Welfare Cap

Jeevun Sandher Excerpts

Wednesday 29th January 2025 Commons Chamber

[Dr Jeevun Sandher (Loughborough) (Lab)]

Every person in this country should be able to live a decent life, but too many of us are unable to earn a decent wage. That is what is pushing up social security spending, leading to the motions that we are debating today. Too many people are forced to claim sickness benefits because the NHS has failed them; there are not enough well-paid jobs; and people do not engage with the social security system that the Conservative party left us, because it demonised and attacked them.

That left us as an incoming Labour Government with a choice between massive implementing cuts to social security this year and technically breaching the welfare cap. I am proud that this Government have chosen to breach that cap rather than drive people into destitution. I am proud that we will get people who want to work into work, and that we will change the system for the future to ensure that people are not left as they have been for the past 14 years. I am proud that this Government will ensure that every person has the support they need when they need it.

Our nation is sick, and things need to change—specifically, three things. First, our NHS needs to shift. After 14 years of mismanagement and the disastrous Lansley reforms, we have almost 3 million people out of work. We were the only G7 nation to see sickness rise during the pandemic and after it as well. Every single one of us sees that degradation and damage when we try to get an appointment with our local GP. That is what we need to fix in the years ahead.

Secondly, we must transform our low-pay, low-training economy, which does not provide enough good jobs or pay enough to live. Thousands of people are unable to turn on the heating because they cannot afford it, and thousands are unable to eat; nurses are forced to go to food banks. Around 70% of children in poverty are in working families, and being cold and hungry makes people sicker. Too many people in this country go straight from school into sickness; the number of young people in this nation who are too sick to be active in the labour market has almost doubled since 2013. Those are the problems that we will be fixing in the years ahead.

The third thing that needs to change, of course, is the punitive social security system that pushed people to the brink. When people could not see their GP, could not earn enough to live a decent life and were too scared to go to the jobcentre, they stopped working altogether. That has led us in this country into a toxic doom loop, with sicker people having less money in their pockets and becoming too sick to work, leading to higher social security payments. The amount we are spending on social security is a sign not of the former Conservative Government’s generosity, but of their failure. That is what we will be addressing in the year ahead.

The amount that we are spending on sickness and disability benefits has risen from £42 billion in 2010 to £65 billion today, and that is in real terms, not nominal terms. That is an increase of around 40% to 50%. That is why we will breach the cap by £8.6 billion this year, rather than impose devastating and swingeing cuts on those who already cannot afford to eat. We on the Labour Benches know that food banks are not an integral part of our welfare system; they are a symbol of failure. These are the things that we must change in the future.

We need changes not simply to policy but in attitudes. For 14 years it was said that every person who was failing to earn enough was somehow a skiver. That was wrong, and it drove those who needed to engage with the social security system not to engage with it at all. I used to work at the Department for Work and Pensions and I can tell the House that people on both sides—those who wanted to work and those who wanted to help people into work—were good people who were let down by a bad system.

[Chris Curtis (Milton Keynes North) (Lab)]

Somebody who works in my local jobcentre in Milton Keynes came to visit me last week and told me about his experiences. He currently has to conduct 10-minute appointments, and as a lot of that time is spent on admin, he is not able to give the necessary help and support to people who are desperate to find a job. Does my hon. Friend agree that it is really important that this Government, unlike the previous Government, focus on providing the support necessary to get people into work, rather than setting a narrative about people being workshy and not wanting to work, which is not the truth?

[Dr Sandher]

I could not agree more with my hon. Friend. Ten minutes is nowhere near enough time for people to get the job support they need. It is not enough for those who are seeking help or for those seeking to give that help, especially as the economy is changing and getting a well-paid job requires more training. The country changed before with the automative revolution, and it is now changing with the artificial intelligence revolution. Those people need support and help in order to get security, but they are not guaranteed it or given it at the moment, and that is the precise intention of the changes we are putting forward. It is not easy to put forward these changes and it will not take a short time, but by starting that work today and by changing the relationship between those who are seeking to give help and those who are receiving that help, we can ensure that those who need help will actually receive it.

