transport fund of £560 million over four years reflects the importance of localism to this Government, and has an explicit link to the reduction of CO₂ emissions, which is very welcome. I hope that grants made under that scheme are for measures to increase the importance of cycling and walking at a local level, as well as for more traditional travel projects.

As the Secretary of State confirmed in an answer to me earlier today, there is also the use of the new methodology for calculating the future cost of carbon. One of the most disastrous calculations by the previous Government was their use of an adulterated version of what was recommended by the Stern review to calculate the future cost of carbon emissions, which is, in effect, the value of future lives lost by climate change. They so heavily discounted that rate that projects such as the third runway at Heathrow looked economic when the cost of climate change was taken into account. It took only a change in the calculation for the idea of a third runway to look as bad as it does, and for the project to be rightly stopped. I am pleased that the new methodology will be adopted in calculations relating to all future projects.

[Jim Fitzpatrick]

Notwithstanding how carbon is calculated—I do not for a second accept that the methodology was in any way, shape or form flawed—does the hon. Gentleman actually believe that if Heathrow ceases to be a hub, aviation will decrease? Does he not accept that logically Schiphol, Charles de Gaulle or Frankfurt would become the European hub, which would probably be welcomed by Brussels, and that the UK economy would then be in disbenefit?

[Martin Horwood]

I am rather surprised that the hon. Gentleman thinks that the methodology was not flawed. It was changed in March, and the now leader of the Labour party, the former Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change, rightly presided over that change, which this Government, who took office shortly afterwards, took up. I think that the hon. Gentleman needs to be careful about his calculations.

As far as the other airports are concerned, it is very important that aviation is constrained across the European Union, and indeed around the world, as part of our assault on the threat of climate change. Unless the hon. Gentleman is challenging the methodology used by Sir Nicholas Stern—now Lord Stern—in his review, which was commissioned by the previous leader of the Labour party and Prime Minister, he will have to explain what methodology he would use to reflect the true economic cost of the threat of climate change. The methodology has been widely accepted in business and by investors and is now part of business calculations, and the use by the previous Government—until they changed their mind at the very last minute—of an incorrect and adulterated version of the cost of carbon, deviated from good business practice, apart from anything else.

On assessing project impact, I recommend that Ministers look carefully at the new approach to appraisal—NATA—assessment framework, and ensure that environmental and quality-of-life benefits are properly reflected. My noble Friend Lord Bradshaw in another place has made some very valuable and typically learned critiques of NATA, and I commend them to Ministers.

On railways, Ministers can be very happy indeed. The overall balance of investment in the Department will shift from 49 to 60% for rail by 2014-15, and that is exactly the right direction of travel. I am delighted that major projects such as Crossrail, Thameslink, the tube upgrades and, of course, High Speed 2 are all secure and that High Speed 2 in particular will, assuming that it is extended to Scotland, in the very long term deliver substantial reductions in aviation within the UK. I take the points made by other hon. Members on this earlier, but High Speed 2 is a very important contribution to rebalancing and making more environmentally friendly our whole approach to transport; that has been the experience of high-speed rail wherever it has been introduced around the world in competition with aviation.

Today, significant investment in new rolling stock was announced, with 600 new carriages for Crossrail and 1,200 for Thameslink, which in turn will free up hundreds of electric carriages for redeployment on newly electrified routes elsewhere and help to make the case for those new routes economic, which is very important. That, in turn, will free up diesel rolling stock for other routes, and help to support their economics. We have had additional announcements on developments at Reading, Birmingham New Street and other stations, on the east coast and midland main lines, and in Manchester and south Wales, and the confirmation, which is very important to colleagues in Scotland, that the inter-city express programme has been narrowed to two options, both of which include absolutely through services, and do not therefore raise the prospect of parts of Scotland being cut off by the need to change trains.

I would also welcome the schemes previously announced by the Department, which are reflected in the settlement for light rail, trams and ultra-light rail schemes. Those mentioned are Greater Manchester Metrolink, the Blackpool and Fleetwood tramway upgrade and the Tyne and Wear metro upgrade, and there are plenty of others that we could consider. The hon. Member for Pudsey (Stuart Andrew) made a very powerful case for Leeds, and the Leeds new generation transport scheme is in the development pool, which means that it has a fair chance of success. I wish him well in putting forward a strong case for the Leeds light rail system.

There are other schemes even further into the future, and I must mention the ultra-light rail system being fought for in Gloucestershire. We recognise that it is a long way off in terms of public funding, but important steps can be taken to support it. Most obviously, since it is intended that the system will reuse railway lines that were closed down by Dr Beeching, Ministers could look, perhaps with the Department for Communities and Local Government, at the new planning framework to ensure that nothing is done that prejudices such development. That would be an important way to support the future development of ultra-light rail.

On roads, I welcome many of the announcements, including the confirmation that support for electric car-charging infrastructure will go ahead. With the possibility of “hybrid hybrid vehicles”—those that run on electric batteries until the batteries run out and then revert to more conventional hybrid vehicle technology—we might be within sight of escaping the chicken and egg situation, in which the car-charging points cannot be rolled out until the electric vehicles are there to produce the demand for them, but the demand for the electric vehicles cannot be there until there are charging points. There is now the prospect of beginning to move forward in the electric car market, and the Government’s clear support for that is very important.

I am pleased that the main focus of the Department’s spending is shifting more towards maintenance and away from new roads, but the Liberal Democrats might have gone further and looked rather more critically at many of the other new road projects. I was very interested in what the hon. Member for Worsley and Eccles South (Barbara Keeley) said about the M60 project. It certainly sounds as though the Highways Agency’s consultation process has left a very great deal to be desired in that case, and could be critically looked at again. I also suggest that Ministers cast a particularly critical eye over the suggested upgrade of the junctions between the M4 and the M5 in my part of the world. I travelled the M4 and the M5 recently by car, and found no particular problems at the junctions or with the interaction between the two motorways, so I am not sure what the justification for the project is. I urge Ministers to keep all new motorway projects under very close review.

Not all road projects are bad, however. The Mersey gateway bridge project, which is in the supported pool and is therefore certainly being given a fair wind by the Government, could substantially reduce carbon emissions by increasing walking and cycling and considerably shortening car journeys in Merseyside. It would obviously also bring economic benefits. One last comment on roads is that with snow and ice possibly being a topical issue even before the end of the week, it is very welcome that the Local Government Association reports substantial extra investment in the provision of grit by local authorities, but I urge Ministers to keep a weather eye on that because we have seen some disasters in the past, when grit has run out. Grit suppliers particularly need to be encouraged to maintain supplies to local government as a high priority.

I am concerned about buses. I agree with the hon. Member for Liverpool, Riverside, who emphasised the importance of the number of bus users in the country. Some 5 billion to 6 billion bus journeys are undertaken a year. The bus sector faces a potential triple whammy from the CSR. There is an admittedly modest reduction in the bus service operator grant, but the maintenance of the concessionary fares scheme is an important political commitment, which I support in principle. In fact, I should like it to be extended to 16 to 18-year-olds, in line with the policy of the UK Youth Parliament. That scheme is imposed on local authorities in a way that is inflexible for them and they have no way to control its costs. Its incorporation into the formula grant in future will lead local authorities to make some difficult choices about how to spend money locally. Since local authorities also subsidise many bus routes, those three things could combine and put a lot of local bus services at risk. That would damage our commitment to public transport and greener transport and would put rural bus services in particular at risk, which would not be welcome. Will Ministers meet their colleagues from the Department for Communities and Local Government and local council leaders from the Local Government Association, urgently to discuss the likely impact of the CSR on the bus sector?

