Autumn Statement

Debate between Jeremy Hunt and Baroness Keeley

Wednesday 22nd November 2023 Commons Chamber

[Jeremy Hunt]

I have had many discussions with my hon. Friend on this issue and he is absolutely right. There is a danger with over-zealous regulation that people are focused more on cost than on performance. Like him, I want to resolve the issue.

[Barbara Keeley (Worsley and Eccles South) (Lab)]

The Chancellor talked about the creative industries but then announced only that he would look at improving film and high-end TV tax credits. The cultural tax reliefs continue to help our orchestras, theatres, museums and galleries to survive, and they protect jobs. At the 2023 Budget, he extended the uplifted rate of relief until March 2024, after which it will taper, but sadly he also introduced changes to limit what cultural organisations can claim for. Orchestra tax relief is a critical source of income; without it, some orchestras say they could fold, with musicians losing their jobs. Will he look not just at film and high-end TV tax credits but at all the cultural tax reliefs and how they can continue to support jobs in our creative industries?

[Jeremy Hunt]

Having only just delivered the autumn statement I do not want to pre-empt what might be in the spring Budget, but there will be another fiscal event before the end of the financial year in which all these things will be looked at. With respect to orchestras, which are fantastically important to our cultural landscape, I will just say that the typical person playing in an orchestra will get a £450 increase in post-tax pay next year, and that will help them greatly.

Autumn Statement

Debate between Jeremy Hunt and Baroness Keeley

Thursday 17th November 2022 Commons Chamber

[Jeremy Hunt]

I am very happy to confirm both those points. I have park homes in my own constituency.

[Barbara Keeley (Worsley and Eccles South) (Lab)]

From his time as Chair of the Health and Social Care Committee, which we are hearing about plenty in this statement, the Chancellor knows that NHS England spends a ludicrous amount on detaining autistic people and people with learning disabilities in inappropriate and often substandard in-patient care. I know the Chancellor understands this.

[Jeremy Hunt]

indicated assent.

[Barbara Keeley]

He is nodding. He himself said, during the Committee’s inquiry into this issue, that the level of community provision is totally inadequate. Will he listen to himself again and commit to looking into this issue with the Health and Social Care Secretary, so that we are no longer throwing money away on substandard care when autistic people and people with learning disabilities could be living happier lives in the community?

[Jeremy Hunt]

The hon. Lady and I have talked about these issues many times and may I just say, across the political divide, that it has been a privilege to work with her on social care issues and to see the concern she has in public and in private about all these issues? I agree that it is a scandal that we have so many people detained in secure accommodation who could be in the community. I absolutely will work with my right hon. Friend the Health Secretary to see what can be done.

Economic Update

Debate between Jeremy Hunt and Baroness Keeley

Monday 17th October 2022 Commons Chamber

[Jeremy Hunt]

I am, I think, one of only two Chancellors to have been Health Secretary, so I am very aware of the pressures in the NHS. I am not making any commitments, but when it comes to the NHS the whole country wants to make sure that it can cope not just with winter crises but with the pressures we have had since covid. We will look at that very carefully, but I would also like to see reform in the way NHS funding is spent, because I think we can do better with the large sums that we spend already.

[Barbara Keeley (Worsley and Eccles South) (Lab)]

After the Government’s disastrous mini-Budget, I heard from a constituent, a single person first-time buyer who had been saving to buy a home for seven years and can no longer afford a mortgage. She described that as a kick in the teeth. What does the Chancellor of the Exchequer say to my constituent and all those ordinary people across the country battling price rises, struggling with increased mortgage costs and having their pensions hit by the effects of three weeks of instability caused by the economic incompetence of the current Prime Minister and her Government?

[Jeremy Hunt]

We have listened to her concerns and we have changed our policies as a result. Also, in fairness, the rise in interest rates is not just because of actions taken by the UK Government in the past few weeks but because of global factors, and we will do everything we can going forward to shield people like the hon. Lady’s constituent from those global factors, but we cannot do everything.

NHS Funding Bill

Debate between Jeremy Hunt and Baroness Keeley

Legislative Grand Committee & 3rd reading: House of Commons & Legislative Grand Committee: House of Commons & Programme motion: House of Commons & 3rd reading & Programme motion
Tuesday 4th February 2020 Commons Chamber

[Jeremy Hunt]

My hon. Friend has huge experience of this in local government, and he is absolutely right. The big surprise for me when we were conceiving of the children and young people’s Green Paper was the willingness of NHS professionals to accept that the people who know the kids best are their teachers, rather than GPs, because the teachers see them every day and are probably going to be better at spotting a mental illness and being able to do something about it.

[Barbara Keeley (Worsley and Eccles South) (Lab)]

I would like the right hon. Gentleman to consider whether he supports an important proposal that we put forward at the general election. It was that there should be a trained counsellor in every school to spot mental health problems. Putting that burden on to teachers and others in the teaching profession is the wrong way forward. In Wales, we have the experience that having trained counsellors in schools relieves the pressure on CAMHS. If we want to take children’s mental health seriously and relieve the pressure on CAMHS, we should do this. I have a couple of schools in my constituency that have trained counsellors, and it really helps. The other thing that we proposed was to have a mental health hub in every local authority area, so that children and their families in crisis would have somewhere to go where there would be professionals and charities that work in mental health. Those ideas that we put forward really should be considered, and I wonder whether the right hon. Gentleman supports them.

[Jeremy Hunt]

They are both interesting ideas. The plan at the moment is that resource will be given to schools for a teacher to volunteer to devote a proportion of their time to this, and that there will be funding for them to do so, similar to the way in which schools have a special educational needs co-ordinator who is a teacher devoted to the special needs of the pupils in that school. I personally would have no objection if that were a separate counsellor, but this needs to be a resource inside the school—someone who is regularly at the school and who knows the children there. That is the important thing.

With permission, Dame Rosie, I would like to comment on some of the other amendments and on some of the comments made by the hon. Member for Ellesmere Port and Neston. He rightly talked about the issues around maternity safety, and I agree that it is vital that we continue the maternity safety training fund. That is not directly the subject of one of his amendments, but it is indirectly connected to it. Twice a week in the NHS, the Health Secretary has to sign off a multi-million pound settlement to a family whose child has been disabled for life as a result of medical negligence. What is even more depressing is that there is no discernible evidence that that number is going down. The reason for that is that when such tragedies happen, instead of doing the most important thing, which is learning the lesson of what went wrong and ensuring that it is spread throughout the whole country, we end up with a six-year legal case. It is impossible for a family with a child disabled at birth to get compensation from the NHS unless they prove in court that the doctor was negligent. Obviously, the doctor will fight that. That is why we still have too much of a cover-up culture, despite the best intentions of doctors and nurses. This is the last thing they want to do, but the system ends up putting them under pressure to do it. That is why we are not learning from mistakes. I am afraid that that is the same thing that was referred to in the Paterson inquiry report that was published today: the systemic covering up of problems that allowed Mr Paterson’s work to carry on undetected for so long. The hon. Member for Ellesmere Port and Neston is absolutely right on that.

I think it is a fair assessment of safety in the NHS to say that huge strides have been made in the past five or six years on transparency. It is much more open about things that go wrong than it used to be, and that is a very positive development. But transparency alone is not enough. We have to change the practice of doctors and nurses on the ground, and that means spreading best practice. Unfortunately, that is not happening, which is why, even after the tragedies of Mid Staffs, Morecambe Bay and Southern Health, we are facing yet another tragedy at Shrewsbury and Telford—I see my hon. Friend the Member for Telford (Lucy Allan) in her place, and she has campaigned actively on that issue. The big challenge now is to think about ways to change our blame culture into a learning culture.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Jeremy Hunt and Baroness Keeley

Tuesday 19th June 2018 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hunt]

I thought that the report made powerful reading, and I know that my hon. Friend was associated with it. Yesterday the Prime Minister was straightforward about the fact that, if we are to preserve our NHS and make it one of the best systems in the world, the burden of taxation will need to increase, and she was willing to listen to the views of colleagues about the most appropriate way in which that should be done.

[Barbara Keeley (Worsley and Eccles South) (Lab)]

The Association of Directors of Adult Social Services has reported a £7 billion reduction in adult social care funding since 2010, and Age UK has reported there are now “care deserts” in some parts of the country. There are 1.2 million older people living with unmet care needs, and one in five care services has the poorest quality ratings from the Care Quality Commission.

As well as a long-term funding solution for social care, we need the extra £1 billion this year and £8 billion in the current Parliament that Labour pledged before last year’s general election. However, all that the Government offer is a delayed Green Paper. When will the Secretary of State deal with the current crisis in social care?

[Mr Hunt]

No, that is not correct. Yesterday we made very clear our support for the social care system and our recognition that reform of the NHS must go hand in glove with the social care system, and we said there would be a new financial settlement for the social care system. It is also time that the Labour party took some responsibility for the financial crisis that made all these cuts necessary.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Jeremy Hunt and Baroness Keeley

Tuesday 8th May 2018 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hunt]

My hon. Friend makes an important point: unless we make it easier for trusts to retain the receipts of property transactions, they will be likely to sit on these properties and we will not get the positive ideas such as that suggested earlier by the hon. Member for Ilford South (Mike Gapes), so we do need to find a way to make sure that local areas benefit when they do these deals.

[Barbara Keeley (Worsley and Eccles South) (Lab)]

The Alzheimer’s Society estimates that at least 10,000 people with dementia have been stuck in hospital in the last year despite being ready to leave, and many of the delays were caused by a lack of care in the community for them. There can be no more disorientating thing for a person with dementia than being stuck in hospital when they do not need to be there. So with dementia awareness week approaching, is it not time for the Secretary of State to meet the social care needs of people with dementia fully by meeting the funding gap for social care in this Parliament?