This is not just about those on the ground who are doing great work, or indeed about my former brilliant colleagues at the DWP. It is also about how we in this House speak about those who need help, who are in poverty or who receive social security payments. We must understand that every single person in this country wants to work and wants the dignity that comes with it, but they are too often let down because of a lack of well-paid jobs, a lack of support and a lack of dignity afforded to them by a party that sought only to demonise. That is what we seek to change in this House and, indeed, in this country. That is the choice before us, and it is why we are making these decisions: a technical breach of the welfare cap this year and a more accurate welfare cap in the years ahead, so that we can begin to provide the support that people need.

[Kirsty Blackman]

People go to food banks because work does not pay and the two-child cap, for example, means that they do not have enough money to live on or to support their families. Why is the hon. Member supporting a welfare cap that bakes in the two-child limit?

[Dr Sandher]

I do not believe that the hon. Member is correct. The welfare cap does not define future decisions; the welfare cap in future years defines the total amount that will be spent at that time. We should be clear what the welfare cap refers to. She mentioned the two-child limit in particular, and Government Members have been clear that choices have to be made in straitened times. We know that children are driven into poverty and that no child deserves to be born into such circumstances. Indeed, we know about the huge and shocking rise in child poverty and child hunger in this country. I know that Members across the House are shocked by that, but the truth is that we cannot make every such decision in this House because these are straitened times. However, I appreciate the intervention and, indeed, the good faith in which it was made. There is a lot we have to change in this country, and I am sure we will do so in the years ahead.

The choice before us today is simple. The technical breach this year and the change in the years to come are the right choices, and we are making them for the right reasons. Many in work today cannot make it pay, and that is why we will make sure that people who are in work get the training they need. That is not just about the training they need to get a better job; it is about the support they need to ensure that their healthcare, and indeed their health, is good enough to continue working.

More broadly, we must ensure that every single person in the country can have a decent job that pays enough, and we are taking action in three areas to do that. First and foremost, there is our action on the NHS and through the Darzi review, because we should not live a country where almost 3 million people are too sick to work. We have offered thousands more appointments to get waiting lists down, because people who cannot see a GP today are far more likely to end up out of work tomorrow.

Secondly, we are helping people get into work. There are the 16 trailblazer programmes to join up work skills and health support, and the £115 million to help those with complex needs get back into work.

Thirdly, we are creating good jobs for young people with the youth guarantee, so that every single young person in this country can access the training they need and the apprenticeships they require.

The fundamental reforms the Chancellor set out in her speech today are also about supporting people into work so they can contribute to our economy, and do what they need to do to get a decent life for themselves and their family. Having a decent job and earning enough to live is about more than the pound in a person’s pocket; it is about a sense of contentment and something to talk about with their mates. It gives meaning to each day.

[Robin Swann (South Antrim) (UUP)]

The hon. Member has talked eloquently about the challenges of getting into the workplace. Does he realise that a large number of people across our society who are economically inactive have the desire to look for work and have welfare payments to support them getting into work, but sometimes through no fault of their own the system works against them?

[Dr Sandher]

I thank the hon. Member for that point. Indeed, that is the entire reason why we are changing the system today. Yes, it is about practical changes and providing more support, but it is also about a change of tone, a change of attitude and treating people like human beings. That is exactly what Labour Members believe.

These reforms and support, at their core, are about ensuring that every single person has a decent job, which gives them meaning and something to talk about with their mates. A previous Labour Government did that so well, and that is how we got poverty down. A previous Member for Sedgefield, who is a shining light for us on the Labour Benches, promised to end child poverty in a generation, and a previous Member for Dunfermline, who is a hero to us, put that into practice and reduced child poverty by almost a million. It is that Labour tradition to which I speak. That Labour tradition is why I am proud to stand here today, and that is why I am proud to vote in favour of these motions.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Judith Cummins)]

I call the Liberal Democrat spokesperson.