Some responses could be made to the threat to the bus sector that do not involve spending large amounts of public money. It is instructive that bus journeys in London are on an upward trend, whereas bus journeys in the rest of the country are on a downward trend. Those of us outside London might mention the probably well deserved but quite generous subsidy that public transport in London gets relative to the rest of the country. But we could also mention the Oyster card and the use of smart technology, which makes it easier for people to use buses in London and the enormously better marketing and provision of information about routes in London at every bus stop and online. Certainly, that is in sharp contrast to the situation in Gloucestershire and many other parts of the country, which makes buses virtually incomprehensible and difficult for consumers to use reliably.

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[Jim Fitzpatrick (Poplar and Limehouse) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to be here under your chairmanship, Mr Gray. This is the first time that I have spoken from the Opposition side of this Chamber. I would naturally rather be where the Minister is and I certainly was there for a couple of years. It reminds me of the question asked by many people about what it is like being in opposition after 13 years. As a former Minister responsible for road safety, I use a roads analogy. I tell people that it is like when they go to Europe for the first time and drive on the right-hand side of the road. It is strange, but I get it; I know what I am supposed to be doing. However, every junction and every occasion have to be approached with additional care.

Like other hon. Members, I congratulate the Chairman of the Select Committee on Transport, my hon. Friend the Member for Liverpool, Riverside (Mrs Ellman), on securing the debate, on the way in which she introduced it and on the way in which she leads her Committee. She is very highly regarded in the House, as all new Members will quickly come to realise, if they have not already.

Conservative Members may not be surprised to hear that I do not accept their rosy view of the impact of the comprehensive spending review on transport. The CSR settlement will mean a scaling back of Labour’s plans for transport infrastructure and a significant increase in the burden that falls on passengers through increased fares. I shall try to comment on hon. Members’ contributions later in my remarks.

The Department’s budget has suffered a 15% cut in real terms. That includes not only savings of 21% from the resource budget but, more worryingly, an 11% reduction in capital spending. The implications of that will be felt not just by the travelling public. Because investment in infrastructure projects is vital to growth, it will also affect the recovery, manufacturing and jobs.

[Mrs Villiers]

rose—

[Jim Fitzpatrick]

I am delighted to give way to the Minister.

[Mrs Villiers]

The Budget produced by the Government of whom the hon. Gentleman was a member put in place a predicted 50% reduction in capital spending. In the light of that, is it not the case that an 11% cut for transport is really not a bad result in comparison with what other Departments are subject to?

[Jim Fitzpatrick]

I do not for a second, in any way, shape or form, do anything other than congratulate the Ministers on fighting their corner for transport, but when I explain later why I am disappointed with the outcome, the details of the position will become clearer.

The Secretary of State has been over-spinning his settlement as a great success when it is nothing of the kind. Even the Institute for Fiscal Studies listed the Department for Transport as a “loser” in the CSR. Combined with the huge reductions in funding for local government, the impact will be felt by passengers throughout the country.

The Government are trying to get away with these myths: that Labour was planning a much bigger cut in capital spending and that the present Government are proceeding with even more spending on capital projects than was planned by Labour. Both claims are not true. First, the Government have set out spending plans to 2015, for the whole five-year Parliament. They are therefore never comparing like with like. That is classic smoke and mirrors, and I cannot believe that any Government would get up to such tricks.

Secondly, the Government insist on changing the point that they use as their baseline to suit their case. The reality is that even before the CSR, the Government had made £683 million-worth of spending cuts, including £309 million from local transport grants—made up of £61 million from major local authority schemes, £151 million from integrated transport block grant, £8 million from the urban congestion fund, £17 million from the road safety capital grant and £20 million from the road safety revenue grant—£108 million from Transport for London, £100 million from Network Rail, resulting in the scrapping of the better rail stations programme to upgrade 10 key national interchange stations judged the worst in the country, £54 million by deferring schemes and £112 million in internal cuts from the DFT, including staffing.

[Mrs Villiers]

The hon. Gentleman is identifying certain cuts that he alleges are being made, which clearly he is concerned about. If he will not accept reductions in certain transport programmes, where does he expect the reductions to come in order to tackle the deficit that the Government he was a member of left to us?

[Jim Fitzpatrick]

We do not accept for a second, as was clearly outlined by my right hon. Friend the shadow Chancellor in a speech only last month, that it was a Labour deficit. The deficit was created by an international banking crisis that started in the US. Most other countries copied the UK Government’s solution in restabilising their financial institutions and trying to ensure that the economy was in a position to recover.

We accept that cuts have to be made. We do not demur from that in any way, shape or form. I shall come to that in a second.

[Stuart Andrew]

Does the hon. Gentleman also accept that the Government he was a member of did not put money aside in the good times so that when the bad times came we were in a better position to deal with that, as other countries such as Australia did?

[Jim Fitzpatrick]

No, I do not accept that position either. The year before the crisis hit, we were borrowing 2.4% of GDP, compared with the 3.4% that we inherited from the previous Conservative Chancellor, the right hon. and learned Member for Rushcliffe (Mr Clarke). Almost all our borrowing financed capital investment in schools, hospitals, road and rail.

The second myth about our record is that even if the public finances overall were under control, we were spending too much. We do not accept the allegation that what we were spending on schools and hospitals was excessive given the size of our economy. It was in line with other industrialised countries.

[Angie Bray]

rose—

[Jim Fitzpatrick]

I give way to the hon. Lady—the debate has certainly livened up, Mr Gray.

[Angie Bray]

The facts show that from 2002 onwards, Labour Chancellors were £30 billion short of what they were spending. Whatever they were spending money on, they were spending too much. From 2002, we were running a £30 billion deficit year on year. That is how we got to the level of debt that we now have, regardless of the breakdown of the banks.

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[Mr James Gray (in the Chair)]

Order. The debate has livened up, but it is also ranging fairly widely.

[Jim Fitzpatrick]

I will do my best to close that down and get back to my text, which I assure you, Mr Gray, is focused on the CSR.

To respond to the hon. Member for Ealing Central and Acton (Angie Bray), spending under Labour was not out of control. It was strongly supported by both coalition partners at the time. Indeed, there were criticisms from the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills and the Chancellor when they were in opposition that we were not spending enough. I therefore do not accept the hon. Lady’s argument.

To follow your admonition, Mr Gray, and return to my text, the shadow Chancellor has proposed additional taxation on the banking industry that would raise £7.5 billion and enable us almost to halve the Government’s cut of a third to infrastructure spending. As I have said to the Minister, there would have been cuts under Labour, but they would not have been so severe and the burden would not have been put on passengers through huge hikes in fares.