[Mr Hunt]

Let me explain what is happening on that front. In the first five years after 2010, social care funding went down by 1.3% a year—we had a terrible financial crisis that we were trying to deal with—but since then, in the current spending review period, it is going up by 2.2% a year, which is an 8% real-terms increase over this spending review period. I completely agree with the hon. Lady that we need to do a much better job. [Interruption.] Opposition Members talk from a sedentary position about priorities; our priority has been to get this economy on its feet so that we can put more money into the NHS and social care system, and that is what will continue to happen under a Conservative Government.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Jeremy Hunt and Baroness Keeley

Tuesday 6th February 2018 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hunt]

It is a fantastic charity. The boy concerned would have been 19 very shortly. It is a very sad story. I thank my right hon. Friend for her campaigning on this issue. We do indeed need to ensure that we have atrial fibrillators everywhere necessary to prevent these tragedies.

[Barbara Keeley (Worsley and Eccles South) (Lab)]

I welcome the review that the Health and Social Care Secretary has just announced. I also welcome the addition of social care to his role and the Government’s belated realisation that social care should be a Cabinet-level role, as Labour recognised with its shadow Cabinet in 2010. Yesterday, the Alzheimer’s Society reported that care homes were turning away people with advanced dementia—or even evicting them, sadly—because care providers do not get enough money from local authorities to cover the cost of their care. Will the Health and Social Care Secretary now be arguing with Treasury colleagues for the funding that is so badly needed to ensure that people with dementia are not evicted from care homes due to a lack of funding?

[Mr Hunt]

The hon. Lady always speaks powerfully about the social care system. One of the key parts of the social care Green Paper that we are currently working through is on market stabilisation. We have seen a number of care homes go under, although the number of beds overall has remained broadly stable, but our particular concern is, as she rightly points out, people in the advanced stages of dementia who might not be able to get the care that they want. This is a key focus of our work.

Health

Debate between Jeremy Hunt and Baroness Keeley

Monday 16th October 2017 Ministerial Corrections

[The Secretary of State for Health (Mr Jeremy Hunt)]

Today is World Mental Health Day and the whole House will want to congratulate Time2Change on its 10th anniversary and the remarkable change in attitudes towards mental illness that it has helped to bring about. Our mental health workforce has increased by 30,000 since 2010 and another 21,000 posts are planned.

[Barbara Keeley (Worsley and Eccles South) (Lab)]

The Secretary of State’s claim that thousands of extra mental health staff will be appointed by 2021 is fanciful unless he tells us how they will be funded. Today, the Care Quality Commission reports that mental health services are struggling to staff wards safely. We have also learned recently that two out of five mental health staff have been abused or attacked by patients in the past year. Most blame staff shortages for that violence. Rather than telling us about recruiting for 2021, what is the Secretary of State going to do today to protect staff from violence?

[Mr Hunt]

Let me tell the hon. Lady what has happened in mental health. Some 30,000 more people are working in mental health today than when her Government left office—a 5.8% increase in clinical staff.

[Official Report, 10 October 2017, Vol. 629, c. 143-45.]

Letter of correction from Mr Hunt:

Errors have been identified in the responses I gave to Questions to the Secretary of State for Health.

The correct responses should have been:

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Jeremy Hunt and Baroness Keeley

Tuesday 10th October 2017 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hunt]

My hon. Friend is right to draw attention to the issues around Southern Health, which will have directly affected a number of her constituents. That organisation is being turned around. However, she is also right to say that too many people are travelling out of area for their treatment. We have record numbers of children’s beds commissioned, but in the end this is about the capacity of the system of trained psychiatrists, psychologists and therapists, which was why we announced the extra 21,000 posts.

[Barbara Keeley (Worsley and Eccles South) (Lab)]

On World Mental Health Day, may I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Washington and Sunderland West (Mrs Hodgson) for wearing yellow for #HelloYellow on behalf of our team?

The Secretary of State’s claim that thousands of extra mental health staff will be appointed by 2021 is fanciful unless he tells us how they will be funded. Today, the Care Quality Commission reports that mental health services are struggling to staff wards safely. We have also learned recently that two out of five mental health staff have been abused or attacked by patients in the past year. Most blame staff shortages for that violence. Rather than telling us about recruiting for 2021, what is the Secretary of State going to do today to protect staff from violence? [Official Report, 16 October 2017, Vol. 629, c. 4MC.]

[Mr Hunt]

Let me tell the hon. Lady what has happened in mental health. Some 30,000 more people are working in mental health today than when her Government left office—a 5.8% increase in clinical staff. On top of that —she asked about money—we have committed an extra £1 billion a year by 2021 so that we can employ even more people. We are the first Government to admit that where we are now is not good enough. We want to be the best in the world; that is why we are investing to deliver that.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Jeremy Hunt and Baroness Keeley

Tuesday 4th July 2017 Commons Chamber

[Barbara Keeley (Worsley and Eccles South) (Lab)]

Today is the sixth anniversary of the publication of the Dilnot commission’s report on the funding of social care. In those six years, Ministers have legislated for a cap and a floor on care costs, and then abandoned those measures. They brought forward disastrous proposals in their manifesto for what became known as the “dementia tax”, and they appear to have abandoned those measures, too. Will the Secretary of State confirm that those policies have indeed been abandoned? Will he tell me, and more than 1 million people with unmet care needs, when he expects to have some new proposals for reform?

[Mr Hunt]

I have great respect for the hon. Lady, because she campaigns consistently on this issue, but I do not think that what she says is a fair reflection of what has happened. In the last year of the previous Labour Government, 45,000 people had to sell their home to pay for their care costs, whereas this Government have made it the law that no one has to sell their home. There is more work to do, but we have made important progress and will continue to do so.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Jeremy Hunt and Baroness Keeley

Tuesday 21st March 2017 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hunt]

I am happy to congratulate the Cellar Trust, and to pay a visit if I can find the time to do so. My hon. Friend is right to say that voluntary organisations play a vital role. Very often, they can see the whole picture and they treat the whole person, not just the specific NHS or specific housing issue, so he is right to commend its work.

[Barbara Keeley (Worsley and Eccles South) (Lab)]

Recent figures show that 18 mental health patients were placed more than 185 miles away from their home for treatment, including five from the northern region—Jess is one such example. Their families will have to travel the equivalent of Manchester to London, or further, to visit them. We have also learned that £800 million was taken out of CCG budgets, which could be funding services such as mental health in-patient beds, just to help NHS England balance the books. Will the Secretary of State tell those patients and families why they should be treated so far from home when their local CCG should be able to fund the in-patient beds they need?

[Mr Hunt]

With great respect to the hon. Lady, we are the first Government to count out-of-area placements, and to commit to eradicating them. What she does not tell the House is the context, which is the biggest expansion in mental health provision anywhere in Europe, with 1,400 more people being treated every single day, and an extra £342 million being spent this year on mental health compared with last year.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Jeremy Hunt and Baroness Keeley

Tuesday 7th February 2017 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hunt]

This is a very important issue because, as the hon. Gentleman knows, half of all mental health conditions are diagnosed before or become established before people are 14, and the sooner we catch them, the better the chance of giving someone a full cure. We therefore need to find a way whereby there is some mental health expertise in every primary school, so we can head off some of these terrible problems.

[Barbara Keeley (Worsley and Eccles South) (Lab)]

As my hon. Friends the Members for Bermondsey and Old Southwark (Neil Coyle) and for Liverpool, Wavertree (Luciana Berger) have already said, last night’s “Panorama” showed that mental health services are not funded properly. At the Norfolk and Suffolk mental health trust funding cuts led to community teams being disbanded, a loss of staff and the loss of in-patient psychiatry beds. Most disturbing of all is to hear parents talk of what happens to their children when they are denied support in a crisis—when they are self-harming or suicidal but there are no in-patient beds. One parent called it a “living nightmare”. We do not need any more warm words from this Secretary of State—we need action to make sure that mental health services are properly funded and properly staffed.

[Mr Hunt]

Let me tell the hon. Lady what action is happening this year. The proportion of CCG budgets being assigned to mental health is increasing from 12.5% to 13.1%, which is an increase of £342 million. That is action happening today because this Government are funding our NHS.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Jeremy Hunt and Baroness Keeley

Tuesday 20th December 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hunt]

That is an excellent question. We are doing a number of things. First, we have the Stay Well this Winter campaign, which has a lot of advice to go out to his constituents and all our constituents about how to avoid things that can lead to their having to go to A&E. However, we also urge the public to remember that accident and emergency departments are for precisely that.

[Barbara Keeley (Worsley and Eccles South) (Lab)]

There was no new money from the Government for social care in the local government settlement—just a recycling of money from the new homes bonus to social care, and that is for 2017-18 only. Fifty-seven councils will actually lose funding owing to this recycling. Salford, which was recently praised by the Prime Minister for its integration of social care, will lose £2.3 million due to this inept settlement. Is it not time for the Secretary of State to accept that social care is in crisis and that his Government cannot just dump the issue of funding it on councils and council tax payers?

[Mr Hunt]

I do listen carefully to what the hon. Lady says, because she has campaigned long and hard for social care. However, with respect, I would say to her that she is ignoring one simple fact: there is more money going into social care now than would have been the case if we had followed her advice at the last election. What the Communities Secretary announced was £900 million of additional help over the next two years.

[Barbara Keeley]

The Government’s plans for funding social care look inept because they have tied care funding, which is related to need, to council tax and to deductions from the new homes bonus. Last week’s settlement was a pathetic attempt to deal with a funding gap of £2 billion for social care by recycling £240 million within budgets. The chief executive of the British Red Cross has described the social care crisis as

“a humanitarian crisis that needs urgent action.”

When is the Secretary of State going to take that crisis seriously?

[Mr Hunt]

The hon. Lady talks about council tax, but she does not call out Labour councils like Hillingdon, Hounslow, Merton and Stoke which complain about pressures in the social care system and then refuse to introduce the social care precept that could make a difference to their residents. We are taking the situation seriously. More was done this week and more will be done in future.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Jeremy Hunt and Baroness Keeley

Tuesday 11th October 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hunt]

I can do better than that, because I have said that I am prepared to go to the health centre. I remember a very good visit to Thornbury community hospital during the general election campaign. I understand what those at the health centre are trying to do and they are absolutely right to be thinking about how they can improve out-of-hospital services.