As an aside, the UK Chamber of Shipping president, Mr Jan Kopernicki, was recently quoted as saying that not bringing forward the new Type 26 frigates from 2020 to assist in dealing with piracy would cost the UK economy and endanger British and other shipping. I ask the Minister to pass that message back to the Treasury and the Ministry of Defence.

In government, Labour delivered major improvements to our rail network, resulting in greater reliability, faster journey times and more passengers than at any time since the 1940s. We set out an ambitious long-term vision for conventional rail alongside our ambitious high-speed rail plans. Our plans included new capacity, better infrastructure and a strategic freight network. We had no plans to make passengers pay more for less, because if people see fares increasing when plans for new capacity and infrastructure are being cut, fewer people travel by rail and there is increased congestion on our roads.

I welcome the fact that the Government have changed their position and now support the Labour Government’s proposed route for High Speed 2. That was more of a Y-turn than a U-turn. There are clearly splits in the Cabinet over this issue and even, we read, threats of resignation. I assure the Minister that the Opposition understand the economic importance of the project. It will bring the west midlands within about half an hour of London and deliver journey times of 75 minutes or less from Leeds, Sheffield and Manchester to the capital. Connections to existing tracks will enable direct high-speed train services to Glasgow, Edinburgh, Newcastle and Liverpool.

We also welcome the Secretary of State’s confirmation this morning that some of Labour’s plans for additional investment in rail infrastructure will go ahead, including electrification projects, new carriages and station improvements. We do not welcome the delays and reductions in vital projects such as Crossrail, which was mentioned by the hon. Member for Ealing Central and Acton. Crossrail will make journeys across London faster, allow direct access from Heathrow to the City, enable 200 million passenger journeys a year, add 30,000 high-value jobs to London in the first 10 years of its operation and add an estimated £20 billion to the UK’s GDP.

[Mrs Villiers]

I had hoped that the shadow Minister would recognise that it is a great result that we have been able to save Crossrail despite the crisis in the public finances. He should also acknowledge that the lengthening of the delivery time for the central section was the result of an engineering-led review on how to deliver the project in the most cost-effective way for the taxpayer.

[Jim Fitzpatrick]

I do not want to be churlish and I fully welcome the commitment to Crossrail. This project has been on the stocks since about 1880. The hon. Member for Ealing Central and Acton said that it had been decades, but it has actually been planned in one shape or form for more than a century. I hope that the Minister will be generous enough to congratulate the previous Prime Minister, who ultimately grasped the nettle and said that the project must go ahead, in conjunction with the Mayor of London, the City and the CBI. I would be grateful if she updated us on the time frame for the completion of the branches of Crossrail to Shenfield, Maidenhead and Abbey Wood. I am not sure whether it is on track to meet the time scale mentioned by the Secretary of State this morning.

We oppose the Government’s decisions on fares. They have made two decisions that we believe will drive people off the railways and back on to the roads, increase congestion and hit competitiveness and growth. First, they chose to reverse the decision that Labour took in government to require train companies to apply fare limits to all fares equally, rather than hike some significantly and offset that by making smaller reductions on others. This week, we have seen the result of that change, with commuters being stung by rises of well over 10% on some routes, just at a time when families are being squeezed by wage freezes, the coming VAT increase and cuts to tax credits and child benefit.

Secondly, the Government decided to make things even worse for rail passengers by allowing fares to rise by 3% above inflation. Since 2004, the cap on increases to regulated fares has been RPI plus 1. From 1999 to 2003, it was RPI minus 1, and from 1995 to 1998, it was equal to RPI. The Secretary of State keeps claiming that increases across the CSR period will be only 10%. By our calculations, RPI plus 3 delivers a cumulative increase of more than 30% on the inflation forecasts of the Government’s Office for Budget Responsibility. The Secretary of State’s constituents will see their annual season ticket from Weybridge rise from £2,272 to more than £3,000. As shadow Secretary of State for Transport, the Minister warned that such a rise would price people off the railways. Her Department has confirmed that it expects that passengers will opt for other forms of transport. That is a betrayal of passengers by the coalition, which said in its programme for government that it was

“committed to fair pricing for rail travel.”

It is an even bigger betrayal by the Liberal Democrats, who pledged a real-terms cut in rail fares in their manifesto.

Not only rail passengers but bus users have been hit by Government. The cut to the bus service operators grant, which has been mentioned by several hon. Members, will have a devastating effect on many local bus services, particularly in rural and remote areas, which will not survive without subsidy. The BSOG is a subsidy to bus operators that covers most of the cost of fuel duty. It helps operators to keep fares down and to continue running less profitable or unprofitable services. According to Department for Transport figures, without BSOG we would see a 6.5% increase in fares and a 6.7% fall in bus usage. The social and economic effects would be even greater. With more services becoming unprofitable, more would be taken off the road.

The Government are telling people to get on the bus to find work, but people have to be able to afford to do so. The impact of this cut will be felt especially by those who are out of work and looking for a job. Two thirds of jobseekers do not have a driving licence or access to a car. Research by the social exclusion unit discovered that 38% of jobseekers found that transport was a major obstacle to finding work. People should be getting on the bus to find a job, but there must be a bus there in the first place.

The impact of the CSR settlement on local transport spending will soon be felt by the public. Labour doubled investment in local transport between 1997 and 2010 because we understand how vital local transport schemes are to reducing congestion, to making city and town centres more accessible, and to the creation of local and regional economic growth and jobs. The £309 million a year cut to local transport grants will be followed by significant cuts throughout the spending review period of 28%.

The Secretary of State has cut the number of transport grant schemes from 26 to four under the guise of simplification. We support making the system simpler, saving councils time and money on bids to different funding streams, but he knows that the cut is being used to disguise the significant reduction in the funds available to local government.

Road schemes are being hit hard. We were clear that we would have had to make reductions in the road budget. The Government, however, have pushed back many schemes that we would have taken forward, and even the money allocated to fund the schemes that have been given a green light will require major cuts of, on average, 25%.

Finally, there is real concern at the impact of the cuts on road safety. Cuts to road safety grants to local authorities were part of the Department for Transport’s in-year savings announced in May—£17 million from the road safety capital grant and £20 million from the road safety revenue grant. Following the reform of transport grants to local government announced in the spending review, there is now no specific grant funding for road safety.

Local authorities, facing cuts to their budgets of a third, will be under pressure to cut the funds for road safety and for speed cameras. Only this week, research has shown that 70 more people will die and 700 more will be injured if speed cameras are removed. It is staggering that the Government have admitted, in answer to a parliamentary question this week, that they carried out no assessment of the impact on road accidents and deaths of the decision to cut road safety grants and to end funding for speed cameras.

We have not seen so far the publication of an updated road safety strategy—a parliamentary answer that I received this morning said that it would be published early in the next year. As my hon. Friend the Member for Liverpool, Riverside, the Chair of the Select Committee, remarked, we have seen a gradual and significant 20-year decline in the number of deaths and serious injuries on our roads. I hate to say it, but that trend is in jeopardy as a result of some of the decisions.

On aviation, the coalition is poised to add further increases to air passenger duty. Does the Minister realise that adding air passenger duty to the cost of a visa from, for example, China, means that the cost of visiting the UK will be £612?

[Mrs Villiers]

Does the hon. Gentleman appreciate that the increases to air passenger duty which have just been implemented were legislated for by his Government? They are his decisions. How can he criticise us for going ahead with them?

[Jim Fitzpatrick]

The increases that were being introduced—further increases are being considered—are not being introduced in the way that we planned.

My point is that, if we add the cost of APD to the cost of a visa from China to the UK, it comes to £612, compared with £212 to go to Paris, flying economy. Flying business class, it costs £952 to London, compared with £332 to Paris. Might that explain why France received 688,000 Chinese visitors in 2008, when the UK only managed 108,000?

Will the Minister take that message to the Prime Minister? His recent mission to China was important, and we fully supported it, but to ensure that it is the Chinese destination of choice the UK must be as attractive as possible. Those figures seem to undermine the recent visit and the message that the Prime Minister took to the Chinese Government that UK plc is open to business—the strong message is that the Chinese should come via Paris, because it is much cheaper.

I will not raise the issue of aviation capacity in the south-east again, other than to say that our only international hub losing out to Charles de Gaulle, Frankfurt or Schiphol will act as another disincentive for business people to come to London. Given that Dubai now has six runways and offers access to the Americas for people from India and further east, we need to ensure that the UK is as accessible as possible, to attract those people.

[Mrs Villiers]

Can the hon. Gentleman set out his party’s position on a third runway at Heathrow? Is Labour for it or against it?

[Jim Fitzpatrick]

The Minister is teasing me. She knows full well that we just lost a general election on a policy of an additional runway at Heathrow and that my new leader—who, as the hon. Member for Cheltenham (Martin Horwood) mentioned earlier, had a particular view when Secretary of State at the Department of Energy and Climate Change—has announced that we are reviewing all our transport policy. I do not accept, by the way, that the methodology was flawed, although I accept that it has been upgraded and improved—“flawed” suggests that there was some skulduggery somewhere, which I do not buy in any way, shape or form.

The last question on aviation hubs is whether the Minister is worried that Brussels might be happy for Heathrow to lose its international hub role in favour of other parts of Europe.

[Angie Bray]

On the issue of six runways in Dubai, does the hon. Gentleman accept that Heathrow has no chance on earth of having six runways because of its geography? The problem with setting up Heathrow as a hub that can permanently compete with other cities that have their airports where they can continue to expand them—to four, five or six runways—is that we can never do that. We are utterly constrained by the geography. The third runway was about as much as we could ever have got anyway, and then only by jamming it in. To continue to compete in that way, therefore, is just throwing good money after bad.

[Jim Fitzpatrick]

I hear the hon. Lady’s comments and, as I said to the Minister, the electorate have expressed a view—certainly in west London—on additional capacity at Heathrow. I understand that the Department will be instigating a review of south-east capacity running to 2015, which seems a long time scale, and that the aviation policy will be written in a few months’ time. With the greatest of respect to the hon. Lady and to some of her colleagues who are new members of the Transport Committee, a hub airport is a critical piece of infrastructure for any country. Heathrow is running at 98.5% capacity—we will not have a hub if it is not Heathrow.

A strong point of view is that we should not have a hub and that we should deter and discourage people from travelling by air. The problem is that the impact on the UK economy, as a result of what aviation brings to UK plc, will be harmful. That is my personal point of view, but colleagues may want to consider the views of the CBI, the London and UK chambers of commerce, London First and the business community about the impact and role of Heathrow and whether capacity is needed.

[Angie Bray]

Nothing can change the geography. No one can change the geography of the area—one cannot get six runways in there.

[Jim Fitzpatrick]

I apologise. The hon. Lady mentioned six runways, and she is absolutely right—the third runway was about it. I only mentioned six runways to demonstrate that other countries are investing heavily in aviation infrastructure. A 25% increase is expected in China and south-east Asia over the next 10 years. People will fly—they will fly to the Americas from India, China and Australia, but, if they use Dubai as the stopping point for that part of the world, it will become increasingly difficult to get them to come to northern Europe. If we get them to come to northern Europe, they will not come to Heathrow if it is not functioning as effectively as we all want it to—again, that is an impact on UK plc. However, on the six runways, the hon. Lady is absolutely right, forgive me—I mentioned them only because I had been to see Dubai’s Aviation Minister, and had seen the runways and how amazing that was.

My last point on aviation is that I agree with the concern expressed by my hon. Friend the Member for Liverpool, Riverside, the Chairman of the Select Committee, about the future of TRANSEC and the impact of the CSR on security at airports and ports. More information is needed. I hope that the Minister will be able to comment, but obviously I understand the sensitivity around security issues. Perhaps she can comment, however, on the loss of expertise from TRANSEC as a result of impending retirements—early retirements due to potential redundancies—and, indeed, of redundancies. TRANSEC is an important organisation, and none of us want to see it damaged. It plays too important a role in our national security.

I will refer briefly to some comments of colleagues and reinforce points to which the Minister might wish to respond. The hon. Member for Milton Keynes South (Iain Stewart) raised the issue of high-speed rail. He got close to being drawn into aviation policy by his hon. Friend the Member for Cheltenham, but managed to stay away from it. I am sure his time on the Transport Committee will allow him the opportunity to examine closely the whole aviation issue.

My hon. Friend the Member for Worsley and Eccles South (Barbara Keeley) asked a number of questions of importance to her constituents and about the value-for-money issue. I look forward to the Minister’s response, especially as my hon. Friend was saying that the Highways Agency described the scheme she was concerned about as cheap and cheerful and not managed as we expect our modern motorways to function—without overhead signs controlling flows and changes to bridges. I understand that the scheme was referred back to the Highways Agency, but it has now been decided to plug ahead. As my hon. Friend the Member for Worsley and Eccles South strongly said, it is regarded as a waste of money. Indeed, she offered it to the hon. Member for Thurrock (Jackie Doyle-Price). I am not sure whether that generosity of spirit is normal between opposing parties, but I see that the point was well taken.

Among other matters, the hon. Member for Cleethorpes (Martin Vickers) raised questions on the role of ports and shipping. I agree with him that that sector’s profile does not match its economic significance. As a former Minister with responsibility for shipping, I look forward to hearing more from him in the years ahead.

The hon. Member for Pudsey (Stuart Andrew) cast an envious eye at Manchester and Sheffield; he asked for only two stations at Leeds. As it is the hon. Gentleman’s birthday, I would be interested to see how that request tests the Minister’s generosity.

The hon. Member for Cheltenham said that business accepted the need for restrictions on aviation. As I said earlier, I am not sure that I agree, and I shall not go there again.

The hon. Member for Thurrock spoke about the junction between the M25 and the A13. I am fairly familiar with it, as I lived in Barking for 20 years before moving to Poplar, Limehouse and Tower Hamlets. I know, as the hon. Lady does, that the new ports being built will add to the volume of traffic. Improvements to the junction were being considered by the previous Government in conjunction with the industry and the local authorities, because it is clearly a choke point. Something needs to be done.