[Barbara Keeley (Worsley and Eccles South) (Lab)]

Will the Secretary of State look into the creation of a sideways move for a chief executive of a trust that was criticised for failing to investigate patient deaths? Six weeks after the special recruitment exercise by Southern Health, Katrina Percy has resigned from her advisory role, with a substantial 12-month salary payoff that has been signed off by the Department of Health and the Treasury. The campaign group, Justice for LB, has called that “utterly disgraceful” and I agree. Will the Secretary of State investigate?

[Mr Hunt]

I agree with the hon. Lady that the way this case was handled was by no means satisfactory. The truth is that it took some time to establish precisely what had gone wrong at Southern Health. As this House knows, because we made a statement at the time—I think it was an urgent question, actually—there was a failure to investigate unexplained deaths. I do not think the NHS handled the matter as well as it should, but we now have much more transparency and we do not have a situation where people go on and get other jobs in the NHS, which happened so often in the past.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Jeremy Hunt and Baroness Keeley

Tuesday 5th July 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hunt]

I recognise the important role that community hospitals play in many of our constituencies, and that role will change as we get better at looking after people at home, which is what people want. We can all be proud of significant progress on dementia in recent years. Dementia diagnosis rates have risen by about 50%—indeed, we think we have the highest diagnosis rates in the world. However, it is not just about diagnosis; it is about what happens when someone receives that diagnosis, and the priority of this Parliament will be to ensure that we wrap around people the care that they need when they receive that diagnosis.

[Barbara Keeley (Worsley and Eccles South) (Lab)]

The Health Secretary has just promised 5,000 new GPs, and GP Forward View mentions recruiting 500 GPs from overseas. I understand that Lincolnshire GP leaders are looking to recruit GPs from Spain, Poland and Romania. As we have heard, EU nationals who live in the UK and work in the NHS are seen by the Home Secretary as bargaining chips, which has made them incredibly nervous about their status. How successful does the Health Secretary think that that GP recruitment will be?

[Mr Hunt]

This is a time when all sides of the House should be seeking to reassure many people from other countries who do a fantastic job in our NHS that we believe they will have a great future here. The Home Secretary has prioritised doctors, paramedics and nurses in the shortage occupation lists, and in all countries that have points-based systems—look at what happens in Australia or Canada—the needs of the health service and health care system are usually given very high priority.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Jeremy Hunt and Baroness Keeley

Tuesday 7th July 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hunt]

My hon. Friend can tell them that when Labour Members opposed the Health and Social Care Act 2012, we were doing the right thing for patients, with 18,000 fewer managers, 9,000 more doctors and 8,500 more nurses, whereas the Labour party was posturing. We can see the results of that posturing in Wales, where more people wait for A&E, more people wait for their cancer operation, and 10 times more people are waiting for any kind of operation.

[Barbara Keeley (Worsley and Eccles South) (Lab)]

The Secretary of State talks about having similar levels of care, but we do not have similar levels of safe staffing around the country. Peter Carter has said about the decision on NICE:

“If staffing levels are not based on evidence there is a danger they will be based on cost.”

Is my hon. Friend the Member for Wirral West (Margaret Greenwood) not right? NHS England should reverse that decision and let the independent body be the judge of safe staffing levels.

[Mr Hunt]

I gently say to the hon. Lady that we will not take any lessons in safe staffing from the party that left us with the tragedy of Mid Staffs. We have recruited 8,000 more nurses into our hospitals because we have learned the lessons of the Francis report. The important lesson in the report is that it is not simply about the number of nurses; it is about the culture in hospitals and making sure that nurses are supported to give the best care. We want to learn those lessons as well.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Jeremy Hunt and Baroness Keeley

Tuesday 2nd June 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hunt]

I thank my hon. Friend for raising that case and I will happily look into it. That is a perfect example of why we need to change the way we look after people with long-term conditions, such as dementia, out of hospital. If we can improve the care that we give them at home and give better support to people such as that man’s wife, we can ensure that the kind of tragedy my hon. Friend talks about does not happen.

[Barbara Keeley (Worsley and Eccles South) (Lab)]

Unpaid family carers play a key role in the care of people with dementia, many with heavy caring workloads of 60 hours a week or more. Can the Health Secretary understand how fearful carers now are of talk of cutting their eligibility for carer’s allowance and will he fight any moves within his Government to do that?

[Mr Hunt]

I absolutely recognise the vital role that carers play and will continue to play, because we will have 1 million more over-70s by the end of this Parliament, and we need to support them. I hope that she will recognise that we made good progress in the previous Parliament with the Care Act 2014, which gave carers new rights that they did not have before.

Francis Report: Update and Response

Debate between Jeremy Hunt and Baroness Keeley

Wednesday 11th February 2015 Commons Chamber

[Barbara Keeley (Worsley and Eccles South) (Lab)]

May I support the suggestion from my right hon. Friend the Member for Leigh (Andy Burnham) to extend to social care the measures recommended by Sir Robert Francis? I know from my own casework how hard it is for a whistleblower in social care working for a small organisation to reveal issues of bad care. In addition, the Health Select Committee pointed out that many whistleblowers suffer in their careers, including in social care, lose their job and find it hard to find a new post, and it recommended that whistleblowers who are vindicated receive an apology and practical redress. Does the Secretary of State agree?

[Mr Hunt]

I agree with the hon. Lady’s argument. Just as poor care has been identified in hospitals, so we have seen terrible examples of things happening in residential care and of inadequate domiciliary care. It is more complex, because the delivery of social care is more diffuse, but one way to deal with this is through the proper integration of health and social care and the proper assessment of quality based on the entire package of care that people receive, not just in individual institutions but across the board. We are doing a lot of work on that.

NHS Major Incidents

Debate between Jeremy Hunt and Baroness Keeley

Wednesday 28th January 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hunt]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right to say that. It is why many people in the NHS will be so astonished to hear the shadow Secretary of State, who presided over a culture where precisely that kind of leaning from on high happened, making it difficult for people to make those local operational decisions in the interests of patients, now trying to make a political point. This was a local decision and it was confirmed today that Ministers had no involvement in it, and Labour should stop trying to score political points.

[Barbara Keeley (Worsley and Eccles South) (Lab)]

This Government caused confusion about decision making and accountability because of their reckless and expensive restructuring of the NHS. Now, to achieve what the Secretary of State wants to achieve, he has to resort to the sorts of measures we are discussing. We have had two major incidents declared in local hospitals in Salford in one week recently, and I have great concerns that this sort of guidance means that it is harder for clinicians to take the steps necessary to resolve the A and E crisis. They should not have to think about the issues listed in this document: politics and whether there is a risk of reputational damage. I do not want Salford Royal hospital and the Royal Bolton hospital thinking, “We can’t do this because of reputational damage.” This should be done entirely on the basis of clinicians’ reasoning.

[Mr Hunt]

That advice was issued in the west midlands, and not in Salford. The hon. Lady talked about the reorganisation. Well, that reorganisation means that we have been able to afford 82 more hospital doctors and 589 more nurses in her area, which is helping her constituents. Salford is one of the best examples of integrated care in the country, which is why any hospital declaring a major incident should think about the impact on the rest of the NHS locally. That is what the guidance says.

National Health Service

Debate between Jeremy Hunt and Baroness Keeley

Wednesday 21st January 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hunt]

The NHS is under pressure, so the hon. Lady will welcome the fact that Barnsley Hospital NHS Foundation Trust in her constituency has 34 more doctors and 74 more nurses, and that we are currently doing about 2,000 more operations every year for her constituents. Yes, there is pressure, but this Government are investing on the back of a strong economy so that we can put more money into the NHS and give her constituents a better service.

[Barbara Keeley]

rose—

[Frank Dobson (Holborn and St Pancras) (Lab)]

rose—

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Hunt]

Privatisation is one of the most pernicious fears that Labour is seeking to stoke up—not least because, as Secretary of State, the right hon. Member for Leigh allowed the decision to go through that Hinchingbrooke hospital should be run by the private sector. He has been running away from that decision faster than anything that anyone has seen before, because he is still trying to curry favour with the unions.

The companies on the shortlist for Hinchingbrooke hospital were Circle, Serco and Ramsay Health Care. He could have stopped that as Secretary of State, but he did not. He knows—[Interruption.] Those were the three bidders—the private sector-led bids. He could have stopped that process when he was Secretary of State, but he chose not to. That makes my point very well.

[Barbara Keeley]

The Secretary of State and the right hon. Member for Wokingham (Mr Redwood) asked what had changed. Under Labour, we did not have tendering for £1.2 billion of cancer and palliative care services, as we are seeing now in Staffordshire and Stoke, where the majority of those tendering are private companies. We did not have that.

[Mr Hunt]

What the last Government did, that was right, was to say that—[Interruption.] I am just saying what the last Government did right. The hon. Member for Worsley and Eccles South (Barbara Keeley) might want to hear this, because I do not usually compliment the last Government.

To bring waiting times down to 18 weeks, the last Government said that they would support the NHS by allowing the private sector to do some operations. We have continued that policy, not changed it. The result, the hon. Lady will be pleased to know, is that 6,000 more operations are happening every year in her constituency under this Government than in 2010.

For this Government, it is about the patients. That is why we increased the NHS budget; why we hired 9,000 more doctors and 6,000 more hospital nurses; why we are doing nearly 1 million more operations a year than four years ago, with fewer long waits than ever; why we have increased cancer referrals by half, saving an estimated 1,000 lives every single month; and why we have learned the lessons of Mid Staffs by putting in place safe staffing, having independent inspections and turning around six failing hospitals.

Patients say—[Interruption.] The right hon. Member for Leigh should listen to what patients say, because he did not do that when he was Secretary of State. Patients say that their care is safer and more compassionate than ever, with the independent Commonwealth Fund saying that under this Government, the NHS has become the best health care system in the world.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Jeremy Hunt and Baroness Keeley

Tuesday 13th January 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hunt]

I agree with that, and I hope that the hon. Gentleman will campaign to make sure that the Northern Ireland Executive put the extra money they have received as part of the Chancellor’s autumn statement into precisely that—good GP services for the people of Northern Ireland.