As an aside, I believe that there are some 23 crossings on the Thames to the west of Tower bridge and only three to the east. With the regeneration of docklands, at least half of London’s population will be living east of Tower bridge, and there will be much more development on our side of the capital in the years ahead. I look forward to the Mayor of London revisiting the question of an additional crossing, which might marginally help the hon. Member for Thurrock. When the Mayor—Boris Johnson or his successor—comes forward with a proposal, as I am sure he will, I hope that the Department for Transport will support and encourage it. It will obviously be a financial risk for London, not the Department, but DFT support will be critical in ensuring that the project moves forward positively.

The hon. Member for Ealing Central and Acton raised a hugely important question on London’s transport, as did several colleagues, saying that if London does not function efficiently the whole of UK plc will suffer. Although some cast an envious eye on London and the support that the capital city gets, if London does not function the whole country suffers. I know that all parties in London are supportive of the hon. Lady’s comments.

The comprehensive spending review settlement is far from the huge triumph being spun by Ministers. It will see investment in our transport infrastructure being reduced far faster and more brutally than would have been the case under Labour. Not only will passengers be paying more for less, but they will feel the real burden of the cuts. The reality is that the Government are investing in rail schemes that they inherited from the previous Government, but with delays. Although passengers will see the benefit, the cost will fall on commuters through hikes in fares.

The Government have covered up a massive cut in funding for local government, disguising it as a commitment to localism, local decision-making and simplification, but the reality is that they are leaving the pain of making the inevitable cuts to local authorities and letting them take the blame. The comprehensive spending review settlement for transport is bad news for passengers, particularly commuters, bad news for safety on our roads, bad news for those who rely on buses to get to work or to find work and, most of all, bad news for business, competitiveness, jobs and growth.

[The Minister of State, Department for Transport (Mrs Theresa Villiers)]

It is a pleasure, Mr Gray, to serve under your chairmanship. I am delighted that the Backbench Business Committee chose to put this debate on the agenda, and I pay tribute to all who have taken part, especially the Chairman of the Select Committee on Transport, the hon. Member for Liverpool, Riverside (Mrs Ellman), and I thank the hon. Lady for her cogent and thorough introduction to the important issues that we have been debating this afternoon.

On 20 October, my right hon. Friend the Chancellor set out the coalition Government’s four-year plan to tackle the most urgent issue facing Britain today—mending our public finances and putting them on a sustainable footing. Several Members, including my hon. Friend the Member for Pudsey (Stuart Andrew), said that the situation that the Government inherited from our predecessors has put us in an extremely difficult position. Left unchanged, the spending position that we inherited would have seen Britain paying out £70 billion a year by the end of this Parliament, which is more than we spend on educating our children and defending our country put together.

We heard from the hon. Member for Liverpool, Riverside that, as part of the CSR settlement, the Department for Transport will reduce overall spending by 15%. Savings of 21% will need to be made from resource budgets, and 11% from capital. There is no doubt that cuts on that scale mean that difficult choices will have to be made. We very much wish that we did not have to make them, but the reality is, as many Members have acknowledged, that transport has come out of the spending review in a far stronger position than many expected. Among those who made that point were the hon. Member for Cheltenham (Martin Horwood) and my hon. Friends the Members for Pudsey, for Thurrock (Jackie Doyle-Price) and for Ealing Central and Acton (Angie Bray).

The Government want to break away from the recurrent pattern of spending squeezes of past years when, more or less inevitably, the axe fell first and hardest on transport infrastructure projects. As my hon. Friend the Member for Milton Keynes South (Iain Stewart) acknowledged, transport has been given a high priority in the spending review, which reflects the economic benefits that can be generated by investing in our transport infrastructure. Cutting waste, reforming the welfare system and scaling back lower priority programmes has enabled us to prioritise spending in order to boost long-term economic growth. That includes an extensive programme of investment in the nation’s transport infrastructure. As the hon. Member for Cheltenham said, it also recognises the importance of addressing climate change by supporting programmes to decarbonise mobility and travel.

I turn to a matter that was of huge importance to many who spoke this afternoon, albeit from different perspectives. That, of course, is balancing the needs of the various parts of the United Kingdom. My hon. Friend the Member for Cleethorpes (Martin Vickers) made a passionate plea for priority for north Lincolnshire and for the needs of peripheral regions. As ever, my hon. Friend the Member for Pudsey made a case for Yorkshire; those of my hon. Friends who represent Yorkshire constituencies always make articulate representations in transport debates. My hon. Friend the Member for Ealing Central and Acton pointed out the benefits that can accrue to the whole of the UK through investment in the capital’s infrastructure, as it is a major generator of economic growth.

We have a clear commitment to rebalance our economy; we are committed to addressing the north-south divide; and we are clearly committed to dealing with the challenges faced by regions such as the north-east, which have a particularly strong dependence on jobs in the public sector. In making our decisions on transport spending, we sought to take account of those priorities and commitments, as well as the competing needs of the different regions. We can never come up with a solution that pleases everyone, but we have made great efforts to be fair, and we are proceeding with a number of major schemes in the English regions, many of which are in the north.

The hon. Member for Liverpool, Riverside rightly emphasised the importance of local involvement in prioritising transport projects. It was not possible to get the entire local enterprise partnership decision-making process up and running in time to influence and inform the decisions that we had to make in the CSR. We have to get on with those projects, as many have argued. We could not stand still and wait for the new structures to be created, so we depended on the advice of the older structures—the regional ones. When taking future decisions on transport priorities, we will seek to engage with local stakeholders and LEPs as soon as practicably possible. We cannot just wait for five years and not engage locally. As soon as the LEP structure is up and running, we will seek to engage LEPs in our transport decisions.

[Jim Fitzpatrick]

Forgive me, I should know the answer, but do LEPs cover the whole country, or only parts of it?

[Mrs Villiers]

I understand that all local authorities will have the opportunity to set up LEPs, but I am not an expert in how the process works. As has been acknowledged, there is a good case for LEPs getting together, so that we can consider transport matters across a wider area. It obviously makes a great deal of sense to consider units such as travel-to-work areas, which may be considerably larger than the LEP areas themselves. LEPs working together will be constructive.

[Mrs Villiers]

As soon as LEPs are up and running, we will engage with them about our decisions on transport projects. If there are gaps in the LEP map, we will engage with the local authorities in those areas that are not covered by LEPs and take on board their views and concerns.

The hon. Member for Cheltenham mentioned reform of the appraisal system. As he acknowledged, we have made efforts to reform the New Approach to Appraisal system to put a more realistic price on carbon, and to address the anomalous emphasis on additional fuel duty revenues for the Exchequer being discounted from the overall cost of the project. Further reform is planned, but it is important to reform the system so that we have a more realistic assessment of the carbon impact of different transport choices because we want to choose the projects that are consistent with our climate change goals.

The Chairman of the Transport Committee expressed concerns about emergency towing vehicles. Ship salvage is a commercial matter between a ship’s operator and the established salvage industry, and we have every confidence that there is capacity in the salvage industry to support ships in difficulty from September 2011 at commercial rates.

As for rail, it is very clear that we have had to take a difficult decision on fares. Of course, I wish that we could have avoided that, but the scale of the deficit that we inherited severely constrains our choices. Without the three years of retail prices index plus 3% increases that we announced, it simply would not be possible to deliver vital capacity improvements that passengers need.

The hon. Member for Liverpool, Riverside emphasised the importance of rail services in tackling climate change; I agree and that is why we have made such a major commitment to investment in rail. She also emphasised the importance both to passengers and taxpayers of getting value for money from the railways. She asked me to pre-empt the publication of the McNulty review. I had better not do that, but she will appreciate that one of the key problems that has been identified across the industry is the mismatch between incentives. Aligning incentives more effectively between the train operators and those responsible for maintaining and running the tracks is one possible way in which we can start to reduce costs in the rail industry and put our railways on a more sustainable financial footing. That is essential if we are to deliver value for money for passengers.

The hon. Lady also called for more transparency around fares; there is scope for that. Greater efforts are under way to ensure that consumers know exactly what deals are available. Increasing consumer understanding of the range of rail fares is an important goal. She also recognised that some fares are considerably lower than in past years. That is not something that one would recognise from reading the papers, but lower fares are out there, and increasing numbers of passengers are taking advantage of them. That said, we understand the concerns of many commuters about rail fares. As I have said, we have been forced into a difficult decision by the deficit that we inherited.

We have seen a shift in departmental priorities. Rail has come out much better from the spending review than other transport programmes. The programme of rail capacity upgrades is extensive—arguably, the most extensive in modern history. Crossrail is going ahead according to its original scope. Despite all the scare stories, there has been no announcement that the limbs will be amputated. We expect services to be phased in from 2018 across the Crossrail network. Savings worth some £1 billion have been identified through addressing risks and undertaking an engineering-led review of the most cost-effective way to deliver the central section, including lengthening the delivery time by around a year. We continue to work with Crossrail Ltd, the Mayor and Transport for London to optimise the scheme’s value for money.

My hon. Friend the Member for Ealing Central and Acton emphasised the importance of pressing ahead with work on the new stations. I am pleased to hear that she will be able to see the station designs for Ealing Broadway soon. Our goal is to keep up the pressure to ensure that we meet the delivery timetable that has been set.

The Chairman of the Transport Committee expressed concern about the position of TRANSEC and the budget allocated to transport security. There will be reductions of 25%, but it is well worth emphasising that the total industry spend on aviation security is more than £350 million. The bulk of the spending on aviation security is made by the industry because it delivers aviation security on the ground. She will appreciate that the 25% reduction that was discussed in the Committee yesterday relates to departmental activity, which is the overview, the policy, and the regulatory and supervision aspects. The savings are deliverable without compromising security outcomes. We recognise that maintaining passenger safety and security is of paramount importance. Administrative reform and reorganisation—rationalising certain training programmes, having to target our research programme and reducing some of our network of aviation advisers around the world—will enable us to deliver those savings without compromising passenger security.

[Jim Fitzpatrick]

Will the right hon. Lady confirm that the 25% savings will not have a negative impact on security because of redundancies or early retirements?

[Mrs Villiers]

The shadow Minister makes an important point about the reductions in head count that need to be made not just at TRANSEC but across the board. In making those decisions, it is a top priority to keep hold of the people whose skills are most vitally needed. That is the case with TRANSEC and across the Department.

Subject to the outcome of a rigorous and comprehensive consultation, our plan is to proceed towards construction of a new high-speed rail line, connecting London and Birmingham, and then on to Manchester and Leeds. My hon. Friend the Member for Milton Keynes South emphasised the importance of getting the route right; I completely agree with him, which is why we will have an extensive consultation. He also talked about the importance of getting right the connections to airports; I agree on that and work is under way on those issues. We need to look at not just Heathrow but Birmingham airport and then Manchester airport to see how we can connect them effectively to the new high-speed rail network.

The hon. Member for Liverpool, Riverside emphasised the importance of ensuring continued investment in the conventional network alongside high-speed rail; I agree and that is what we have committed to do. The coalition has also confirmed £2.1 billion to fund Network Rail’s station improvement programme, which includes £650 million to complete the work on transforming Birmingham New Street into a gateway worthy of the UK’s second city.

Schemes are also going ahead to improve the passenger experience at King’s Cross and Gatwick airport stations. The funding has been confirmed for the works under way at Reading, which will improve reliability across the whole of the Great Western main line. Work on the Midland main line will deliver faster and more reliable journeys in the east midlands and South Yorkshire. Improvements on the east coast main line will improve journeys in the north-east and Scotland.

Funding has been confirmed for vital rail freight improvements between Southampton and the west coast main line, and between Felixstowe and Nuneaton. I welcome the support from the hon. Member for Liverpool, Riverside on that issue.

[Jim Fitzpatrick]

I just wanted to ask the right hon. Lady about the impact of the changes at TRANSEC on ports. Obviously, most people associate TRANSEC with aviation and airports. There is no specific reduction in respect of that transport mode. Regarding shipping and interconnectivity, can she tell us what the spend is for upgrading the freight lines from ports?

[Mrs Villiers]

Regarding the changes at TRANSEC, in making the efficiencies that we have to make, of course we will fully take on board any impact on ports and shipping. Obviously, the bulk of TRANSEC’s work and the bulk of its funding tends to be focused on aviation, but that does not mean that we should underrate the importance of ensuring that we maintain high levels of security for our ports and shipping, too.

Regarding the rail freight upgrades, we are committed to carrying forward work on the strategic freight network. I always think that that is one of the programmes on which the previous Government did some of their best work. There was a lot of engagement with the industry to focus on those upgrades that would have the biggest economic impact and that would have the most impact on taking freight off the road and on to rail.

The comprehensive spending review announced electrification of the railways between Preston, Blackpool, Manchester and Liverpool. Work will also go ahead to improve journey times on the crucial route between Liverpool, Manchester and Leeds. The hon. Member for Liverpool, Riverside asked me to ensure that careful monitoring was undertaken to ensure delivery. Of course it is absolutely right that she should ask that and I know that the Office of Rail Regulation will be very focused on keeping Network Rail to its timetable. She also asked if electrification would be accompanied in due course by new rolling stock. Yes, of course—there is no point electrifying a railway unless there is some rolling stock to use on it. So that improvement will be part of the improvements that we want to see in the north-west.

This morning, the Secretary of State informed the House that funding for Thameslink had been confirmed. Thameslink will virtually double the number of north-south trains running through London. To reduce risks, we have lengthened the delivery programme, so completion is now expected in 2018. My right hon. Friend also gave the green light for the addition of 650 carriages, which will address some of the worst overcrowding hot spots around the country. Those carriages will be in service by March 2014 and they are in addition to the 800 net additional carriages for Thameslink and for Crossrail.

Several points were made in the debate about rolling stock; I think that we heard from several hon. Members about the importance of introducing more rolling stock. I listened with interest to the references to discussions on the Leeds trolley bus by my hon. Friend the Member for Pudsey. I am not able to give him a “yes” today, even though it is his birthday, but he has made his representations very strongly. I also took on board the statements he made about the Leeds rail proposal, which includes Kirkstall Forge. Officials at the Department for Transport will continue to work with the sponsors and the local authorities to see how best we can make progress on that proposal. He will appreciate that it is one of those schemes that is in with a chance of funding, and we will certainly do our best to work constructively with the people who I know passionately support the project.