[Barbara Keeley (Worsley and Eccles South) (Lab)]

It is increasingly recognised that the causes of the A and E crisis include the closure of walk-in centres, such as the one in Little Hulton in my constituency and this Government’s savage cuts to council budgets, leading in Salford to 1,000 fewer people getting care packages funded this year. When will the Health Secretary start to take responsibility for his own Government’s policies and do something to ensure investment in social care to ease that pressure on A and E? The better care fund is not the answer.

A and E (Major Incidents)

Debate between Jeremy Hunt and Baroness Keeley

Wednesday 7th January 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hunt]

My right hon. and learned Friend speaks with a great deal of wisdom as someone who has occupied this post and he is absolutely right. All Health Secretaries face pressures of the kind we are going through now and face difficult winters. Winter is always a difficult time for the NHS and, as the Prime Minister said, we need a short-term plan to help—that is what our plan of creating about 5,000 extra front-line clinicians this winter alone is doing—but we must also consider the long-term plan. That involves finding a better way of looking after vulnerable older people other than through A and E departments—that means better care in the community, better support from GPs and better community services—and that is exactly what we are doing.

[Barbara Keeley (Worsley and Eccles South) (Lab)]

Bolton Royal hospital is one of the hospitals declaring a major incident. The context is as follows. The Little Hulton walk-in centre was closed, when it saw 2,000 patients a month. Salford city council had £100 million cut out of its budget, so 1,000 people this year are losing care packages. I have an elderly constituent who was admitted to Bolton Royal following poor care. It is obvious that those things are causing the problem. When will the Secretary of State take responsibility?

[Mr Hunt]

We take responsibility and I take responsibility for everything that happens in the NHS. Let me tell the hon. Lady what we are actually doing, because there have been some serious bed capacity issues in Bolton. Bolton has had £3 million this winter to help deal with those pressures, which has included £340,000 to spend on additional beds in the hospital supporting the A and E department and more than £100,000 to pay for additional staff in A and E. Overall, compared with in 2010, there are 114 extra doctors and 571 extra nurses. She should welcome that, rather than trying to make a political issue of it.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Jeremy Hunt and Baroness Keeley

Tuesday 25th November 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hunt]

I am a strong supporter of personal budgets. People who have complex medical needs want, above all, to have personal control over their own health care, and they will be extremely worried that the Labour party has now said that it wishes to abolish personal budgets.

[Barbara Keeley (Worsley and Eccles South) (Lab)]

With regard to reducing patient choice, can the Secretary of State explain the sudden move to remove dialysis from being regarded as a specialised commissioning service, which is of great concern to a constituent of mine who is a renal patient and to the renal community? Will the Secretary of State now agree to a proper consultation—not over the Christmas holidays—and will he think again about that risky move?

[Mr Hunt]

We hope to have a public consultation on the matter. We are not seeking to restrict access to dialysis—far from it. We want to make it easier for people to access those vital services, and we have been putting more money into the NHS budget because we recognise just how important they are.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Jeremy Hunt and Baroness Keeley

Tuesday 21st October 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hunt]

When I started speaking out about poor care in England—one of the first things I did in this job—those on the Labour Front Bench said that I was running down the NHS. The result of my speaking out is that we are turning around failing hospitals and have 5,000 more nurses on our wards. The NHS in England is getting safer and better, and we want exactly the same thing for Wales.

[Barbara Keeley (Worsley and Eccles South) (Lab)]

15. How many training posts for nurses were commissioned in England in each of the last three years.

NHS Services (Access)

Debate between Jeremy Hunt and Baroness Keeley

Wednesday 15th October 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hunt]

I will give way in a moment, but I want to make some progress.

I want to go through the arguments of the right hon. Member for Leigh in detail, but let me start with the elephant in the room: the massive financial pressure facing the NHS if it is to meet our expectations in the face of an ageing population. There are now nearly 1 million more people over 65 than when this Government came to office. Our economy then was nearly bankrupt. Despite those extraordinary challenges, this Government have been able to increase spending on our NHS—including on Leigh infirmary in the right hon. Gentleman’s constituency—because of our difficult decisions, which were opposed at every stage by the Labour party. Government Members know one simple truth: a strong NHS needs a strong economy.

On the day that unemployment fell below 2 million and the claimant count fell below 1 million, there was nothing in the right hon. Gentleman’s speech about the need for a strong economy to support our NHS and nothing about learning from the Labour Government’s disastrous mistakes, which were so bad that they were in fact planning to cut the NHS budget had they won the election. We should remember that countries that forgot about the deficit ended up cutting their health budgets—Greece by 14% and Portugal by 17%. [Interruption.] Well, these are the facts. We must never again in this country allow the poor economic decisions that have been the hallmark of every Labour Government in history.

[Barbara Keeley]

It is interesting that the Secretary of State is claiming credit for things where the data are based on Labour’s achievements with the NHS, while anything else is our fault. He talked about older people and the demographics of an ageing population, but what good does he think he is doing to that section of the population with £3.7 billion of cuts to social care? Particularly as we move to integration, how does he think that will help those people? In my local area, 1,000 people will lose their care package this year. How does he think that will help the NHS in Salford?

[Mr Hunt]

I will tell the hon. Lady what we are doing: we are integrating the health and social care systems through the Better Care fund—a £3.9 billion programme—which is something that Labour could have done in 13 years in office but failed to do. That will make a massive difference to the social care system. Let us move on to some of the detailed arguments.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Hunt]

That is the point. We get all sorts of rhetoric from Labour, but when we look at its record of running the NHS—whether its disastrous record in England previously, or its disastrous record in Wales today—we see the real face of Labour policies on the NHS, and no one should ever be allowed to forget it.

There has been a lot of discussion about reorganisation. The right hon. Gentleman criticised reorganisation as if it were the last thing in the world that a Labour Government would do, but the previous Labour Government had nine reorganisations in just 13 years. Following the conference season, we know that Labour wants to have yet another one by effectively abolishing clinical commissioning groups in all but name and making GPs work for hospitals. There is widespread opposition to that policy across the NHS.

The right hon. Gentleman has repeatedly claimed that the reforms have cost £3 billion, but the audited accounts show that the reforms will save nearly £5 billion in this Parliament and £1.5 billion a year thereafter. These are the words of the National Audit Office—[Interruption.] He should listen to this, because this is about an independent audit that relates to a key part of his case. These are the words of the National Audit Office in its 2013 report:

“The estimated administration cost savings outweigh the costs of the reforms, and are contributing to the efficiency savings that the NHS needs to make.”

Will he publicly correct the record and accept what the National Audit Office has said, which is that the reforms saved money? The man who is never short of a word is suddenly silent. I have the National Audit Office report here, so he can see for himself. The reforms saved money.

If the right hon. Gentleman wants to talk about wasting money, I am happy to do so. The management pay bill doubled under Labour, compared with a 16% drop under this Government. The private finance initiative schemes left the NHS with £79 billion of debt. The IT fiasco wasted £12 billion. We will take no lectures on wasting money from the party that was so good at wasting it that it nearly bankrupted the country, let alone the NHS.

[Barbara Keeley]

Will the Secretary of State give way?

[Mr Hunt]

I will make some progress.

The right hon. Gentleman said that the reforms have made it harder to access NHS services. The opposite is true. Scrapping the primary care trusts and strategic health authorities meant the introduction of clinical leadership, which he wants to abolish, and allowed the NHS to hire 6,100 more doctors and 3,300 more nurses. Those members of staff are helping the NHS to do 850,000 more operations every single year compared with when he was in office. How can he possibly stand before the House and say that access to NHS services is getting worse, when nearly 1 million more people are getting operations every year compared with when he was Health Secretary?

Ebola

Debate between Jeremy Hunt and Baroness Keeley

Monday 13th October 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hunt]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right that what happened in Dallas is of great concern. We need to listen to our colleagues in the Centre for Disease Control in the US as they try to understand exactly what happened. If they decide that we need to change the protocols for protecting health care workers, we will of course take that advice extremely seriously. At the moment, their scientific assessment is that there was a breach in protocol, not that the protocols were wrong. Until we identify what those breaches were, we cannot be 100% sure. We are working very closely with them and we have a good and close working relationship. We will update our advice to UK health care workers accordingly.

[Barbara Keeley (Worsley and Eccles South) (Lab)]

I thank the Secretary of State for the answers he has given so far, but my right hon. Friend the Member for Leigh (Andy Burnham) asked whether he was satisfied that all relevant NHS staff, including all GPs, know how to identify Ebola, know the precautions to take with patients presenting, and know the protocols for handling Ebola. I did not get a sense from the Secretary of State’s reply of how complete that knowledge is. He has talked a lot about receptionists, and that is important as they are in the front line of risk, but hospital cleaning staff and cleaning staff in GP practices are also at risk if such patients present.

[Mr Hunt]

The hon. Lady makes an important point, but I reiterate the point I made earlier to another hon. Member. The risk level to the UK general population remains low, so the measures we are taking are precautionary because of a possible increase in that risk level. As part of that, we are sending advice to everyone we think might be in contact with anyone who says that they have recently travelled to the Ebola-affected areas and who displays those symptoms. That is why alerts have gone out to hospitals, GP surgeries and ambulance services to ensure that they know the signs to look for and are equipped with that important advice.

Special Measures Regime

Debate between Jeremy Hunt and Baroness Keeley

Wednesday 16th July 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hunt]

I pay tribute to the staff in Stafford hospital. I also make the point that, even through the four years when those terrible examples of care happened in the hospital, much excellent care was happening, too, and the hospital had dedicated and hard-working staff. This has probably been tougher for them than for anyone else in the whole NHS. I thank my hon. Friend for the way in which he has campaigned for his local hospital. No one could have done more for their local services. I agree with him that we must implement the very detailed recommendations of the TSAs quickly and in full, and ensure that we give every bit of support necessary to both Stafford and UHNS to ensure that that merger works.

[Barbara Keeley (Worsley and Eccles South) (Lab)]

The Health Secretary talked about denial of the past, but that was a bit rich given that Conservative Ministers gave Jimmy Savile a managerial post at Broadmoor. He wants to think about that a bit more.