This morning, the Secretary of State also confirmed a programme of electrification on the Great Western line between London, Didcot, Oxford and Newbury. An announcement on the extent of further electrification on the Great Western line will be made in the new year, alongside our final decision on the inter-city express programme. My right hon. Friend confirmed to the House that we have ruled out wholesale refurbishment of the High Speed 2 inter-city 125 fleet as the solution to the IEP problem. We will buy a new inter-city train fleet. After careful consideration of the Foster report on the IEP, the Government have narrowed down the options to just two: first, Agility’s revised proposal for a fleet of electric and bi-mode trains; and secondly, procuring a fleet of electric trains that would be hauled by new diesel locomotives at the end of the electrified network. I want to emphasise that both these options allow us to retain through journeys to destinations beyond the electrified network, including through journeys to Inverness and Aberdeen, which I know will be warmly welcomed by colleagues, including the hon. Member for Cheltenham who mentioned such journeys in his remarks.

I turn now to the points made this afternoon about roads and local transport. We propose to drive efficiency and reform at the Highways Agency by appointing a non-executive chair and a performance-monitoring group. Our goal is to reduce the cost of delivering a national road network that is in a safe and serviceable condition, and to deliver a more efficient traffic officer service that prioritises traffic management.

The Chairman of the Select Committee specifically referred to the A14 and her concern was that we had essentially sent that project back to the drawing board. I think that the cost of the project had simply got out of control. We were not convinced that it was the best way to deal with the problems on that transport corridor. We need to think more imaginatively about those types of programmes, to see if there is a more cost-effective alternative, and I think that the work that we are doing on the rail freight routes between Felixstowe and the west Midlands will also make an important contribution to addressing issues around the A14.

[Jim Fitzpatrick]

I will give the right hon. Lady another opportunity to have a sip of water. She mentioned that a more efficient Highways Agency will look at trying to achieve better traffic management. Does she accept that the other major role of the Highways Agency is about traffic safety, particularly in relation to foreign heavy goods vehicles? They have been a big concern to the Transport Committee and to colleagues right across the country. The enforcement regime at the Vehicle and Operator Services Agency allows these vehicles to be pulled aside, and the new regulations that we introduced only last year allow these vehicles to be impounded and not moved without either the necessary repairs being effected or insurance documentation and other documentation being produced. I hope that she is not saying that that regime will suffer as a result of moving the emphasis to road management as opposed to road safety.

[Mrs Villiers]

I will come on to road safety in a moment, but it remains an extremely high priority for the Government. However, the shadow Minister makes a key point about the importance of enforcement in relation to overseas-run HGVs. We will continue to put a priority on those enforcement mechanisms. I cannot give him the precise figures. Across the board, we will be looking to do things in a more efficient way, but if we can, we will prioritise resources to help us to deal with that very significant problem—I agree with him that it is a major problem.

The hon. Member for Liverpool, Riverside also asked whether there was a departure from road-widening and building towards more of a traffic management approach, including a managed motorway approach. I think that there is some truth in that. We want to make greater use of a managed motorway programme as a more cost-effective way to deliver more capacity. Regarding road improvements, our focus is on trying to target the worst traffic bottlenecks, because remedying those bottlenecks will deliver the greatest economic benefit. So we recognise that making better use of our existing road capacity should be a very important part of our strategy.

We also need to look, in a balanced way, at whether we can address a transport problem by using a public transport outcome. We need to look afresh at the way that we approach the national roads programme overall.

The Chairman of the Select Committee also expressed concern about cuts in the budget allocated to road maintenance. We are continuing to allocate very significant funds to road maintenance at both a national and local level. However, we recognise the need to deliver more for less. Safety is, of course, paramount. However, the road network is one of the nation’s most valuable economic assets, so we must ensure that we spend appropriately to maintain it in a good condition. Nevertheless, we feel that better commercial management and better contracting can lead to considerable savings, and we feel the same is true of making the most of collective national buying power, encouraging local authorities to link up together so that they can build their buying power, and reviewing some of the technical standards to extend the life of assets. All those methods are ways to cut costs without compromising safety.

However, there is no doubt that we have had to take some difficult decisions about spending on both local and strategic roads. To help local authorities to deal with spending reductions, we will cut red tape to give them more freedom to make their own decisions. We are carrying out a radical simplification and reform of local transport funding. Our plan is to move from 26 grant streams to four, beginning in 2011-12. That will include £560 million for local sustainable transport projects, including Bikeability cycle training.

Several hon. Members discussed buses. The hon. Members for Cheltenham and for Liverpool, Riverside expressed concern about the reduction in the bus service operator grant commencing in 2012-13. I understand their concerns; that was probably one of the most difficult transport decisions in the CSR. I hope that they recognise that the reduction is far less severe than many predicted. We argued the case passionately with the Treasury. We recognise how crucial bus services are to people on a wide range of incomes and in a wide range of areas, which is why we put the case so strongly in the CSR in order to get a fair outcome on buses.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mrs Villiers]

With all such schemes, the process of assessing value for money is ongoing. The scheme is conditional on the planning process, which is the proper opportunity for the hon. Lady’s constituents to make their voices heard and express their concerns about what will happen. It is not for me to pre-empt the planning process in this debate.

Several hon. Members mentioned the Dartford crossing. The hon. Member for Cheltenham was concerned about the nature of the charges. They were converted by the previous Government to congestion charges; the charges originally imposed related to the construction costs of the bridge. My hon. Friend the Member for Thurrock expressed her concern about the increase in tolls. Again, that is unfortunately another melancholy consequence of the fiscal crisis that we face. Tolls could help us fund a new crossing, which, as the shadow Minister said, would generate significant benefits to the economy and relieve congestion. We continue to work to address the congestion problems and flow of traffic on the Dartford crossing, and that work includes a commitment to lifting the barriers in extreme cases where they are causing congestion.

My hon. Friend the Member for Thurrock also expressed concerns about junction 30 of the M25. As I emphasised, the project has not been cancelled but postponed. There is a good chance that it will go ahead, and the Highways Agency will continue to work on that. She has put on record her concerns about how important it is, not least because of the need to transport Hellmann’s mayonnaise and Fairy liquid around the country. She is no doubt a strong campaigner for the interests of her constituent.

[Jim Fitzpatrick]

I intervene only because one group of constituents who have not been mentioned are long-suffering West Ham fans from south and west Essex, who must fight their way across the M25 to get to Upton Park every other Saturday.

Oral Answers to Questions

Jim Fitzpatrick Excerpts

Thursday 22nd July 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mike Penning]

I thank my hon. Friend for bringing this subject up. It is ever so important that we encourage more people to take up cycling, particularly young people, but at the same time, we must not scare them off by trying to force them to wear helmets, recognising the peer pressure on them. The Department ensured straight away that all its videos, DVDs and anything it broadcasts on the internet do not feature children under 16 without a helmet. That is the sort of message we need to send. Compulsion would be almost impossible to enforce, but we need to work to educate more young people to wear helmets.