In view of the disgraceful care failures the Health Secretary detailed, I find it surprising that he relies on inspection to raise standards and ignores the obvious impact of cuts of £3.7 billion in social care budgets. Does he not see that inspection will not fix the parlous state of social care?

[Mr Hunt]

I am afraid that that is the difference between Government and Opposition Members. The hon. Lady says that there was denial over Jimmy Savile, but I stood at this Dispatch Box and apologised to relatives and members of the public for the mistakes relating to Jimmy Savile. I do not call that denial; I call it facing up to the past.

Of course, inspection is not the only answer, but the reason it was so wrong to abolish the expert-led inspections we used to have in social care is that the first step, if we are trying to improve standards, is at least to know where the problems are. Until we have those expert-led inspections, we will not know that. The next step is to work out how to solve the problems. We will be doing both.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Jeremy Hunt and Baroness Keeley

Tuesday 15th July 2014 Commons Chamber

[Barbara Keeley (Worsley and Eccles South) (Lab)]

T6. On nurse-patient staffing ratios, it has been reported in the Health Service Journal that out of 139 trusts surveyed, 119 failed to fill their registered day nurse hours, 112 failed to fill their registered night nurse hours and 105 failed to fill their registered nurse hours across day and night. Is it not time for Ministers and NICE to state straightforwardly that a ratio of one nurse to eight patients or better is the only way for patient safety?

[Mr Jeremy Hunt]

NICE has taken the sensible decision to issue its guidance. It does so independently, but we are not making it mandatory on the advice of the chief nursing officer and many other chief nurses across the country for the simple reason that if we have a mandatory minimum, that can become the maximum that trusts invest in and many wards need more than 1:8. That is why NICE’s guidance was so important today.

NHS Investigations (Jimmy Savile)

Debate between Jeremy Hunt and Baroness Keeley

Thursday 26th June 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hunt]

My hon. Friend has made an important point. Of course we need to co-operate very closely with the police service, and the Home Secretary is doing a huge amount of work to establish what needs to be done to increase conviction rates for sexual offences. The point for the NHS to consider, however, is that the disclosure and barring scheme will only work properly if NHS organisers comply with it—as they are obliged to do—and report incidents, because that enables other NHS organisations to find out about them. I am not satisfied that the levels of compliance are as high as they should be.

[Barbara Keeley (Worsley and Eccles South) (Lab)]

I feel that our concern for victims must lead us to ask whether the actions of Ministers, or managers in the NHS, caused the pain that they suffered. That is one of the things that we can still do. Beyond compensation, there is accountability, and there must be accountability.

I must tell the Secretary of State that I do not think it was enough for him to say that behaviour was indefensible. Colleagues of his were Ministers at the time of that behaviour, and they must be brought to book for their actions. I agree with my right hon. Friend the Member for Leigh (Andy Burnham): we should focus on the fact that that appointment of a disc jockey to a hospital position was not appropriate. In some respects, that individual would have carried more credibility because of his appointment, and that is why I think that accountability is important.

I also think that, in future, children and vulnerable patients must be protected from certain people who have access to wards. It is not good enough to talk about bureaucracy. Volunteers, celebrity fundraisers and business backers must be subject to checks before being given access to hospitals and to wards, and they must expect to be subject to those checks. The present arrangements must change.

[Mr Hunt]

We do need more robust checks. However, I can tell the hon. Lady that I have apologised to all the victims and have said that if some of the reasons given in the reports for Jimmy Savile’s appointment to one position were as the reports claim, that was indefensible. Moreover, the Secretary of State who was in office at the time has said that it was indefensible. I think that that is accountability.

Patient Safety

Debate between Jeremy Hunt and Baroness Keeley

Tuesday 24th June 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hunt]

I welcome the increase in nursing across the country, and I am surprised that Labour Members do not welcome it. When I started in this job they spoke constantly about nursing numbers, but I notice they have now stopped doing that. Although those numbers are an important first step, it is not possible to compare trust with trust at this stage because they are all self-reported numbers. Over the next months—certainly by next spring—we will go through all the figures ensuring that NICE-approved tools are used to fulfil them. We will then see how trusts are doing compared with each other, which will be useful to them.

[Barbara Keeley (Worsley and Eccles South) (Lab)]

As a member of the Health Committee, I am disappointed that the Secretary of State does not understand that being dragged to the House to answer an urgent question is not the same as coming here to make a statement. I would prefer to hear first in this House what the Government are doing.

The Secretary of State mentions the leadership of David Dalton and Salford Royal NHS Foundation Trust, but that leadership led to safe staffing levels, which he has not supported. A recent Nursing Times survey found that the majority of nurses said that their wards were dangerously understaffed. I hear from nurses who are working with ratios of 2:22, 2:24 or 2:28—that is the reality. Does he think it is time he apologised for cutting the number of nurses?

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Jeremy Hunt and Baroness Keeley

Tuesday 10th June 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Jeremy Hunt]

I can confirm that. What my hon. Friend said was profoundly important. There is not an automatic link between size and quality. We know that for certain types of treatment, there is huge benefit in centralising services, as has happened for stroke services in London, but other services can be delivered extremely well at smaller units, and we will continue to support those.

[Barbara Keeley (Worsley and Eccles South) (Lab)]

The Minister has just talked rather piously about spending NHS money on front-line services, but the NHS is spending £300,000 on a university secondment for a staff member who has left. How does he justify that sort of abuse?

[Mr Hunt]

I just point out to the hon. Lady that in the Queen’s Speech we made it clear that we are cracking down on inappropriate payments to people who leave the NHS, many of which are the result of contracts set up by her Government.

Health

Debate between Jeremy Hunt and Baroness Keeley

Monday 9th June 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mike Gapes (Ilford South) (Lab/Co-op)]

rose—

[Barbara Keeley (Worsley and Eccles South) (Lab)]

rose—

[Mr Hunt]

I am going to make some progress, and then I will give way.

The NHS is about more than just getting through difficult winters. Looking to the future, this Government will continue to take the bold steps necessary to prepare our NHS for the long-term challenges it faces. There are two key areas for action if we are to rise to this enormous challenge. First, we must never turn the clock back on Francis. The NHS will never live up to its founding ideals if it tolerates poor or unsafe care. The last Government presided over an NHS in which doctors or nurses who spoke out were bullied, in which problems at failing hospitals were brushed under the carpet and in which vulnerable older people were ignored and, tragically, on occasions, treated with contempt and cruelty. This Government have stood up for the patient, championing high standards with a new culture of compassionate care which is now transforming our health and care system.

--- Later in debate ---

[Jackie Doyle-Price (Thurrock) (Con)]

rose—

[Barbara Keeley]

rose—

[Mr Hunt]

I will give way to my hon. Friend because she is affected by Basildon hospital.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Hunt]

Despite the amount of work that has been done in the past year, there is still much to do to improve safety and care. According to a study based on case note reviews, around 5% of hospital deaths are avoidable. That equates to 12,000 avoidable deaths in our NHS every year, or a jumbo jet crashing out of the sky every fortnight. On top of that, every two weeks, the wrong prosthesis is put on to a patient somewhere in the NHS. Every week, there is an operation on the wrong part of someone’s body. Twice a week, a foreign object is left in someone’s body. Last spring, at one hospital, a woman’s fallopian tube was removed instead of her appendix. Last summer, the wrong toes were amputated from a patient. This spring, a vasectomy was given to the wrong man. To tackle such issues, we need to make it much easier for NHS staff to speak out when they have concerns. We need to back staff who want to do the right thing, and we are currently looking at what further measures may be necessary to achieve that.

Today, this Government vow never to turn back the clock on the Francis reforms, and I urge the shadow Health Secretary to do likewise when he stands up. Another vital set of reforms that we need to make if we are to prepare the NHS for the future involves the total transformation of out-of-hospital care. We know that prevention is better than cure and that growing numbers of older people, especially those with challenging conditions such as dementia, could be better supported and looked after at home in a way that would reduce their need for much avoidable and expensive care. This year, three important steps have been taken towards that vital goal. First, the new GP contract brought back named GPs for the over-75s—something that was so shamefully abolished by Labour in 2004. Older people often have chronic conditions that make continuity of care particularly important. However, Labour scrapped named doctors, and we are bringing them back.

We are also acting to break down the silos between the health and social care systems with an ambitious £3.8 billion merger between the two systems. The better care programme is, for the first time, seeing joint commissioning of health and social care by the NHS and local authorities, seven-day working across both systems and electronic record sharing, so that patients do not have to repeat their story time after time and medication errors are avoided.

[Barbara Keeley]

The Secretary of State touches on a couple of issues, including safety, but ignores one of the most important ones, which is nurse-to-patient ratios. A safe patient-to-nurse ratio has been adopted at Salford Royal, and it could be adopted elsewhere. He is now talking about the better care fund. There is no new money in that fund, and if he is worried about pressure on the NHS, surely he should think about the £2.68 billion that is being taken out of adult social care. In my local authority of Salford this year, 1,000 people will lose their care packages. How is that good for alleviating pressures on the NHS?

[Mr Hunt]

Perhaps I can reassure the hon. Lady on those matters. First, the better care fund is the first serious attempt by any Government to integrate the health and social care systems and eliminate the waste caused by the duplication of people operating in different silos. The Government require all trusts to publish nurse-staffing ratios on a website that will go live this month. It is an important, radical change, and we are encouraging trusts to do exactly what she says is happening in Salford. It is important to say that, where other Governments have talked about integration, we are delivering it. We are doing one more important reform: we are taking the first steps to turn the 211 clinical commissioning groups into accountable care organisations with responsibility for building care around individual patients and not just buying care by volume.

From next year, CCGs will have the ability to co-commission primary care alongside the secondary and community care they already commission. When combined with the joint commissioning of social care through the better care fund, we will have, for the first time in this country, one local organisation responsible for commissioning nearly all care, following best practice seen in other parts of the world, whether Ribera Salud Grupo in Spain, or Kaiser Permanente and Group Health in the US—[Interruption.]

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Jeremy Hunt and Baroness Keeley

Tuesday 25th February 2014 Commons Chamber

[Barbara Keeley (Worsley and Eccles South) (Lab)]

T4. Further to the answer given earlier to my hon. Friend the Member for Wansbeck (Ian Lavery), the lobbyist John Murray and an organisation funded by large pharmaceutical companies led a consultation and co-wrote a report for NHS England on the future of commissioning for £12 billion of NHS services. Will the Secretary of State tell the House whether it is now Government policy to have lobbyists and big drug companies drafting reports that directly influence the commissioning of NHS services?

[Mr Jeremy Hunt]

Let me say this to the hon. Lady: we have very clear rules, and for people who are involved in industry and have a self-interest we have important protections to ensure there is no conflict of interest. Let us be clear: the private sector has an important role to play in the NHS, but it grew far faster under the previous Government than it has done under this one. We are not going to take any lessons about being in hock to the private sector.

NHS

Debate between Jeremy Hunt and Baroness Keeley

Wednesday 5th February 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hunt]

I am afraid that my hon. Friend is absolutely right. Perhaps the situation is put into perspective when we know that those PFI deals are costing the NHS more than £1 billion a year: £1 billion that could have been spent on providing compassionate care and looking after patients with dignity and respect, but instead is having to finance Labour’s appalling mismanaged PFI contracts.

Let me return to the issues raised by the right hon. Member for Leigh. I think that a much more substantive argument relates to the things that he chose not to say. This is the day before the anniversary of the Mid Staffs report, and this is the day on which hospitals are finally putting behind them Labour’s appalling legacy of poor care. We have 14 hospitals in special measures—all of them, incidentally, with A and E departments—making encouraging progress after a very difficult year, with 650 additional nursing staff and 50 board-level replacements between them. Every single one of those hospitals had warning signs under Labour, but rather than sorting out the problems, Labour chose to sweep them under the carpet, sometimes because they had arisen during the run-up to an election. There are 5,900 more clinical staff in the NHS than there were a year ago, and there are 3,300 more hospital nurses than there were at the time of the last election. All those people are vital to the functioning of our A and E departments.

Bullying, harassment and intimidation were perhaps the ugliest features of Labour’s management of the NHS. Now we have seen courageous A and E whistleblower Helene Donnelly being given a new year honour, alongside brave campaigner Julie Bailey, who was literally left out in the cold when she came to lobby the right hon. Member for Leigh about poor care at Mid Staffs.

There is much to do—poor care persists in too many places—but with a new Ofsted-style inspection regime, in England but not in Labour-run Wales, we can at least be confident that poor care in A and E departments and throughout hospitals will be highlighted quickly, and not hidden away. We will keep people out of A and E departments in the first place—that is something to which the right hon. Gentleman referred—with the return of named GPs for the over-75s and integrated health and social care through the better care fund: precisely the joined-up, personal and compassionate care that was envisaged when the NHS was founded 65 years ago.

[Barbara Keeley (Worsley and Eccles South) (Lab)]

Was not one of the key points that Francis made about transparency? The Secretary of State is making claims about staffing numbers which are not recognised. Ministers have had the opportunity to go along with a better scheme of transparency in hospitals, whereby they display every day on the ward their staffing ratios—as Salford Royal does. The Secretary of State will not accept that, however. If he thinks that putting out the totals of staff once a month is an adequate way of dealing with the Francis recommendations, he is fooling himself.

[Mr Hunt]

We on the Government Benches will take absolutely no lessons about transparency in the NHS from Labour after what it did for so many years. I think what we are introducing is a huge step forward, because for the first time every hospital in the country will, as a minimum, have to publish their ward-by-ward staffing ratios every single month. They can publish more—they can do what Salford does—but for every hospital in the country to do that every month is a huge step forward.

Accident and Emergency

Debate between Jeremy Hunt and Baroness Keeley

Wednesday 18th December 2013 Commons Chamber

[Barbara Keeley (Worsley and Eccles South) (Lab)]

rose—

[Mr Hunt]

I want to make some progress on this because it was the central point of the shadow Health Secretary’s speech. The reason the 48-hour target was scrapped is very simple: access was getting worse, not better, under that target. On the right hon. Gentleman’s watch, the proportion of people getting an appointment within two days fell, while 25% of people who wanted an appointment more than two days ahead could not get one. They would call wanting an appointment for the following week and be told, “You can only get an appointment by calling less than 48 hours in advance.” But do not take it from me. This morning—

Care Bill [Lords]

Debate between Jeremy Hunt and Baroness Keeley

Monday 16th December 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hunt]

I am delighted to do so, Mr Speaker, and I know that you would think it was legitimate of me to hold the Labour party to account for its decision if it is voting against today’s Bill or declining to support it, as its amendment clearly states.

However, today is a day to rise above party political considerations, as Mr Speaker has just said, and recognise that putting these things right is overwhelmingly in the interests of patients. If the Labour party continues its stubborn refusal to support legislative underpinning for a new chief inspector of hospitals, which is in today’s Bill, how will it ever be able to look patients in the eye again? Perhaps the most shocking thing about Mid Staffs, which is one of the reasons we have so many provisions in the Bill, was not just the individual lapses in care but the fact that they went on for four long years without anything being done about them.

[Barbara Keeley (Worsley and Eccles South) (Lab)]

Will the Secretary of State give way?

[Mr Hunt]

I am going to make some progress.

When problems are uncovered, action must be swift. Robert Francis cited confusion over which part of the regulatory system is responsible for dealing with failing hospitals, so this Bill makes it clear where the buck stops. It is the CQC’s job to identify problems and instigate a new failure regime when it does so. Monitor and the Trust Development Authority will then be able to use powers to intervene in those hospitals, suspending foundation trusts’ freedoms where necessary to ensure that appropriate action is taken. If, after a limited period, a trust has failed significantly to improve, the Bill requires a decision to be taken on whether the trust needs to be put into special administration on quality grounds—and, yes, where necessary, a trust special administrator will be able to look beyond the boundaries of the trust and consider the wider health economy. As we know from Lewisham, that is not easy, but we will betray patients if we do not address failure wherever it happens.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Hunt]

As the hon. Gentleman knows, we considered that matter carefully. We decided that the best way forward is to strengthen the professional duty of candour on individual doctors and nurses through their professional codes. After extensive consultation, which was supported by the medical profession, including the British Medical Association, we decided that that was a better way of ensuring that we had the right outcomes and did not create a legalistic culture that could lead to defensive medicine, which would not be in patients’ interests.

If supporting the Francis measures in the Bill is too awkward or embarrassing for Labour Members, can they not see the merits in the parts of the Bill that deal with out-of-hospital care? I am talking about not just vulnerable older people, but carers, for whom we need to do more. We need to do much more to remove the worry that people have about being forced to sell their own home to pay for their care.

[Barbara Keeley]

rose—

[Mr Hunt]

I want to make some progress.

At Committee stage, we intend to table amendments to enable the creation of a £3.8 billion better care fund in 2015-16. That represents the first significant step any Government have ever taken to integrate the health and social care systems.

[Hazel Blears (Salford and Eccles) (Lab)]

rose—

[Barbara Keeley]

rose—

[Mr Hunt]

I will give way in a moment, but let me make some progress first.

I commend the right hon. Member for Leigh (Andy Burnham) for championing integration, although he chose not to do anything about it when he was in office. How, then, when a Government take steps to do that for the first time, can he possibly justify not supporting it?

--- Later in debate ---

[Julie Hilling (Bolton West) (Lab)]

rose—

[Barbara Keeley]

rose—

[Mr Hunt]

I am going to make some progress.

Thanks to our reversal of Labour’s 2004 GP contract, vulnerable people over 75 will have an accountable, named GP responsible for making sure they get the wraparound care they require.

The collapse of Southern Cross showed the risks to people’s care when providers fail, so through the Bill we are introducing provisions to help ensure that people do not go without care if their provider fails, even if they pay for their own care. The CQC will monitor the financial position of the most difficult-to-replace providers in England to help local authorities provide continuity of care in a way that minimises anxiety for people receiving care.

We also need to improve the training of health care assistants and social care support workers. For the first time, health care assistants will have a new care certificate to ensure they get training in compassionate care and the Bill allows us to appoint a body to set the standards for that training. That means that the public can be assured that no one will be assigned to give personal care to their loved ones without appropriate training or skills. My hon. Friend the Minister of State, who is responsible for care and support, will have more to say on those elements of the Bill when he closes the debate and I thank him for his outstanding work on raising standards in that area.

We also need to address the funding of care. At the moment, people fear being saddled with catastrophic costs and even having to sell their home at the worst possible time to pay for their care. The Care Bill significantly reforms the funding of care and support, introducing a duty on local authorities to offer a deferred payments scheme so that people will not be forced to sell their homes in their lifetime to pay for residential care.

We will also introduce a cap on people’s social care costs, raising the means test at which support from the state is made possible and delivering on the recommendation of the independent Dilnot commission.

Mid Staffordshire NHS Foundation Trust

Debate between Jeremy Hunt and Baroness Keeley

Tuesday 19th November 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hunt]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right to focus on those pressures. We have been thinking about this very hard. Over the summer we announced £250 million to be distributed to the 53 A and E economies where the most difficulty is being experienced in meeting high standards for the public, and we are doing more. We are talking to the College of Emergency Medicine. Anything that my hon. Friend can do at a local level will be greatly appreciated. This is going to be a difficult winter and we need to stand full square behind our front-line staff.

[Barbara Keeley (Worsley and Eccles South) (Lab)]

The Secretary of State just said that Salford Royal hospital is one of the best hospitals in the country and we should learn from what it does. What it does is support minimum safe staffing levels for patients and then publish the actual-versus-planned staffing levels on the wards every day. Staffing levels published on websites is a little step forward, but it is not enough. Why do we not learn from what Salford Royal does? I do not think that patients and their families are interested in what the staffing levels were a month ago; they are interested in what they are today.