[Jim Fitzpatrick (Poplar and Limehouse) (Lab)]

On enforcement and the increase in cycling in recent years, which is set to continue because of the previous Government’s investment, is the Minister holding discussions with his colleagues at the Department for Communities and Local Government and the Home Office on policing cyclists? I am referring particularly to the minority of dangerous cyclists who get the rest of us a bad name by cycling on pavements and breaking the basic rules of the road. How will we enforce safe cycling?

[Mike Penning]

Any cyclist who breaks the law and gives the former Minister a bad name needs to be brought before the courts. We see such behaviour on a regular basis, particular in urban areas and at lights, where people ignore the Road Traffic Acts. The police should enforce the rules on cyclists the same as they would on any other road user. The law needs to be used.

Oral Answers to Questions

Jim Fitzpatrick Excerpts

Thursday 17th June 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hammond]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. When considering airport expansion, we must look at not only the economic benefits but the local environmental burdens and the impact on this Government’s and the previous Government’s commitments to CO₂ reduction.

[Jim Fitzpatrick (Poplar and Limehouse) (Lab)]

I, too, welcome the Secretary of State to his new position. I also welcome his comments about undertaking a review of aviation policy in the south-east because that suggests that the economic case has not been forgotten. Does he agree that, as my right hon. Friend the Member for Delyn (Mr Hanson) said, when there is spare capacity in Paris, Schiphol and Frankfurt, and Dubai has built six runways, we run the risk of being disadvantaged not only by the rest of Europe, but by being bypassed by planes flying straight to the Americas from Asia through Dubai?

[Mr Hammond]

Heathrow is Britain’s premier hub airport and we intend to ensure that it remains a major hub airport. We want to work with business and other stakeholders to ensure that Heathrow becomes better, not bigger, and that we protect its status.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Speaker]

I call Richard Harrington. It appears that not only was I unaware of the grouping of questions 12 and 15, but the hon. Member for Watford (Richard Harrington), whom the grouping directly affects, was also unaware of it, as he is not present.

[Jim Fitzpatrick (Poplar and Limehouse) (Lab)]

Does the Minister not accept that the very good progress made in recent years in reducing the number of deaths and injuries on our roads is partly due to speed cameras, and that the income generated has been less than the money spent by the Government on speed cameras? Will he consider the introduction of more average-time distance speed cameras and making the existing speed cameras less conspicuous?

[Mike Penning]

The hon. Gentleman, a Minister in the previous Government and a former firefighter, is well aware of how speed cameras can protect the public. As a former firefighter myself, I know that speed has been part of the reason for many road traffic accidents, but not the sole reason for them. The growth of speed cameras has been so great that the public are concerned about whether they are there for safety or to raise money for the Treasury. The Government will not put any more money in; if local authorities want to do so, that is okay. Intermittent and average speed cameras are in use, particularly on motorways, and are an excellent way of easing congestion on our motorways.

Crossrail

Jim Fitzpatrick Excerpts

Thursday 3rd June 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mr Nick Raynsford (Greenwich and Woolwich) (Lab)]

I am grateful, Mr Deputy Speaker, for the opportunity to raise a matter that is of great importance not only to my constituency, but to the whole of London and for the future prosperity of our economy. Although I have sought this debate because of its significance to my constituency and to London, I should also draw attention to my interests recorded in the register.

Crossrail is vital to London and the wider economy. If London is to continue to be a world-leading city, it needs continuous investment in infrastructure. The tube network alone will not be able to cope with the projected increase in passenger numbers over the coming decades, and investment in cross-city links is imperative.

Crossrail will alleviate the already congested public transport service in central London and relieve the bottlenecks that are already an issue at national rail termini, particularly at Paddington, with its connections to Heathrow, and in the east of London, at Liverpool street. Perhaps most importantly, Crossrail will draw together areas of the city that have the capacity to house the work force needed to keep London’s financial and commercial hubs expanding and at a pace that keeps London, and the British economy, competitive on a world stage. It will add no less than 10% to London’s existing rail capacity, and bring 1.5 million people within a 60-minute commuting time from the centre of our capital.

Estimates of the economic and transport benefits of Crossrail are compelling. It is projected that in 2026 alone, London as a whole can expect to reap benefits of £1.24 billion in 2008 prices. Over the next 60 years, the Mayor of London’s transport strategy estimates some £36 billion of value would be added to the economy in today’s prices. Seen in these terms, it is clear that Crossrail is an economic imperative from which our capital and our country will derive real benefits for decades to come.

[Jim Fitzpatrick (Poplar and Limehouse) (Lab)]

I congratulate my right hon. Friend on securing this important debate. I am grateful that he has begun his contribution by outlining the importance of Crossrail to the whole of the UK economy, because I was concerned when I read the debate’s title—“Crossrail and its importance to South East London”—on the Order Paper. This is not just a south-east London, east London or even London issue; as he has started to argue, this is a matter for the UK economy. London will choke without Crossrail, and I am grateful that he is going to develop his argument further.

[Mr Raynsford]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for that observation, which I entirely support and agree with, although I am obviously going to focus on some of the specific concerns for my constituency in south-east London. However, he is right that there are benefits in his constituency—Canary Wharf is one of the major station sites—for London as a whole and, indeed, for the whole country.

The benefit is not limited to boroughs with immediate station access to the network. My borough of Greenwich is projected to benefit in 2026 by £84 million, but other boroughs, such as Barnet—the Minister’s borough—will see projected benefits in excess of £30 million in that year. Given the importance of the scheme, it might appear surprising that it has taken so long to reach the construction phase. The concept has been around for decades, but as the Minister will be aware, the project has had to go through many hoops to get where we are today.

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[Mrs Villiers]

My hon. Friend has made a strong point. We need to concentrate on the work that is going on, rather than on the speculation and scare stories that have appeared in parts of the London media.

The work under way at Canary Wharf station already provides a clear example of innovative engineering techniques that have offered significant savings without compromising delivery. We need to learn from that example when delivering other key elements of Crossrail. I know that Crossrail Ltd is committed to the highest standards of procurement practice to bear down on costs and ensure that the project remains affordable, and that must continue to be a key goal for the Crossrail team as progress is made towards letting contracts later in the year.

[Jim Fitzpatrick]

I welcome the Minister to her new position, and congratulate her on her appointment. Some of us expected to see her as Secretary of State—but hey, she has plenty of time, and I am sure she will get there in due course.

The Minister referred to the building of the station at Canary Wharf. My understanding is that Canary Wharf undertook the funding of that development. This reinforces the point made by the hon. Member for Cities of London and Westminster (Mr Field). The private sector has put its money where its mouth is. The question that my right hon. Friend the Member for Greenwich and Woolwich (Mr Raynsford) and other Labour Members have been asking is whether the Government are as committed as the private sector.

[Mrs Villiers]

As I have said, we support Crossrail and are committed to it. The project is going ahead. It is vital to ensure that all assumptions about the risk that the scheme involves are tested rigorously by Crossrail Ltd to ensure that those risks are properly identified and reflected in cost estimates, and so that sensible steps can be taken to reduce them. The latest innovative value engineering techniques have the potential to reduce costs significantly, and Crossrail Ltd has already been able to identify 18% savings in overall indirect costs through measures such as reducing administrative and staff costs and renegotiating IT contracts.