[Mr Hunt]

We have based our recommendation today precisely on what Salford Royal does. It uses the kind of model to ensure minimum recommended staffing levels on every ward that we want every hospital to use. We say that we want those data published monthly, but that is a minimum. Salford Royal publishes them every day, which is very impressive. Given that most hospitals are not using tools anything like as sophisticated as that, it will be a big step up for most hospitals to do that. We want to do it. What is significant about our announcement is that we want to assemble those data for every trust in the country so that they can be compared on a monthly basis and so that people can know how many wards and how many shifts are being safely staffed at their local hospital compared with neighbouring hospitals.

Urgent and Emergency Care Review

Debate between Jeremy Hunt and Baroness Keeley

Tuesday 12th November 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hunt]

I have to gently say to the hon. Gentleman that recruiting nurses from the Philippines did not happen for the first time under this Government. One reason why those nurse vacancies have gone up is that the Government decided to conduct a public inquiry into what happened at Mid Staffs. The system reacts to that by wanting to hire more nurses, and I think that he should welcome that, not criticise it.

[Barbara Keeley (Worsley and Eccles South) (Lab)]

The report by the Health Select Committee on the A and E crisis found that only 16% of hospitals had the right level of consultant cover in A and E. Yesterday, we learned that half the vacancies for senior A and E doctors are unfilled, as doctors move to work overseas. The issue of staffing in A and E has been understood for the past three and half years, and there have been repeated warnings and reports. What has the Secretary of State done to address it and make sure that A and E wards have sufficient staff cover?

[Mr Hunt]

Recruiting 300 more A and E consultants than when the hon. Lady’s Government were in power.

Accident and Emergency Departments

Debate between Jeremy Hunt and Baroness Keeley

Tuesday 10th September 2013 Commons Chamber

[Barbara Keeley (Worsley and Eccles South) (Lab)]

It appears that the Secretary of State is not listening to the Health Committee, which has looked into the issue. The Chair, the right hon. Member for Charnwood (Mr Dorrell), has made it clear that he does not think the 2004 GP contract is to blame for these issues, but we found out that only 16% of hospital trusts have the recommended level of emergency consultants, and we noted that nearly £2 billion has been taken out of adult social care. When will the Secretary of State deal with the staffing cuts and budget issues that are actually causing the A and E crisis?

[Mr Hunt]

My right hon. Friend said to the House that he largely agreed with the changes that I wanted to make to the GP contract. I always listen very carefully to what the Select Committee says, but I point out to the hon. Lady what Professor Keith Willett, who is the person at NHS England who is in charge of all A and E departments, said. He said that between 15% and 30% of the people attending A and E departments could be looked after by primary care. If we ignore that—I am afraid that what Labour did in 2004 has made the problem a great deal worse—we will not solve the underlying problems with A and E.

Hospital Mortality Rates

Debate between Jeremy Hunt and Baroness Keeley

Tuesday 16th July 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hunt]

I very much hope that that acquisition can proceed and I agree with my hon. Friend that it is the way forward. Although we have to ensure that that happens properly, Northumbria can give North Cumbria the leadership that it badly needs, so the process would be positive.

[Barbara Keeley (Worsley and Eccles South) (Lab)]

Since the publication of the Francis report, it seems that we have been going round and round the question of safe staffing levels, which I have raised several times. Ratios of two nurses to 29 patients, or worse, have been reported to me—I do not think that they are uncommon—and the CQC tells us that one in 10 hospitals has unsafe staffing levels. It must be accepted that the number of nurses has reached unsafe levels in these 14 hospitals and many parts of the country. The Secretary of State cited Salford Royal hospital, but will he act now to ensure that all wards in all hospitals publicise their staffing ratios, because I would not want a relative on a ward with a ratio of 2:29?

[Mr Hunt]

The right ratio of patients to nurses depends on the type of patients in a ward, because different wards have different requirements. Salford Royal has a good model through which it ensures that it has the right number of nurses. As I said to the hon. Member for Rotherham (Sarah Champion), I accept what Francis says about safe staffing, but he did not recommend the Labour party’s policy of minimum mandated national staffing levels. I am following the recommendation of the Francis report, which I think is the right way forward.

Care Quality Commission (Morecambe Bay Hospitals)

Debate between Jeremy Hunt and Baroness Keeley

Wednesday 19th June 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hunt]

That is the big culture change we need to see; we need to see Governments who are prepared, in all circumstances, however difficult and however politically inconvenient it is, to recognise that when there are safety issues, when there are terrible failures in care and compassion, we need to support the people who want to speak up, because if we do not do that, we will never root out these problems.

[Barbara Keeley (Worsley and Eccles South) (Lab)]

I support the comments made by my right hon. Friend the Member for Exeter (Mr Bradshaw). A real concern is being expressed by Members on both sides of the House, because a person committed this cover-up by deleting this report and we really want to know—there should be an investigation—whether they are currently working for the CQC or working in the NHS anywhere. It is vital to know that.

Today, the CQC’s chair has said that it is not currently capable of carrying out hospital inspections. The Health Secretary has talked about putting in place more specialist inspection teams, and I, of course, support that. However, CQC inspectors have had access to specialists for a long time—they have talked about it before the Health Committee—so if they are not using them, that is an issue to address. What measures will the Health Secretary put in place to ensure that from this day onwards—not at some future point—we can have the CQC competently carrying out inspections?

[Mr Hunt]

When the CQC was set up in 2009, it was decided, with full ministerial approval, to go for a generalist inspection model—a model where inspection was not carried out by specialists; the same people would inspect dental clinics, GP practices, hospitals and slimming clinics. That was the wrong decision to take. Making sure that we have enough specialist inspectors in place, with appropriate clinical expertise, takes time—it is a very big recruitment job—and that is what the new chief inspector of hospitals, Professor Sir Mike Richards, is now setting about doing. It is also expensive—it costs money—but he has said to me that when his teams are in place he will start those inspections before the end of this year. So we are going as fast as we possibly can to try to put these problems right.

A and E Departments

Debate between Jeremy Hunt and Baroness Keeley

Tuesday 21st May 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hunt]

My hon. Friend will be pleased to know that that actually happens in many places throughout the country, but we need to go even further. When it comes to the most frail, vulnerable older people, we need to commission services in a way that ensures that someone outside hospital knows what is happening with them the whole time, is accountable for their care and treatment, and can pre-empt the need to seek emergency care in the middle of the night. That will be the key to ensuring that the pressures on A and E are sustainable.

[Barbara Keeley (Worsley and Eccles South) (Lab)]

Today, the Health Committee heard that this Government’s cuts to social care were a direct cause of increased A and E attendances: patients cannot be returned home on time, and all the services that used to keep people well have been cut. This Government cut local authority budgets, resulting in £2 billion going out of adult social care. Will the Health Secretary now accept what the experts are telling us on the Health Committee: that that is the direct cause of the increased A and E attendances?

[Mr Hunt]

Once again, the Labour party opposes every single cut made by this Government then tries to pretend that it is serious about getting the deficit under control. On this point, I remind the hon. Lady that the NHS is giving £7.2 billion of support to the social care system for health-related needs, precisely in order to ensure that services are not compromised. Where they have been compromised, we are looking into it and we are disappointed about it, but we continue to monitor the situation and to urge local authorities to ensure that they discharge their responsibilities properly.

Health and Social Care

Debate between Jeremy Hunt and Baroness Keeley

Monday 13th May 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hunt]

I will make some progress, then take more interventions.

The Care Bill will allow for comprehensive Ofsted-style ratings for hospitals and care homes, so that no one can pull the wool over the public’s eyes as to how well or badly institutions are performing. The Bill will make it a criminal offence for any provider to supply or publish deliberately false or misleading information. We cannot legislate for compassion, but in a busy NHS, we can ensure that no institution is recognised as successful unless it places the needs of patients at the heart of what it does. The Care Bill will be a vital step forward in making that happen. That compassion should extend not just to patients, but to carers. The Bill will put carers’ rights on a par with the people for whom they care. They will have a right to a care assessment of their own and new rights to support from their local authority.

[Barbara Keeley (Worsley and Eccles South) (Lab)]

Is the Secretary of State as disturbed as I am that the Bill puts young carers backwards a step? Adult carers’ rights might be taking a step forward, but young carers’ rights are not. We must address that during the passage of the Bill.

[Mr Hunt]

We are not putting young carers backwards. We very much recognise their needs—and a children’s Bill will address their concerns in a way that I hope will put the hon. Lady’s mind at rest.

The second issue that we need to address for the NHS going forward is joined-up care. It is shocking that, in today’s NHS, out-of-hours GP services are unable to access people’s medical records; that paramedics and ambulances answer a 999 call without knowing the medical history of the person whom they are attending; and that A and Es are forced to treat patients with advanced dementia, who are often unable to speak, without knowing a thing about their medical history.

Mid Staffordshire NHS Foundation Trust

Debate between Jeremy Hunt and Baroness Keeley

Tuesday 26th March 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hunt]

My hon. Friend makes an important point. It is important that these assessments are made not just at an organisation level, but drill down into the different parts of a hospital, and we have taken that message on board from the Nuffield report on ratings. She is right that it is not just about resources, but sometimes it is about resources. Parts of a hospital can be understaffed when it comes to people who are required to perform basic and important roles in terms of care. Because it is a complex picture—and because numbers can be part of the problem, but are certainly not the whole problem—we want a chief inspector who will take a holistic view of every aspect of the performance of a hospital and be able to give proper feedback that a hospital can use to improve its performance.

[Barbara Keeley (Worsley and Eccles South) (Lab)]

May I press the Health Secretary on this point? I have raised several times the point that adequate staffing levels are crucial to patient safety and good care, but we seem to dodge around saying that it is a question of values, not of numbers. Francis said clearly that one of the issues was numbers. I have given examples of my local hospital, which views it as crucial that it has the right staffing mix, which it adjusts every single day, for the patients that it has. Will he stop avoiding this question and address it directly, because one in 10 hospitals do not have adequate staffing levels?

[Mr Hunt]

I am not avoiding it. I agree that adequate staffing levels are essential to patient care. I remind the hon. Lady that the shadow Health Secretary said to the Francis inquiry:

“I do not think that the Government could ever mandate a headcount in organisations. Whilst we could recommend staff levels, we were moving into an era when trusts were being encouraged to work differently and cleverly, and take responsibility for delivering safe care whilst meeting targets”.

Immigrants (NHS Treatment)

Debate between Jeremy Hunt and Baroness Keeley

Monday 25th March 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hunt]

Obviously, I want to ensure that as much money as possible goes to residents throughout the country by tackling abuse, and I would not want to minimise what the issue might be in Worcestershire. I stress, however, that the biggest problem we face is in big urban centres where there are large numbers of illegal immigrants, and we must get a grip of that problem for the sake of the elderly population in those cities.

[Barbara Keeley (Worsley and Eccles South) (Lab)]

If the Secretary of State is concerned to protect NHS budgets, why is he allowing a £2.2 billion raid from the Treasury? Is that not a much more serious cut in the NHS services we can pay for in this country?

[Mr Hunt]

If the hon. Lady is worried about that, perhaps she might like to complain to her own party leadership, which, during Labour’s last five years in office, had an average underspend in the NHS of £2 billion.

Accountability and Transparency in the NHS

Debate between Jeremy Hunt and Baroness Keeley

Thursday 14th March 2013 Commons Chamber

[Barbara Keeley]

Indeed. It is disturbing that the people responsible for advising Ministers on legislation are not aware of what is going on. In fact, they started by trying to tell me that they thought that community services were still expanding, as they had been up to 2010. They did not have a picture of the services. Indeed, they told us that there was no routine collection of waiting times for mental health services and they did not have data on readmissions. They did not even seem to understand the trends involved in those important issues.

The exchange left me feeling very concerned about accountability in our new NHS structures. If staff at the most senior levels of the Department of Health who are responsible for strategy and legislation have no idea what is going on in health services across the country, that is serious. The major restructuring of the NHS seems to us—this has been mentioned by fellow members of the Health Committee—to represent a decline in accountability.

We need to learn from good practice to improve patient safety, which has been touched on by my hon. Friends the Members for West Lancashire (Rosie Cooper) and for Walsall South (Valerie Vaz). A major review is taking place of the 14 hospitals with the worst mortality rates. In recent Health questions, I told the Under-Secretary of State for Health, the hon. Member for Central Suffolk and North Ipswich (Dr Poulter) that good practice in hospitals with low mortality rates should be investigated alongside the review of high mortality rates and poor practice in the worst-performing 14 hospitals. He did not take that point on board, so I will try again today.

I want to talk about what has been achieved at my constituency’s local hospital trust, Salford Royal NHS Foundation Trust. I visited the hospital recently in the wake of the Francis report and was impressed to hear what it has achieved over the past five or six years. It already seemed to have in place many of Robert Francis’s recommended actions, which I touched on earlier. Salford Royal has taken action on nurse staffing ratios, which my right hon. Friend the Member for Leigh (Andy Burnham) touched on; reducing MRSA infection and pressure sores; the transparency of patient information; and involving clinical staff in quality improvement.

[Mr Jeremy Hunt]

I completely agree with the approach that the hon. Lady is taking. One of the jobs of the new chief inspector of hospitals will be to identify the outstanding hospitals, the safest hospitals and the hospitals with the best compassionate care, so that other hospitals can learn to do the same things.

[Barbara Keeley]

That is very good. I hope that the Secretary of State will make that point to the Under-Secretary of State for Health, the hon. Member for Central Suffolk and North Ipswich, because he did not seem to appreciate it when I made it to him in Health questions.

Let me touch on what other hospitals might find if they start looking at the excellent practices at Salford Royal. I do not underestimate the importance of the terrible examples that we have heard about, but at the same time, my trust has had a quality improvement strategy since 2008, with specific projects that are aimed at reducing falls, unexpected cardiac arrests, surgical site infections, sepsis and other harms. Because harm tends to be caused to patients much more over the weekend—we have seen many examples of that in the cases that we have looked at—the trust has moved back to seven-day working in an attempt to achieve the same standard of care on the weekend and overnight as people receive on a weekday during working hours.

I believe that having the right nurse staffing ratios is vital to patient safety, but that issue keeps being glossed over by NHS leaders and Ministers. I have asked questions about it repeatedly in this House. Salford Royal uses a safe staffing tool to ensure that it works to safe staffing levels. There are minimum staffing requirements throughout the hospital and incident reports are completed if the ratios are not met. Each division reviews its staffing establishment every day and escalates concerns if the numbers fall below the minimum safe level. Salford Royal is a mentor site for nurse rounding which, as we have heard, means that nurses go round their patients each hour to ensure that their needs are being met.

My right hon. Friend the Member for Cynon Valley gave examples that showed the impact of hospital-acquired infections. All the work that is done to reduce MRSA and other infections is crucial. As in the other examples of flattened hierarchies that we have heard about, anyone at Salford Royal can challenge others on issues related to infection control. There is also mandatory training in aseptic non-touch techniques.

Teams design their own quality improvement projects in a clinical quality academy. There has been a specific quality improvement project over the past two years that is aimed at reducing the number of pressure ulcers. Each pressure ulcer is declared, the root causes are analysed and the patients are involved in the investigations. Nurses can monitor the positioning of patients on their hourly rounds and help to turn them if required. Those examples of good patient care can help us to get over the kinds of awful care that have been described today.

My final point is about transparency. Patients and families can check the harm data, because they are shown on a whiteboard at the entrance to every ward. The board records not only how many days it is since the last MRSA infection or pressure ulcer, but provides assessment scores on 13 fundamental nursing standards. Such public reporting to patients and families is important because it aids accountability and helps staff to feel accountable for the standards on their ward. We need that now more than ever.

Unsurprisingly, Salford Royal has achieved the highest rating in the NHS staff satisfaction survey for acute trusts in the NHS. Staff are supported to challenge existing systems and test new ideas to improve standards. I am aware of how much of a contrast that is to what we have heard this afternoon. The NHS is a system in which one area has had a catastrophic failure at all levels of patient safety, while other areas have achieved the highest standards of safety and patient care. We must look at both if we want to understand why that is.

Social Care Funding

Debate between Jeremy Hunt and Baroness Keeley

Monday 11th February 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hunt]

I absolutely agree with my right hon. Friend’s points; he speaks wisely, as ever. I, too, want to pay tribute to the work that my predecessor, our right hon. Friend the Leader of the House, did in laying the ground and making the big call that we needed to have the Dilnot commission, and in last year publishing the care and support White Paper, which moved this agenda much further forward than in any of the 13 years of the previous Labour Government. My right hon. Friend is also right about the fundamental randomness and unfairness. Of course, we are not saying that the Government will pay for all the social care costs we encounter—public finances could not possibly be in a state to allow that to happen. However, this provides certainty and allows people to plan, so that they can cope with the randomness and unfairness of the current system and know that it will not put their precious inheritance at risk.

[Barbara Keeley (Worsley and Eccles South) (Lab)]

At £75,000 the cap on social care is far too high to help people in an area such as Salford. The Secretary of State has talked about insurance products developing to help people meet the costs of the cap. In our inquiry into social care, we on the Select Committee on Health were told that this country has no market at all in long-term care insurance—not only that, but no country in the world has a working market in pre-funded long-term care insurance. Is it not wishful thinking of the highest order to talk about people being able to rely on products that do not exist either here or anywhere else in the world?

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Jeremy Hunt and Baroness Keeley

Tuesday 15th January 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hunt]

I am happy to do so, and I commend my hon. Friend for her campaigning, because if we invest properly in community health services, we can allow the frail elderly, who are among the biggest users of the NHS, to stay at home happily, healthily and for much longer. That must be a key priority for us all.

[Barbara Keeley (Worsley and Eccles South) (Lab)]

At the last Health questions, the Secretary of State told me:

“Every NHS bed is getting an extra two hours of care per week compared with the situation two years ago.”—[Official Report, 27 November 2012; Vol. 554, c. 122.]

Quoting national average nurse-patient ratios does not help to improve the patient experience, but cutting 7,000 nurses sure does affect it. We have unsafe levels of care in 17 hospitals. Will he treat this issue a bit more seriously and do something about those unsafe levels?

[Mr Hunt]

With respect to the hon. Lady, she cannot talk about alleged cuts in the NHS while her Front-Bench team support a policy of real cuts in the NHS budget. In the last Opposition day debate, the right hon. Member for Leigh (Andy Burnham) said that he thought it was irresponsible of the Government to increase the NHS budget in real terms. That means he wants a real cut in the NHS budget, which would make the staffing issues to which she referred much, much worse.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Jeremy Hunt and Baroness Keeley

Tuesday 27th November 2012 Commons Chamber

[Barbara Keeley (Worsley and Eccles South) (Lab)]

1. How many (a) health visitors and (b) nurses there were in the NHS in May 2010 and the latest month for which figures are available.

[The Secretary of State for Health (Mr Jeremy Hunt)]

The number of full-time equivalent qualified nurses and midwives employed in the national health service in England in May 2010 was 310,793, and in August 2012 it was 304,566. The number of full-time equivalent health visitors in May 2010 was 8,092 and in August 2012 it was 8,067, with an additional 226 health visitors employed by organisations not using the electronic staff record.

[Barbara Keeley]

I thank the Secretary of State for that answer. The recent Care Quality Commission report found that 10% of NHS hospitals did not meet the standard of treating people with respect and dignity, and underpinning that poor care were high vacancy rates and hospitals that have struggled to make sure they have enough qualified staff on duty at all times. That shows us the real impact of losing those thousands of nurses. So does he agree that it is urgent that this Government take action when understaffing in the NHS results in poor care?

[Mr Hunt]

I absolutely agree with the hon. Lady that nowhere in the NHS should allow low staff numbers to lead to poor care. What was interesting about the CQC report, which was a wake-up call for the whole NHS, was that institutions under financial pressure, as the whole NHS is, are delivering excellent care in some places and delivering care that is unsatisfactory and not good enough in other places. On her specific question about nurses and nurse numbers, it is important to recognise that across the NHS as a whole the nurse-to-bed ratio has increased. Every NHS bed is getting an extra two hours of care per week compared with the situation two years ago.